ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[Dee10]

Nate Eaton:
3:52
“Where do you guys go from here?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, we wait until we get our report from the FBI. That’s going to be critical…and…uh…We’re still asking the public, uh, to help us if they have any information.” http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?286501

09:36
SB: Well, I can tell you that all four people have taken polygraphs. I’m not willing to discuss um um the uh…the findings of those polygraphs at this point. Uh we’re um having some including the FBI look at the results just to give us uh their impression and uh, you know um those are difficult uh interviews and uh you know the polygraph uh experts uh, you know, sometimes they don’t agree, so…uh we’re looking at those real close and we’re doing a behavioral analysis based on their statements uh at the time of their interview. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?286501


Radio Interview KIDO radio's Kevin Miller interviewing Nate (reporter) - Aug 12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB1j...ature=youtu.be
- FBI searched their homes & vehicles & have their vehicles & homes returned to normal circumstances at this time (according to family)

 

[pepelepolecat]

I noticed in the news clip yesterday, the newsreader said that the parents were away from DeOrr for 20 minutes. So if no one had eyes on DeOrr for about 4 minutes (as was said in earlier interviews) does that mean they left DeOrr with grandpa, and then DeOrr spent about 15 minutes with grandpa, then grandpa was distracted for a moment and when he looked back little DeOrr was gone, but he assumed he had met up with his parents?

There have been so many times thrown out on this particular topic that I don't feel any of them are particularly reliable. That's not a judgment or insinuation or anything like that. I just think that maybe no one was really paying attention to the time and doing a lot of guesstimating.

 

[bessie]

I noticed in the news clip yesterday, the newsreader said that the parents were away from DeOrr for 20 minutes. So if no one had eyes on DeOrr for about 4 minutes (as was said in earlier interviews) does that mean they left DeOrr with grandpa, and then DeOrr spent about 15 minutes with grandpa, then grandpa was distracted for a moment and when he looked back little DeOrr was gone, but he assumed he had met up with his parents?

05:19
SB: And they turned and looked at their son and asked him if he wanted to stay with Grandpa or go with them, and he said, “Grandpa,” and started walking towards uh Grandpa. So, mom and dad go down over the creek with…with the friend. They start doing some fishing. Grandpa says he’s watching the child. He’s looking at him momentarily. He looks away, when he looks back the child is gone, and he assumes that the child has gone back down to mom and dad, because it’s just over…just over the hillside, just a little ways.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12122056#post12122056

 

[haven71]

Yes, that's what I recall. Nothing about the FBI "focusing" their investigation on behavioral analysis. And, the most recent comment from SB regarding the behavioral analysis was that the FBI still hasn't provided him with any and also that there is some evidence the FBI has said it CAN'T analyze.

I explained myself already, but maybe this will help you understand what I meant:

SB said that LE turned over items for behavioral analysis. So, it was whatever LE had up to THAT POINT that was turned over to the FBI. I was saying it sounded like what they were analyzing was focused on that. Focused on (evidence, behavior analysis, etc.?) that was from earlier in the investigation. I don't think that's such a wild leap to make.

I can't simplify what I mean any further. HTH.

 

[haven71]

Nate Eaton:
3:52
“Where do you guys go from here?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, we wait until we get our report from the FBI. That’s going to be critical…and…uh…We’re still asking the public, uh, to help us if they have any information.” http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?286501

09:36
SB: Well, I can tell you that all four people have taken polygraphs. I’m not willing to discuss um um the uh…the findings of those polygraphs at this point. Uh we’re um having some including the FBI look at the results just to give us uh their impression and uh, you know um those are difficult uh interviews and uh you know the polygraph uh experts uh, you know, sometimes they don’t agree, so…uh we’re looking at those real close and we’re doing a behavioral analysis based on their statements uh at the time of their interview. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?286501


Radio Interview KIDO radio's Kevin Miller interviewing Nate (reporter) - Aug 12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB1j...ature=youtu.be
- FBI searched their homes & vehicles & have their vehicles & homes returned to normal circumstances at this time (according to family)

Perfect, thanks!

 

[bessie]

4:58
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Ya’ know, personally, I think an abduction is one of the least likely events. Primarily, the information we have is…grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he’s gone, and he’s assumed he’s gone over the bank. Right where grandpa is sitting, he’s within 20-30 yards of the only roadway into the campground, and absolutely no one was seen at that lower campground coming or going, and when my personnel went in, nobody was seen leaving, so I think it, You know, I mean I can’t completely rule it out, but it’s one of the least likely things that occurred.”

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12007596#post12007596

 

[MJ1960]

How large of a store is the Stage Stop, do we know? Is there a deli there where Deorr got his fries? How many employees work there at the same time? I have 5 kids, and I cannot imagine stopping at a store like that for more than 15 minutes MAX. If it were a Walmart, that would be a different story. Also important to note, that why would they need to shop for 30 minutes? Camping, when planned, most likely wouldn't include a 30 minute stop to shop for food and tampons (or whatever they bought). In addition, isn't this the time and place that the clerk remembered having a conversation with the parents, but couldn't remember seeing Deorr? And that there was a possibility that someone saw him outside in the truck. With both parents inside the store, do you think they would be in there 30 minutes???

Yes, I do think it's a possibility. I have two kids under two. After a 40 minute drive, I'd probably have to do diaper changes in the car, and maybe a snack or a drink for them. Plus if going in, taking them out of their car seats, loading them into the stroller, going in, shopping, waiting in line, and getting back in the car. This is just what's average for us, personally. In Deorr's case, it's possible for them to have done a diaper change, plus shopping, plus waiting for fries, plus likely waiting in line because the clerk that day said it was very busy. She could have simply not noticed Deorr in a busy shop, on another note, for those of us here that are wondering why the parents were remembered by the clerk and not Deorr.

 

[Rayemonde]

4:58
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Ya’ know, personally, I think an abduction is one of the least likely events. Primarily, the information we have is…grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he’s gone, and he’s assumed he’s gone over the bank. Right where grandpa is sitting, he’s within 20-30 yards of the only roadway into the campground, and absolutely no one was seen at that lower campground coming or going, and when my personnel went in, nobody was seen leaving, so I think it, You know, I mean I can’t completely rule it out, but it’s one of the least likely things that occurred.”

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12007596#post12007596

Thanks, Bessie. I had assumed before that DeOrr had followed his parents right away whilst they were still in sight and so I thought it was highly unlikely someone (or an animal) could have grabbed him and made off with him without being seen, but if his parents had been gone a while and so were completely out of sight that makes it more plausible. More plausible too that little DeOrr would go the wrong way looking for his parents and get lost.

 

[giagreen]

Yes, I do think it's a possibility. I have two kids under two. After a 40 minute drive, I'd probably have to do diaper changes in the car, and maybe a snack or a drink for them. Plus if going in, taking them out of their car seats, loading them into the stroller, going in, shopping, waiting in line, and getting back in the car. This is just what's average for us, personally. In Deorr's case, it's possible for them to have done a diaper change, plus shopping, plus waiting for fries, plus likely waiting in line because the clerk that day said it was very busy. She could have simply not noticed Deorr in a busy shop, on another note, for those of us here that are wondering why the parents were remembered by the clerk and not Deorr.

I only have one child that's two and I could still easily spent 20 min in the store. Especially if you new you didn't wanna have to drive back later.

On a side note why hasn't anyone just called stage stop and ask if they serve. Food? I did. And YES they do serve food.

 

[Dee10]

Accourding to DeOrr & JM in the video, they were 10 min & 50 yards away.

ETA - I re-listened to the interview starting 9 minutes in and DeOrr makes it clear it was only a TOTAL of 10 minutes since they last saw little DeOrr.

[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

 

[haven71]

Yes, I do think it's a possibility. I have two kids under two. After a 40 minute drive, I'd probably have to do diaper changes in the car, and maybe a snack or a drink for them. Plus if going in, taking them out of their car seats, loading them into the stroller, going in, shopping, waiting in line, and getting back in the car. This is just what's average for us, personally. In Deorr's case, it's possible for them to have done a diaper change, plus shopping, plus waiting for fries, plus likely waiting in line because the clerk that day said it was very busy. She could have simply not noticed Deorr in a busy shop, on another note, for those of us here that are wondering why the parents were remembered by the clerk and not Deorr.

But there was a possible sighting of Deorr in the pickup. I doubt the parents would leave him unattended for that amount of time. I'd sure like to know how big the Stage Stop is, how many employees were working there, if both parents were in the store the whole time, etc. Also, in a busy shop, in a tiny area, I think somebody would've seen Deorr inside the store if he was there. Especially if he was there for 30 minutes!!!

 

[Sillybilly]

I have a question. What are we allowed to say on these forums? They're discussion forums. If there were no theories or thoughts on any of the interviews or articles on MSM, what is left?

Simply a timeline and MSM links?

Websleuths differs from a lot of other forums in that we do not run roughshod over victims. This is explained in The Rules, specifically the Victim Friendly section of Etiquette & Information:

The Rules

Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.

 

[MJ1960]

But there was a possible sighting of Deorr in the pickup. I doubt the parents would leave him unattended for that amount of time. I'd sure like to know how big the Stage Stop is, how many employees were working there, if both parents were in the store the whole time, etc. Also, in a busy shop, in a tiny area, I think somebody would've seen Deorr inside the store if he was there. Especially if he was there for 30 minutes!!!

But wouldn't it be possible for him to have been in the pickup while coming or going, but have gone into the store? Ok, so if it's unbelievable for my estimate of a realistic amount of time to go into a restaurant-slash-gas-station-convenience-store on a busy day with only one employee present, after a 40 minute drive with a toddler, with no reliable witnesses...What IS a realistic estimate? I say 30 minutes based on personal, timed experience on many long drives with our two small children. So if it's 15 minutes, say, then that puts the approximate timeline as:
10:30: Leave camp
11:15: Arrive at Stage Stop
11:30: Leave Stage Stop
12:15: Arrive back at camp

Of course, if they left at 11 instead of 10:30 (as their estimate was that they left camp at 10:30 or 11), that would put their arrival back at camp at about 12:45. Either way, a 15 minute stop still makes sense, but I really think 30 minutes is more realistic.

 

[MJ1960]

But there was a possible sighting of Deorr in the pickup. I doubt the parents would leave him unattended for that amount of time. I'd sure like to know how big the Stage Stop is, how many employees were working there, if both parents were in the store the whole time, etc. Also, in a busy shop, in a tiny area, I think somebody would've seen Deorr inside the store if he was there. Especially if he was there for 30 minutes!!!

But wouldn't it be possible for him to have been in the pickup while coming or going, but have gone into the store? Ok, so if it's unbelievable for my estimate of a realistic amount of time to go into a restaurant-slash-gas-station-convenience-store on a busy day with only one employee present, after a 40 minute drive with a toddler, with no reliable witnesses...What IS a realistic estimate? I say 30 minutes based on personal, timed experience on many long drives with our two small children. So if it's 15 minutes, say, then that puts the approximate timeline as:
10:30: Leave camp
11:15: Arrive at Stage Stop
11:30: Leave Stage Stop
12:15: Arrive back at camp

Of course, if they left at 11 instead of 10:30 (as their estimate was that they left camp at 10:30 or 11), that would put their arrival back at camp at about 12:45. Either way, a 15 minute stop still makes sense, but I really think 30 minutes is more realistic.

 

[Dee10]

But wouldn't it be possible for him to have been in the pickup while coming or going, but have gone into the store? Ok, so if it's unbelievable for my estimate of a realistic amount of time to go into a restaurant-slash-gas-station-convenience-store on a busy day with only one employee present, after a 40 minute drive with a toddler, with no reliable witnesses...What IS a realistic estimate? I say 30 minutes based on personal, timed experience on many long drives with our two small children. So if it's 15 minutes, say, then that puts the approximate timeline as:
10:30: Leave camp
11:15: Arrive at Stage Stop
11:30: Leave Stage Stop
12:15: Arrive back at camp

Of course, if they left at 11 instead of 10:30 (as their estimate was that they left camp at 10:30 or 11), that would put their arrival back at camp at about 12:45. Either way, a 15 minute stop still makes sense, but I really think 30 minutes is more realistic.

Deorr has stated they didn't leave the campsite after 1:00 pm. I take that to mean they arrive back at the campsite from the store around 1:00 but that's just my thinking.

ETA - that is not just my thinking:

04:39
TG: Right! Okay! So, from about 1 pm, and this is…I’m not going to get very specific here because I know you can’t go into detail, but from 1 pm till about to when the phone call was made about 45 minutes later, um what you have to go on is what the parents, the great grandfather and the grandfather’s friend has… have said, right?

04:58
SB: That’s correct!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

 

[haven71]

But wouldn't it be possible for him to have been in the pickup while coming or going, but have gone into the store? Ok, so if it's unbelievable for my estimate of a realistic amount of time to go into a restaurant-slash-gas-station-convenience-store on a busy day with only one employee present, after a 40 minute drive with a toddler, with no reliable witnesses...What IS a realistic estimate? I say 30 minutes based on personal, timed experience on many long drives with our two small children. So if it's 15 minutes, say, then that puts the approximate timeline as:
10:30: Leave camp
11:15: Arrive at Stage Stop
11:30: Leave Stage Stop
12:15: Arrive back at camp

Of course, if they left at 11 instead of 10:30 (as their estimate was that they left camp at 10:30 or 11), that would put their arrival back at camp at about 12:45. Either way, a 15 minute stop still makes sense, but I really think 30 minutes is more realistic.

It is possible.

I just have a lot of questions about that trip to the store.

SB says there was a possible sighting of Deorr in the pickup. IIRC he (SB) said that a person outside pumping gas possibly saw Deorr in the truck. No mention if either of the parents were in there with him, or somewhere around the vehicle. Edited to add...hold up. Did SB say it was when they themselves gassed up after they left Twin Falls? IDK. Nobody remembers seeing Deorr in the store. If he was in the truck alone, it might be that he fell asleep on the ride and the parents didn't want to wake him. Then again, his nap time was later in the day. He might've had a little snooze but 15-30 minutes is a lot of time if he were left alone in the car (IF, not saying he was). I wonder what the temperature was that day, if the windows were tinted, and if they were cracked open for ventilation.

Another thing to point out, given Deorr's age, after a 45 minute drive to the store, if not sleeping (the road is allegedly really rough out of the campground) then he would be apt (IMO) to be antsy from being belted in the whole time. And in a busy store, who doesn't notice an antsy kid? Unless they're being held by their parents, they're rushing through aisles, picking up candy bars when you tell them no, stomping around (if he was wearing his too big boots) and would not go unnoticed. If busy, there would be people coming in, going out, walking through the aisles, and standing in line. If the store was busy (I've heard it was, but does anyone have a link for this?) then I'm sure somebody saw and remembered him. Because word would've got out immediately to some of those shoppers/diners and the clerk that a 2.5 year old boy was missing and had been in the store at that certain time. No matter what, somebody would've seen Deorr, if only from the corner of their eye. He probably spoke out loud as well. IMO.

ANYTHING is possible, and that includes your insight too.

 

[Rayemonde]

<modsnip>

No, I don't think anyone actually said that DeOrr followed after his parents almost right away; it was just what I assumed and obviously I assumed wrong. So i don't think the story has changed there.
I assumed that if GGP had been alone with DeOrr for 15 minutes, then he would definitely realise that he was supposed to be supervising DeOrr and would not just shrug it off if DeOrr suddenly vanished. Did GGP even know how far away the parents had gone? The parents had been gone 15 minutes, yet he just assumed DeOrr would safely find them - with all that water around??

I'm starting to think that GGP's memory must be going after all, poor guy. And that would make him an unreliable witness as to when and where DeOrr disappeared, and whether he saw any animals, cars or people in the area.

 

[Dee10]

I am wondering Rayemonde where are you getting 15 min. from? Both parents say 10 mins. This is part of the problem with this case, there are so many variations, so I'm certainly not saying you are wrong, just wondering where 15 minutes is coming from?

 

[MJ1960]

Deorr has stated they didn't leave the campsite after 1:00 pm. I take that to mean they arrive back at the campsite from the store around 1:00 but that's just my thinking.

ETA - that is not just my thinking:

04:39
TG: Right! Okay! So, from about 1 pm, and this is…I’m not going to get very specific here because I know you can’t go into detail, but from 1 pm till about to when the phone call was made about 45 minutes later, um what you have to go on is what the parents, the great grandfather and the grandfather’s friend has… have said, right?

04:58
SB: That’s correct!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

Yes, about 1. Would 12:45 be considered about 1? I think so, but that depends on who you ask.

Were there any details on the receipt mentioned by SB, other than LE was given a receipt from the store visit that day?

 

[MJ1960]

See, that's confusing, too. What SB says here. "From about 1 to when the call was made 45 minutes later." The 911 call was at 2:36, right?

EDIT: Noticing that SB didn't say this. Host said it and SB agreed.