ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #15

[ILOKAL]

It's not impossible. Great Grandpa has "mental issues" per the sheriff's department. As I said, he may believe 100% that he saw DeOrr there if JM and DK told him he was there.

IR supposedly didn't know them, they had supposedly never met before this trip. He wasn't planning on hanging out with them, he was planning on fishing. He wasn't paying that much attention to them.

They arrived at the campground in separate vehicles, at night. If JM and DK said little D was asleep in the truck, neither of the other two would question that. Then GGP went to sleep in his camper, IR went to sleep in his tent, and JM and DK slept in the back of GGPs Suburban I believe.

Next morning, IR goes fishing. GGP is doing whatever. JM and DK leave for town. The other two aren't concerned where little D is, knowing he's with his parents.

They come back from town. IR is fishing. GGP is told little D is there, but like I said this could be manipulated.

It's not an unreasonable scenario. The scent dogs didn't track him at the campground. They should have been able to. Most 2 year olds would have been running all over the place.

We only know for sure about one diaper, and there's no proof it was even little D's. The sheriff said he was 99% sure little D was at the campground, but that also means he is NOT 100% sure. Even the sheriff has doubt.

No trace of him was found at the campground other than items the parents provided.

This scenario is NOT concocted by 4 people. This scenario would be concocted by 2 people responsible for whatever happened to cover their @sses, and the other 2 are innocent bystanders who have no idea what actually happened. I think IR and GGP have been truthful with the sheriff. Notice the sheriff has also never said that IR said he'd seen little D there, and he said GGP's info was unreliable due to the mental issues.

Please post a link that the sheriff's department said that GGP has mental issues. TIA

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Not according to what I read on this thread just yesterday. Apparently her ex came out in 100% support of her and said the custody was agreed upon because she said he was better able to be the custodial parent at the time (words to that affect).

As I understand it, he came out in support of finding DeOrr, because DeOrr is his children's half brother. He wasn't specifically supporting JM.

And let's just say there was a reason he was the better custodial parent.

 

[ILOKAL]

Yes, but at the same time, do you think a parent who lost a child because they had no idea they could unlock a door should get the same punishment as a parent who was passed out drunk while their child was drowning in the bath?

Unfortunately, most cases are simply not that black and white. There's usually more to the story.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I'm confused, where does grandma fit in to all this if the nappy was found at the campsite?

JM's mom went to the campground right away when JM informed her D was missing. On a FB Q & A, she said there was a used diaper of D's at the campground, and the day after he disappeared, Saturday, she asked the sheriff for permission and threw it away in a garbage bag that was being used by a church group that was there helping with food and water for the volunteers.

 

[desert-blue]

In the latest news interview ( http://m.localnews8.com/private-investigator-interview-on-deorr-kunz-jr-case/37525224 ) Mr. Klein says that he thinks DeOrr is on or near the mountain and then he goes right in to how he has interviewed everyone except IR (it's almost like a continuation of his response to the question about if DeOrr is on the mountain). I got the feeling that he thinks IR is the key to finding where DeOrr is. I wonder if IR was directed by one (or more) of the other three POI's to go dispose of the body. It would explain why he has an attorney. Perhaps he had nothing to do with DeOrr's death, but did assist in burying DeOrr somewhere on or near the mountain, and is afraid of being charged with a crime (for good reason). As for what happened to cause DeOrr's death - hoping it was just an accident, but a cover-up to me suggests that at a minimum, there was likely a fair amount of negligence. Hopefully the truth will come out soon. :-(

eta: MOO, all speculation on my part

 

[ILOKAL]

In the latest news interview ( http://m.localnews8.com/private-investigator-interview-on-deorr-kunz-jr-case/37525224 ) Mr. Klein says that he thinks DeOrr is on or near the mountain and then he goes right in to how he has interviewed everyone except IR (it's almost like a continuation of his response to the question about if DeOrr is on the mountain). I got the feeling that he thinks IR is the key to finding where DeOrr is. I wonder if IR was directed by one (or more) of the other three POI's to go dispose of the body. It would explain why he has an attorney. Perhaps he had nothing to do with DeOrr's death, but did assist in burying DeOrr somewhere on or near the mountain, and is afraid of being charged with a crime (for good reason). As for what happened to cause DeOrr's death - hoping it was just an accident, but the cover-up to me suggests that at a minimum, there was likely a fair amount of negligence. Hopefully the truth will come out soon. :-(

eta: MOO

Respectfully, that sounds pretty convoluted. A straight line from Klein's comment that the only one of the four they have been unable to speak to is IR is because HE is responsible (if in fact there was an accident or something nefarious that caused DeOrr to disappear). I just don't see the necessity of all your zigs and zags to make a "sensible" scenario. It's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. IMO.

 

[Mickshawn]

In the latest news interview ( http://m.localnews8.com/private-investigator-interview-on-deorr-kunz-jr-case/37525224 ) Mr. Klein says that he thinks DeOrr is on or near the mountain and then he goes right in to how he has interviewed everyone except IR (it's almost like a continuation of his response to the question about if DeOrr is on the mountain). I got the feeling that he thinks IR is the key to finding where DeOrr is. I wonder if IR was directed by one (or more) of the other three POI's to go dispose of the body. It would explain why he has an attorney. Perhaps he had nothing to do with DeOrr's death, but did assist in burying DeOrr somewhere on or near the mountain, and is afraid of being charged with a crime (for good reason). As for what happened to cause DeOrr's death - hoping it was just an accident, but a cover-up to me suggests that at a minimum, there was likely a fair amount of negligence. Hopefully the truth will come out soon. :-(

eta: MOO, all speculation on my part

If DeOrr is on or near the mountain, then he HAD to have gotten there by some vehicle. I assume all the vehicles were searched by Scent and Cadaver dogs who came up blank?

 

[giagreen]

Jessica already lost custody of her other kids.

But did she? Do we have court papers to prove this? I have no problem with the fact the parents may have done this but lets stick to facts and not fb gossip. Because I've seen statements from her ex that this isn't true. Amd he was at the benefit last weekend in support of the family. I truly believe this is gossip/rummor. And at this point they all look bad so is fake info really needed?

 

[giagreen]

IIRC, forensic means "for the court" so I'm not certain it has to be blood, DNA, fingerprints, and such. What are some other types of forensic evidence?

I was thinking the shovel with dirt on it that is from deep within the ground yet no obvious grave or hole that they can find to match the dirt on the shovel. Its all I can really think of if its not blood, fluid, ect....

 

[desert-blue]

If DeOrr is on or near the mountain, then he HAD to have gotten there by some vehicle. I assume all the vehicles were searched by Scent and Cadaver dogs who came up blank?

I do think he was a passenger in a vehicle from Idaho Falls to the campsite. I don't know if scent and cadaver dogs searched the vehicles and came up blank? I haven't heard that. I assumed he drove up with his parents so I'd expect his scent to be in the vehicle? If it wasn't, then I am really confused.... I didn't mean to imply his death may have occurred in a vehicle. I have no ideas on his manner of death.....

 

[desert-blue]

It's not impossible. Great Grandpa has "mental issues" per the sheriff's department. As I said, he may believe 100% that he saw DeOrr there if JM and DK told him he was there.

IR supposedly didn't know them, they had supposedly never met before this trip. He wasn't planning on hanging out with them, he was planning on fishing. He wasn't paying that much attention to them.

They arrived at the campground in separate vehicles, at night. If JM and DK said little D was asleep in the truck, neither of the other two would question that. Then GGP went to sleep in his camper, IR went to sleep in his tent, and JM and DK slept in the back of GGPs Suburban I believe.

Next morning, IR goes fishing. GGP is doing whatever. JM and DK leave for town. The other two aren't concerned where little D is, knowing he's with his parents.

They come back from town. IR is fishing. GGP is told little D is there, but like I said this could be manipulated.

It's not an unreasonable scenario. The scent dogs didn't track him at the campground. They should have been able to. Most 2 year olds would have been running all over the place.

We only know for sure about one diaper, and there's no proof it was even little D's. The sheriff said he was 99% sure little D was at the campground, but that also means he is NOT 100% sure. Even the sheriff has doubt.

No trace of him was found at the campground other than items the parents provided.

This scenario is NOT concocted by 4 people. This scenario would be concocted by 2 people responsible for whatever happened to cover their @sses, and the other 2 are innocent bystanders who have no idea what actually happened. I think IR and GGP have been truthful with the sheriff. Notice the sheriff has also never said that IR said he'd seen little D there, and he said GGP's info was unreliable due to the mental issues.

I think this is entirely plausible.

 

[giagreen]

Where did the information about IR being absent when Search and Rescue arrived and him sitting in hist tent during the search come from? I had not heard that before.

Its on fb. There are screen shots of JM saying this. But the thing that we have to keep in mind is that there are aps now where you can completely make up fb post and messages and pose as someone els. Not saying that's the case but I don't beleive anything I see anymore when it comes to screen shots.
But if you think about it. None of them including IR ever said they were togeather. If the parents where gone for 17 min and then went back to camp to find DeOrr missing and IR was not around that means IR had a whole hour while they searched to hide DeOrr then he also had a good amount of time from when the 911 call was made to when ems actually arived till he is supposedly accounted for. And just like the time stamp Klein won't discuss this as its evidence to the timeline.

I wonder if IR told LE he went with the parents fishing and that's why that's what we were told. Who knows. This really could go either way. I don't beleive tho they were all in it togeather. And I don't think IR would cover for them or them cover for IR. Craziness.

 

[ILOKAL]

As I understand it, he came out in support of finding DeOrr, because DeOrr is his children's half brother. He wasn't specifically supporting JM.

And let's just say there was a reason he was the better custodial parent.

Yes, from what I read some pages back, he WAS 100% in support of Jessica. I've read nothing that says the custody wasn't agreed upon or that the decision was made because he was the better custodial parent. IMO

 

[neesaki]

I keep thinking of the shovel that was supposedly taken by LE

And the ax and coveralls. I wonder if that was just standard procedure or if there was some other reason. :/

 

[ILOKAL]

I was thinking the shovel with dirt on it that is from deep within the ground yet no obvious grave or hole that they can find to match the dirt on the shovel. Its all I can really think of if its not blood, fluid, ect....

That's a strong possibility, IMO. IIRC, didn't someone ask about that shovel recently and got a no comment? Can't remember who was asked or where I read that.

 

[ILOKAL]

And the ax and coveralls. I wonder if that was just standard procedure or if there was some other reason. :/

Neesaki, didn't Klein say they have NO physical evidence?

 

[krig101]

And the ax and coveralls. I wonder if that was just standard procedure or if there was some other reason. :/

Forgot about that. Was it ever said who the ax and coveralls belonged to? TIA!



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[Rayemonde]

If DeOrr is on or near the mountain, then he HAD to have gotten there by some vehicle. I assume all the vehicles were searched by Scent and Cadaver dogs who came up blank?

LE have never said whether the dogs found a scent in the vehicles or not. Bowerman did say that the vehicles were searched more than once and Deorr was not found.

 

[Mickshawn]

LE have never said whether the dogs found a scent in the vehicles or not. Bowerman did say that the vehicles were searched more than once and Deorr was not found.

This would be really good to know...whether or not they hit on anything in or around the vehicles....This and a gazillion other things (would be good to know).

 

[ILOKAL]

Does anyone recall if Klein said they don't have any physical evidence? I thought I read that.