ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #16

[ClaireNC]

Yes, this morning I read that LE was expecting two of them to be inconsistent due to health reasons. From that point to this I question why they bothered to give them the polys if they didn't expect anything out of them.

As for JM and DK, here's what I read - inconclusive.


http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...ruthful-are-suspects-in-childs-disappearance/

And I am aware polys are slippery things, but I have heard pass or fail many times in many cases. That's probably why they aren't allowed in court.

:cow:

Other media sources have worded it differently. The sheriff has said that the parents were "untruthful" passed on the poly results. There are several articles and videos posted in the media thread, if you care to read up on the whole story.

 

[Onebest]

good radio interview with Sheriff Bowerman

http://590kid.com/2016/01/25/new-lemhi-sheriff-speaks-to-kid-about-deorr-kunz-jr-s-parent/

 

[ILOKAL]

Two of them were inconclusive because of health reasons. The sheriff said they expected that going in. The other two were determined to be "untruthful" during the polygraphs. There is a big difference. Polygraphs are not pass/fail or black/white.

Some people are just having a really hard time accepting the news that the sheriff delivered today and twisting the facts to soften the blow. Of course that is MY opinion.

I don't have the Sheriff's exact quote in front of me, but he didn't use the term "untruthful" regarding the results of DK and JM's inconclusive polygraphs, but he used the term "less than truthful". An earlier quote from him IIRC used the term "showed deception" but that was later amended to "less than truthful". I believe had DK and JM's test "shown deception", that would have been a fail. From what I've read, inconclusive polygraphs, when repeated, will usually receive an interpretation of pass or fail. I think I read where DK and JM took multiple polygraphs. Apparently, they each must have been interpreted as inconclusive. IMO

As far as physical and mental health challenges and if and how they might have a bearing on inconclusive polygraphs, might be an interesting topic for discussion.

 

[Trident]

Maybe I wasn't clear. Prior inconsistencies might have taken on a whole new life after the Saturday interviews. And sorry, but I have never read anything that said the parents have changed their stories on numerous occasions.

BBM - and that was probably because they had never been named as "suspects" before.

:cow:

 

[Trident]

Other media sources have worded it differently. The sheriff has said that the parents were "untruthful" passed on the poly results. There are several articles and videos posted in the media thread, if you care to read up on the whole story.

I've been keeping right up on the whole story, but thanks. If you have any other links than the ones already posted here, I'd be happy to read them.

I am well aware different terminology has been used in different articles. I was simply pointing out that "inconclusive" on several points was what I read and I gave a link.

 

[ILOKAL]

Don't be sorry. I *think* this information was just released today and it's hard to keep up with every article.
This is what was stated:
"Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told KTVB that Jessica Mitchell and Deorr Kunz Sr. have been "less than truthful" since the investigation began.

"They refused to give us any further information to clear up the untruthfulness and they've changed their story on numerous occasions," he said.

Here's a link to the article: http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crim...-parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/

Thank you Midge. But, no, I did read that today. What I meant was, prior to DK and JM refusing to provide SB et al with further information (which refusal just took place this past Sat), nothing had ever been said, as far as I recall, about any untruthfulness or inconsistencies on the part of either of them.

 

[kammiemc]

About Occam's Razor. I had never heard that term before I started following websleuths. It means that the simplest theory is usually the best.

But the funny thing is, the simplest theory is different for every mind. And we get so attached to our theories. For some, wandering was the simplest. For others abduction. For others parental involvement. For others the creek. And for others a mountain lion.

And I have seen the same thing on other cases I have followed. I guess what I have learned about Occam's Razor is that it only means something if you happen to be right--and that's a bit of crap shoot if you're not on the investigative team, isn't it?

Glad to be going from incensed to philosophical. Sorry if anyone sees it as off topic!




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[MistyM]

I am unsure what to make of the new developments but I have less faith in LE than many of you here. They don't always get it right.

In this case, it is HIGHLY unlikely that 4 people know what happened to DeOrr Jr. and haven't said anything by now.

The most likely scenario STILL is an accidental disappearance. The boy in TN wasn't found for over a week. They had no luck with dogs and high tech equipment in that case either so I don't think it is far-fetched to say DeOrr Jr. is up there on that mountain somewhere deceased. Sad, but true.

I am disappointed that so many have been willing to accuse the parents right from the beginning because there are other explanations for their behavior. Someone earlier mentioned that perhaps their deception could be related to something else. As an example, if they went to get high when they went on their 20 minute walk when DeOrr Jr. disappeared, well that could account for "deceptive polygraphs".

I will gladly eat crow if I am wrong. But the latest developments change nothing for me at this point.

if the parents told someone else, then perhaps that's who the 'witness who was afraid to come forward' is?

yeah but they found the boy within a week. this search has gone on longer with no trace of the child, there was only so far they could go... it's very likely he is not anywhere he couldn't have possibly walked to. he may be out of the perimeter of where they searched, assumming they only searched as far as the child could go.

IMO

 

[MistyM]

Black truck. Snake River. "Had to drive 1/2 mile to get a signal." "Had to go to Leadore to get supplies." "We were 50 yards away." Did I mention Snake River?

I've wanted to be able to say this on here for so d@mn long: DK wasn't impressed by the search & rescue equipment - he was proud of himself for hiding little D so well.

this post gave me goosey bumps!


eta: back when this first happened, people were mentioning S. River on social media... i always thought he may be in there.

 

[desert-blue]

They couldn't get a public defender assigned at this point could they? Without being charged? According to the Idaho repository, JM has one for her driving without privileges charge, but how do we know they could afford private lawyers? They needed public donations to pay for a PI.


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It will be interesting to see if they suddenly can muster up money to hire an attorney....

 

[SweetT]

<modsnip>

I used to think the parents had nothing to do with this little boys disappearance also, but am I not supposed to believe LE when they say the parents know where Deorr is and what happened to him? Why would they lie?

 

[ILOKAL]

It will be interesting to see if they suddenly can muster up money to hire an attorney....

My guess is attorney's will be knocking to represent them pro bono.

 

[katydid23]

SABBM

No words. Any time a child goes missing, there needs to be a thorough investigation. Just so sad it's taken this long for an attempt for justice for the little boy.
Does anyone have a link for what the sheriff has to say about his initial comments, about the parents being 'solid' ? He must feel bad about being misled.
Although my .02 is that he suspected otherwise, but didn't have enough to go on.
:moo:

Sometimes LE will say that someone is 'solid and totally cooperative' because they want them to et their guard down and do more talking.

 

[MistyM]

Question: I've run across comments in posts stating that the parents have pointed a finger at IR, or thrown him under the bus. Where is this coming from?

i believe many people think that klein's statements of IR not cooperating with him and obtaining a lawyer, resulted in a few people feeling that those statements might make people suspicious or moreso suspicious about IR's involvement. and because klein was hired by a family member to investigate the disappearance, people believe that it is the parent's intention to scapegoat IR.

so a comment from klein, klein's connection to the family... people on SM are blaming the parents. and that's as straight forward as i can explain it.

 

[MistyM]

Sounds like they're waiting on the parents to break, for one to spill the beans on the other first.

strike a deal?
Let's Make a Deal!!

 

[Ragamuffin]

It has been a very long time since I commentated on DeOrr's thread.

I've been reading, but so much seemed to refer to SM and FB I haven't had access to. I must confess, I was one of the original posters who asked about Mountain Lion predation. I never, ever, expected that query to end up in a multi-thread discussion. I live in an area where a rogue ML killed a mountain biker and grievously wounded another before being shot - hence my initial questioning as to DeOrr's fate. It was purely local knowledge and speculation.

That said, I totally believed the parents. DeOrr is left with GGP for less than 20 mins, he's a dementia sufferer, he looses focus for a few, and the child is gone.

Why did so many people - NOT WS - rush to judgement to blame Noah's GM for one moment of inattention but give DeOrr's GGP a pass? Not sure where I'm going with this, but was there something super hinky I missed?

I guess I'm just asking why so many WS on this thread are relieved we can finally discuss the parents. Is it just because of SM I don't have access to, or is there more?

 

[Beezneez]

According to the KIFI channel 8 fb page (local news) DK Sr. Now has an attorney. I can't watch the 10 pm news tonight, but those of you who have fb may be able to keep updated via their page. Can't post a link from my phone for some reason, but Google Idaho falls channel 8 news if you cannot find it.

 

[kammiemc]

It will be interesting to see if they suddenly can muster up money to hire an attorney....

I would assume that they don't have dough for a lawyer. But this case will quickly get high profile--after six "gosh darn" months--because the parents are named as suspects, so they might get some fame-seeking lawyers to take it on pro bono.


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[Trident]

It has been a very long time since I commentated on DeOrr's thread.

I've been reading, but so much seemed to refer to SM and FB I haven't had access to. I must confess, I was one of the original posters who asked about Mountain Lion predation. I never, ever, expected that query to end up in a multi-thread discussion. I live in an area where a rogue ML killed a mountain biker and grievously wounded another before being shot - hence my initial questioning as to DeOrr's fate. It was purely local knowledge and speculation.

That said, I totally believed the parents. DeOrr is left with GGP for less than 20 mins, he's a dementia sufferer, he looses focus for a few, and the child is gone.

Why did so many people - NOT WS - rush to judgement to blame Noah's GM for one moment of inattention but give DeOrr's GGP a pass? Not sure where I'm going with this, but was there something super hinky I missed?

I guess I'm just asking why so many WS on this thread are relieved we can finally discuss the parents. Is it just because of SM I don't have access to, or is there more?

I'm relieved because I questioned why DK took off in his black truck to get better phone reception. That always struck me as odd. I also question why we couldn't get a firm timeline on when JM, DK and party arrived at the campground, or why we didn't know IR was even there for several days. Oh, I have a lot of questions about the parents and I'm glad we can finally discuss them without getting a TO or having the post disappear.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that the parents "did it", whatever really happened to little DeOrr. I'm still keeping an open mind, but even so I still have questions and I'm glad we can discuss them. I don't believe that's wrong.

:cow:

 

[desert-blue]

I would assume that they don't have dough for a lawyer. But this case will quickly get high profile--after six "gosh darn" months--because the parents are named as suspects, so they might get some fame-seeking lawyers to take it on pro bono.


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If that's the case, hopefully they get what they pay for.