ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #16

[CoverMeCagney]

In my opinion, it would have been normal for a woman who already had a social media proclivity to take pictures of her son and post them online.
And that's just:moo:

I agree, and I am that woman, but here's what I do when I go camping (a difference to being at home or anywhere with wifi): I prefer to use to use a "proper" camera to take photos, they're just better than anything I can get on my iPhone. Plus when I'm camping I can't charge my phone easily and often don't have great reception, so I tend not to use it much. Even if I did I couldn't upload the photos there and then. So I take my camera home and download all the photos, and then I'll put some on FB or whatever.

We don't know whether she took zero photos or dozens. We don't know how many she would normally take or post on SM, we don't know if she had internet connection up there, we don't know what's on her camera or not on her camera, basically we know jack all to do with Jessica's photo taking proclivity (great word, 4sethia, I had to google it!).

I suppose all this could apply to other discussions on this case and every other, but this one's in danger of running and running, à la lion de montagne!

EDIT because I don't use my phone much when on a camping trip, and I don't wear a watch, I barely ever know what time it is.

 

[TeaTime]

Come, come, Sleuthers, photos or no photos, it does not matter unless there was a habit of taking non-stop photos and none were taken Friday morning because the child was already dead which can not be true because Klein has witnesses, plural and other than the 4 poi, that place the child on the mountain on Friday.

Let's get to the witnesses, with direct knowledge and information previously withheld - this is much more likely to produce an answer than the photo/no photo discussion. Right?

Who could these witnesses be? The older camping couple or the lady (and/or others) at the store or someone yet unknown to us at all?

Dear Witness, whoever you may be. Thank you for stepping up and telling what you know. Do not fear over your cooperation, you have done the right thing for the right reasons and I applaud you. Please continue your efforts to bring the baby's body home and to solve this case.

 

[kammiemc]

I went away for a few days with 7 friends recently, all my age (40ish), all female.

2 took no photos at all
3 took less than 10
2 took about 40-50
1 took over 100

I've known these girls for years and it's always been the same, some take loads of pics, some not so much.

My point is - everyone is different and we can't read too much into Jessica's photos of the trip. We don't even actually know if she did or didn't take any, there could be dozens of pics on her camera/phone that we don't know about.

I realized after my little one opened his prezzies this last Christmas that I totally forgot to take pics. I am the person who would take just a couple pics on a camping trip, so for me, lack of pics (if there is a lack of pics--do we even know that?--doesn't, in itself, raise any red flags. IMO.


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[iluvmua]

maybe they planned on taking photos over the weekend. jmo

 

[Sillybilly]

If you see a post by another members that violates the TOS by all means alert on it - but PLEASE do not quote or respond in any way, and do not discuss the post or moderation on the board.

Mods or Admin do not and can not possibly sit on each and every thread, monitoring every single post as it is being made. We rely on members to report posts using the Alert feature (little black triangle, bottom left of each and every post.)

And don't forget the Ignore button. It's there for a reason.

 

[gliving]

Come, come, Sleuthers, photos or no photos, it does not matter unless there was a habit of taking non-stop photos and none were taken Friday morning because the child was already dead which can not be true because Klein has witnesses, plural and other than the 4 poi, that place the child on the mountain on Friday.

Snipped by me. TeaTime, help me please. Who are the witnesses, other than the four POI, that place Deorr on the mountain on Friday? I've missed something. Thanks!!

 

[flourish]

If you see a post by another members that violates the TOS by all means alert on it - but PLEASE do not quote or respond in any way, and do not discuss the post or moderation on the board.

Mods or Admin do not and can not possibly sit on each and every thread, monitoring every single post as it is being made. We rely on members to report posts using the Alert feature (little black triangle, bottom left of each and every post.)

And don't forget the Ignore button. It's there for a reason.

(tapatalk may vary. On mine if I tap a post it turns blue and I can thank, quote, etc. Three dots appear at the top right next to the thumbs up icon and if I click the 3 dots it says report and I click that to alert a post. I'm embarrassed to admit how confusing tapatalk was for me at 1st after years of only ever having accessed ws from a desktop. hth.)

 

[ILOKAL]

What did he say to make you think that? I recall him saying through the course of the investigation they arrived Thursday night and didn't say how or by who. Nate stated he got info. from police that it was Friday when they arrived.

That's EXACTLY what SB said that makes me say that. During the course of the investigation. IIRC, SB was getting that early information from Penner. There might have been an assumption made as to when they arrived or may have even misunderstood. Who knows. But there is absolutely no reason to "assume" the parents deliberately gave the wrong information to LE? We don't even know if and when the parents came to realize the information wasn't correct. IMO

 

[TeaTime]

Snipped by me. TeaTime, help me please. Who are the witnesses, other than the four POI, that place Deorr on the mountain on Friday? I've missed something. Thanks!!

gliving we do not know. This is from PI Klein who stated that he has witnesses (plural) that have information previously withheld and at least some of that information places DeOrr on the mountain on Friday.

 

[kammiemc]

There have been questions about what "on the mountain" means. Is it Leadore and the campground? Just the campground? The whole Lemhi range?
The map below may help refresh memories about the geography of the area. JMO, I don't think "on the mountain" refers to Leadore. It could refer to the whole Central Lemhi Range, or just the drainage that Stone (Timbercreek) Reservoir is in. It probably depends on who is using the term.

This particular map is from a Trail/Dirt Bike riding site. The reservoir is a little blue dot between the red and green balloons. If you roll over the areas, you will see the Stone Reservoir and the names of the trails. You can also zoom in and out.

Note the contrast between where Leadore is in the valley, and the mountains. Also note the extensive series of interconnected trails. As I said, this is a website for bike trail riding, but couldn't ATVs also go on the trails? Certainly trucks could drive the mile past the reservoir, and maybe beyond. I don't know if there were any ATVs available when little Deorr went missing.

You can go from one campground to another; notably from Timbercreek campground to Big Eight Mile Campground.

The latest report on these trails (specifically about a mile past the reservoir) was made June 28, 2015; just 12 days before Deorr went missing. It says the trails were dry and ridable.

There is a wealth of information on this site, I found it interesting anyway. I don't have a theory about what happened, but I do believe that it is helpful to understand the area and the terrain. There are many places a tiny body could be, especially if someone had even an hour to disappear him. JMO.

http://www.trailforks.com/trails/stone-reservoir-road-172/

Great info, thanks!!!!


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[kammiemc]

That's EXACTLY what SB said that makes me say that. During the course of the investigation. IIRC, SB was getting that early information from Penner. There might have been an assumption made as to when they arrived or may have even misunderstood. Who knows. But there is absolutely no reason to "assume" the parents deliberately gave the wrong information to LE? We don't even know if and when the parents came to realize the information wasn't correct. IMO

The parents were sharing news reports with the Friday arrival date on SM prior to their interview with Nate. But perhaps they did not read the articles.


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[Dee10]

That's EXACTLY what SB said that makes me say that. During the course of the investigation. IIRC, SB was getting that early information from Penner. There might have been an assumption made as to when they arrived or may have even misunderstood. Who knows. But there is absolutely no reason to "assume" the parents deliberately gave the wrong information to LE? We don't even know if and when the parents came to realize the information wasn't correct. IMO

Personally, I find it very hard to believe Penner didn't ask, but I am also not "assuming" the parents deliberately gave the wrong answer. You brought up a good that it hasn't been specified if and when the parents knew. I find it very hard to believe they nor their family read the paper about this case for days and days. Does anyone remember how long the press was saying 'Friday' morning?

 

[ILOKAL]

Personally, I find it very hard to believe Penner didn't ask, but I am also not "assuming" the parents deliberately gave the wrong answer. You brought up a good that it hasn't been specified if and when the parents knew. I find it very hard to believe they nor their family read the paper about this case for days and days. Does anyone remember how long the press was saying 'Friday' morning?

IIRC, that interview was the Monday after DeOrr disappeared and JM and DK stayed "on the mountain" during the search. Can you even begin to imagine their turmoil and fear during that period of time? I completely doubt if whatever else was going on even entered their minds.

 

[gliving]

gliving we do not know. This is from PI Klein who stated that he has witnesses (plural) that have information previously withheld and at least some of that information places DeOrr on the mountain on Friday.

Thanks TeaTime. Is this what you are referring to:

"Klein said on his Facebook page that a new witness, previously deterred from talking due to the publicity of the case, came forward and provided new information.

Klein refused to disclose the unnamed witness’s relation to the case, or if they were present at the campground the day DeOrr went missing.

In a question and answer session held Jan. 11 on the Facebook page, Klein said the witness had “direct knowledge, not hearsay,” on the case and that his investigators are vetting the information."

http://www.postregister.com/article...1/18/investigator-believes-deorr-kunz-jr-dead

This doesn't say a witness saw him on the mountain. Is it something Klein wrote on facebook? Not being picky, but it would poke a hole in my latest theory, if someone other than the four POI witnessed an "alive" Deorr on Friday.

Does anyone have the Klein quote that the witness places Deorr alive on Friday? TIA

ETA: My apologies. I found it TeaTime:

Eaton: Annalee asks, “I would like to know if Great Grandpa or Isaac actually saw DeOrr on Friday or if they just assumed he was there because they had seen him Thursday?

Klein: Again that goes into testimony and I’m not willing to answer but I will say is we have witnesses collaborating that he was on the mountain on that Friday.

 

[4senthia]

Some timeline info:
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/
"Friday July 10
Deorr Kunz Jr, his father, mother, great-grandfather, and a family friend travel 120 miles from Idaho Falls to Timber Creek Campground in Leadore."
"Monday July 13
In their only interview, Deorr’s parents explain what happened the previous Friday afternoon."
Then we have a mention of the morning after they arrived:
http://q13fox.com/2015/08/11/privat...amily-of-missing-idaho-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr/
"When [the family] went into town the morning after they arrived, they picked a few groceries up and bought some French fries for DeOrr Jr.,” Vilt said."
That article was August 11, 2015.
jmo

 

[ILOKAL]

Thanks TeaTime. Is this what you are referring to:

"Klein said on his Facebook page that a new witness, previously deterred from talking due to the publicity of the case, came forward and provided new information.

Klein refused to disclose the unnamed witness’s relation to the case, or if they were present at the campground the day DeOrr went missing.

In a question and answer session held Jan. 11 on the Facebook page, Klein said the witness had “direct knowledge, not hearsay,” on the case and that his investigators are vetting the information."

http://www.postregister.com/article...1/18/investigator-believes-deorr-kunz-jr-dead

This doesn't say a witness saw him on the mountain. Is it something Klein wrote on facebook? Not being picky, but it would poke a hole in my latest theory, if someone other than the four POI witnessed an "alive" Deorr on Friday.

Does anyone have the Klein quote that the witness places Deorr alive on Friday? TIA

First of all, I think that's a reporter's recap of what Klein said. Maybe someone can post what he said from a video or something? FWIW, this recap speaks of "a witness", not witnesses.

ETA: I noticed this the other day and forgot to mention it. Note Klein says that his investigators are vetting the information from this "witness". Think about that! I would seem to me they would have vetted that information before disclosing to the public anything ABOUT a "witness". But perhaps as they began vetting they ran into a problem. Last week, during Klein's interview video, he seemed to threaten someone about lying and their having to face a federal grand jury. It was REALLY odd, IMO.

 

[Hoosier952]

Is it possible that one of the 2 RSOs were the witness? If I'm not mistaken, one worked in Leadore and one was living or working in the ranger station although I'm not sure where that station was located.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Is it possible that one of the 2 RSOs were the witness? If I'm not mistaken, one worked in Leadore and one was living or working in the ranger station although I'm not sure where that station was located.

Yes I read recently about the ranger being an RSO. Do we know any more about this?

 

[pepelepolecat]

First of all, I think that's a reporter's recap of what Klein said. Maybe someone can post what he said from a video or something? FWIW, this recap speaks of "a witness", not witnesses.

ETA: I noticed this the other day and forgot to mention it. Note Klein says that his investigators are vetting the information from this "witness". Think about that! I would seem to me they would have vetted that information before disclosing to the public anything ABOUT a "witness". But perhaps as they began vetting they ran into a problem. Last week, during Klein's interview video, he seemed to threaten someone about lying and their having to face a federal grand jury. It was REALLY odd, IMO.

A *federal grand jury?

That *is odd.

 

[ILOKAL]

Thanks TeaTime. Is this what you are referring to:

"Klein said on his Facebook page that a new witness, previously deterred from talking due to the publicity of the case, came forward and provided new information.

Klein refused to disclose the unnamed witness’s relation to the case, or if they were present at the campground the day DeOrr went missing.

In a question and answer session held Jan. 11 on the Facebook page, Klein said the witness had “direct knowledge, not hearsay,” on the case and that his investigators are vetting the information."

http://www.postregister.com/article...1/18/investigator-believes-deorr-kunz-jr-dead

This doesn't say a witness saw him on the mountain. Is it something Klein wrote on facebook? Not being picky, but it would poke a hole in my latest theory, if someone other than the four POI witnessed an "alive" Deorr on Friday.

Does anyone have the Klein quote that the witness places Deorr alive on Friday? TIA

ETA: My apologies. I found it TeaTime:

Eaton: Annalee asks, “I would like to know if Great Grandpa or Isaac actually saw DeOrr on Friday or if they just assumed he was there because they had seen him Thursday?

Klein: Again that goes into testimony and I’m not willing to answer but I will say is we have witnesses collaborating that he was on the mountain on that Friday.

So, according to this, Klein has one new "witness" and then he has "witnesses" (who corroborate). I guess those witnesses who corroborate must be OLD witnesses?