ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[CanadianWells]

So, does that mean that, legally, you can disclose information for lack of payment? What about the whole "give a lawyer a dollar before you tell him anything" concept?

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Just asking questions here. He was "hired" as an investigator, not a lawyer, correct? So, does that make him responsible to attorney client privilege? I feel certain that whatever he's done is well within his rights. He'd be an idiot and very bad at his job if it weren't. I feel like we're speculating on their contract and on his professional responsibilities based on him being something he's not. Both investigators have shared information, and with all of these new developments and me being new at this I might be just dizzy and wrong. That happens more than I like.

 

[neesaki]

Is this where we post questions for tonight's interview? TIA

 

[iluvmua]

Is this where we post questions for tonight's interview? TIA

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Bowerman-in-the-case-of-missing-DeOrr-Kunz-Jr

 

[neesaki]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Bowerman-in-the-case-of-missing-DeOrr-Kunz-Jr

Thanks so much, iluvmua. I just posted my question.

 

[ILOKAL]

He was never paid so I think that voided the contract re privacy.

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No, that wouldn't void the contract. There is a process. It's called a civil small claims lawsuit. I mean really?! What kind of person reveals personal medical information about a client that is actually covered by HIPPA?

 

[CanadianWells]

No, that wouldn't void the contract. There is a process. It's called a civil small claims lawsuit. I mean really?! What kind of person reveals personal medical information about a client that is actually covered by HIPPA?

Holy yikes yeah... Where was my head that I didn't think of the medical history.

 

[pepelepolecat]

No, that wouldn't void the contract. There is a process. It's called a civil small claims lawsuit. I mean really?! What kind of person reveals personal medical information about a client that is actually covered by HIPPA?

HIPAA applies to health care providers, insurance companies, health facilities, etc.

ETA: And depending on the contract, there may have been a clause stating that he would not be a party to any criminal or suspected criminal activity. (Not that that has to do with the media getting hold of that letter, which may be another issue entirely -- just that he may have been well within his rights to go to LE).

 

[CanSleuth]

Maybe JM is somewhat like Casey Anthony and felt her child got in the way of her lifestyle so needed to be free of him. Maybe her relationship with Deorr Sr. was faltering with the stress of a baby and the extra financial pressures that having a child brings. Not having full custody of her other two children might have been the preferred arrangement for her (part time parenting), but when she gave birth to Deorr she got saddled down as a parent full time at a young age. Deorr's demise could have been premeditated on her part to relieve her burden. The story about Deorr getting lost or abducted creates sympathy for her, the grieving mother, as well as funds for the family. Its win-win for JM. If this scenerio were the case I would think that JM would want Deorr's body to be found (not right away of course, but after a period of time so evidence would be minimal). If Deorr's remains were to be found within 4 miles of the campsite, or in the creek/reservoir, it might be believable that he had been there all along and somehow the searchers/dogs missed him. Even if his remains end up being found 'on the mountain' but nowhere near the campsite, JM can still push the abduction angle. Once the body is found there can be closure, media attention can die down, and JM can move on with her life--child free because she has had her tubes tied.

The photographs posted on SM and even in MSM however seem to show a strong and loving bond between JM and Deorr Jr, so I'm having a hard time believing that she would premeditate his murder. If she is responsible, I think it is more likely 2nd degree given an accident/cover up, or something like getting angry (SBS) and abusing little Deorr. Perhaps Deorr was in the 'terrible twos' and JM had a short fuse, especially if under the influence. She may have been extra tired on that Thursday/Friday given the rush to get ready to camp, and leaving later in the evening for a long drive, plus being pre-menstural, could have affected her mood and temper.

Rambled enough...

 

[Rayemonde]

We have no idea what kind of contract Vilt had the parents sign, or if they had any formal contract at all, so we can't really speculate on whether he has breached any contract by speaking out against them.

 

[Rayemonde]

RSBM

Adopted ? Assuming Vernal is the bio-dad of little DeOrr... he'd have to relinquish him as well, and not just Jessica.
We have some friends and acquaintances who've adopted -- it can be a lengthy process after all is said and done.

It's just 'way out there' imo, for Jessica to have done this in the legal way. Unless it was done illegally.

But then we have IR who claims to have seen baby DeOrr at the campground...
Enough to boggle one's mind, this is !
:moo:

No, Vilt thought jessica might have by-passed all that by just giving him away without telling anyone.

Not adoption at all.

 

[Rayemonde]

You know, as bizarre as his theory sounds, Klein also vaguely pointed towards this by ruling out a "forced abduction."

Yes, because Klein will have been well aware of Vilt's theory, and would have looked at it as a possible scenario along with all the others. And then dismissed it, IMO.

 

[Rayemonde]

No, that wouldn't void the contract. There is a process. It's called a civil small claims lawsuit. I mean really?! What kind of person reveals personal medical information about a client that is actually covered by HIPPA?

Never mind, Jessica can just beg the public for some more money to use to sue him! But really, that's the least of her worries right now, tbh...

 

[krig101]

What kind of person reveals personal medical information about a client that is actually covered by HIPPA?

True, if he were her doctor.
If it's going to help possibly bring witnesses forward and help find Deorr then that's quite alright with me. I'm glad he revealed that info. It shows a lot about JM's character. MOO



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[Elle*Bee]

Whoever was asking about Oxygen - here's what's out there:

July/August, 2015
KIFI Facebook
Two separate posts by TBC stating this
https://www.facebook.com/LocalNews8/posts/10153538256878872


August 12, 2015
580 KIDO - Kevin Miller with Nate Eaton

04:26
Nate: Grandfather is elderly, on oxygen and has a few health issues, never been a suspect or anyone they are focusing on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB1jNvgY-uk&feature=youtu.be


September 18, 2015
590 KID Interview with Frank Vilt (3 audios - transcript available media/timeline)

01:45
Frank Vilt: … I feel that the grandfather was too ill. He’s on oxygen almost 24 hours a day, and I feel that he has…he’s not been a part of this. He’s just an older gentleman who has some health problems
http://590kid.com/2015/09/18/tips-about-missing-toddler-forwarded-to-idaho-fusion-center/

Thanks for this. I find it odd that in IR's recent interview, when asked about grandpa, he replied, "I heard he's on oxygen." It seems like he would have noticed that on the camping trip.

Question: can a person temporarily need oxygen, perhaps due to altitude at the campsite, and then his condition deteriorate so now he needs it 24/7?

(My mom was on oxygen for years because of COPD and congestive heart failure, but once she was placed on oxygen, it was 24/7.)

 

[gliving]

You know, as bizarre as his theory sounds, Klein also vaguely pointed towards this by ruling out a "forced abduction."

But I can't see any way in the world that DK wouldn't be involved in such a thing. So why would they try to pull this off? Money? If that's the case, then why is JM so reluctant for publicity? Is there something else going on with DeOrr that would make these two want to hide their own toddler?

This is so far afield and unlikely, but not one but TWO PIs have indicated this may be a possibility (although Klein seems to be saying DeOrr almost certainly isn't alive). So what's going on? Their plans got fouled up somehow?

Hmmm.

I really don't think this was an abduction of any kind. But I am really curious now as to what these PIs think happened. all moo.

This worries me. If Deorr's body is found, it will most likely be in a degraded state. Unless there is evidence linking his death back to his parents, ie luminol shows a large amt of his blood in their truck, their defense could be he was abducted, murdered and subsequently dumped 10 miles away.

How would the DA present a prosecution in this case? Is this how Casey Anthony got off?

 

[ILOKAL]

HIPAA applies to health care providers, insurance companies, health facilities, etc.

ETA: And depending on the contract, there may have been a clause stating that he would not be a party to any criminal or suspected criminal activity. (Not that that has to do with the media getting hold of that letter, which may be another issue entirely -- just that he may have been well within his rights to go to LE).

I didn't mean he was necessarily bound by HIPPA, just that as his client, he should not reveal her medical information. It is clearly unethical and would be the type of information covered under HIPPA.

 

[kammiemc]

Yes, because Klein will have been well aware of Vilt's theory, and would have looked at it as a possible scenario along with all the others. And then dismissed it, IMO.

I think some people who really wanted to hold on to hope that the little guy is alive read that into Klein's statement. So Klein was asked to clarify and he did, very clearly, by saying he has ruled out all forms of abduction and that there is no evidence of adoption.

I think Frank's heart is in the right place, but it seems a leap to take the info that some states allow moms to adopt out their children without bio dads' knowledge/approval to thinking it's probable in this case. And regardless of my suspicions of the mother, I think that the fact that a woman takes measures to not have an endless number of children does not mean that she doesn't want the ones that she has. (His point about her giving up custody of her other children is less of a stretch for me.)

 

[Rayemonde]

Personally, I think the family were less than truthful about the extent ggp's health problems. The exaggerated them to protect him from accusations, IMO.

 

[ILOKAL]

Never mind, Jessica can just beg the public for some more money to use to sue him! But really, that's the least of her worries right now, tbh...

Really? The process is what HE would need to do to collect any unpaid monies. I wasn't suggesting that Jessica should sue him.

 

[EllieBee]

JMO, but I think she will come forward first... Not because she's the weakest link, but because she's ruthless. She will not hesitate to throw Vernal under the bus to save herself.

She strikes me as cold and calculating, rather than a grieving mother. Whereas Vernal did seem very nervous, and maybe genuinely remorseful or grieving in his interviews. Moo.

Shades of Kristen Bury. (Baby Chance)