ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

[persimmon]

I may regret asking this, but what would be their motive for selling their child? Who buys children? I am genuinely asking because apart from a few isolated cases I have seen where disturbed individuals ran Craigslist ads that were foiled by LE, I completely naive about this topic. I'll likely research it now and have nightmares. Is this really something people do?

 

[Rayemonde]

If I believed my child had been abducted, I would use media to the fullest in hopes of helping my plight to find him/her. In my mind, LE would be a tool but I would conducting my own investigation and pursuing any possible thread. I have not felt that the parents have committed themselves in the way a parent should. They have battled against media exposure, waged petty sm wars, and continually focused on their egos. Persusing Facebook is not going to help them find their child so perhaps getting off SM unless its productive and utilizing time and resources wisely would aid them. But, I lean toward thinking they are involved. No I dont believe they would cover for another individual. They seem far too self centered.

I find this case bizarre. Period. The behavior is likewise bizarre and I can imagine a few reasons for that.

Finally, I have always been confused by their strong reaction to the black truck sighting. I reasoned much like you that it was likely a different black truck and maybe since abduction is on the table it should be investigated and embraced as a possible sighting. Like everything else, it's bizarre and illogical. Much like the assertion that somebody did this to them. A comment that was made in the same initial interview. That struck me as insanely paranoid and self centered since its DeOrr who is the victim not them.

Jmo and responses to some of your thougts.
Time for sleep.

Yes, very well said. I wouldn't have suspected the parents at all if it weren't for their bizarre response to their child's disappearance.

 

[Rayemonde]

I may regret asking this, but what would be their motive for selling their child? Who buys children? I am genuinely asking because apart from a few isolated cases I have seen where disturbed individuals ran Craigslist ads that were foiled by LE, I completely naive about this topic. I'll likely research it now and have nightmares. Is this really something people do?

I've read about a couple of isolated cases where parents have sold their child to someone they know... Usually they were heavy drug users and sold the kid for a really small amount of money.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

NTL, whether the reservoir is a more suitable place to fish than the creek is a matter of opinion. IMO, the creek is a great place to fish and there's nothing strange about fishing there.

What I find very odd is, that 4 adults go for camping and fishing and if one of the men -IR- as expected has good luck to catch a fish (while JM/VDK/little Deorr were at Leandore) then 2 others (JM/VDK) after returning to the campside have to get shown, where the third man got this fish.
This explanation for going to the creek I've read seems to be totally absurd to me.

 

[persimmon]

I've read about a couple of isolated cases where parents have sold their child to someone they know... Usually they were heavy drug users and sold the kid for a really small amount of money.

Wow! Speechless. It stands to reason I suppose if people would sell themselves to feed an addiction some would even sell their children. I suppose it's a possibility.

 

[Eileen730]

I've read about a couple of isolated cases where parents have sold their child to someone they know... Usually they were heavy drug users and sold the kid for a really small amount of money.

Baby Chance.
His mother sold her first child for rent and a car.
She is or was a big druggie

I don't think this is what happened here.

 

[Rayemonde]

Baby Chance.
His mother sold her first child for rent and a car.
She is or was a big druggie

I don't think this is what happened here.

No, they killed him then sold his clothes. Unless you're talking about another baby Chance?

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime...g-user-parents-change-story-article-1.2389770

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, because he's not a suspect. We have two named suspects, and he is not one of them.

Plus - I don't want to invade his privacy by speculating on any health issues or other issues he might have, but *if* he has any issues that make him a vulnerable person, then IMO he should be accorded more privacy and protection than the average person. Same with ggp, if he has any health issues that make him particularly vulnerable - if ggp can't stick up for himself properly due to health and memory issues, then I feel obligated to stick up for him. Same with IR. This is all just MOO, but IMO vulnerable people should get extra protection in the same way minors do.

Then the parents were well advised to take just these two people with them on their camping-/fishing adventure ...?

 

[persimmon]

No, they killed him then sold his clothes. Unless you're talking about another baby Chance?

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime...g-user-parents-change-story-article-1.2389770

The mother received only 25 years. Why do prosecuters make deals with such an individual?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Also, if it were important to you for a cashier to remember you during your visit, wouldn't you think up something that would have made that more likely to happen, like spill a drink, or talk about something easily remembered by the cashier?

Looking back to SB's first True Crime Radio interview he said this about the cashier:

SB: Well, initially um the store salesperson didn’t remember uh the encounter. When the father uh… I call him Vernal instead of Deorr, it’s Vernal Deorr Kunz…when Vernal and his wife came back to the store several days later then the salesperson said, “Oh, yeah, I remember you!”

02:45
SB: Now I’m not sure…I don’t recall her saying specifically that she remembered the child. She remembered them talking about their child, and they bought some candy and some other items, and we have a dated and time-stamped receipt, so we know they were in the store. And someone while they were fueling up said they thought they saw a child in the back seat, but that hasn’t been ever positively stated that there was a child there, but ya’ know at this point, I’m believing the family!

 

[Eileen730]

No, they killed him then sold his clothes. Unless you're talking about another baby Chance?

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime...g-user-parents-change-story-article-1.2389770

She had 3 children.
She sold the first child the other 2 are deceased.

 

[Eileen730]

The mother received only 25 years. Why do prosecuters make deals with such an individual?

Because she told where they could find baby chance.

 

[pepelepolecat]

In the initial interview JM said she called 911 at 2:36. At the time I didn't think much about it other than it just happened to be the time of the call. Today I started to wonder if anything could have prompted the call to happen when it did . . . so I checked the weather.

and I can't help but wonder if they felt they really had no choice once it started to rain. They had no way of knowing it was just going to be a light rain lasting about an hour.

Expanded version:http://www.wunderground.com/history...wmo=99999&theprefset=SHOWMETAR&theprefvalue=1

Summarized version: http://www.wunderground.com/history....zip=83464&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999&MR=1

Wow. This is the first I've heard of any inclement weather.

 

[redheart]

This has been bothering me, from NE's interview with SB on Friday, January 29th:

Eaton: Where have they been inconsistent? Can you go through a few examples?

Bowerman: Our timeline has constantly changed. A lot of small facts – things that should be important to them, important in their memory – have changed. From who made the decision to do what or who cooked that morning or who took a fishing pole down to the creek – just minor changes like that constantly changing.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

They only had one breakfast at camp, the morning of Deorr's disappearance. How is it possible to not be certain about who cooked breakfast?

I just can't figure out how breakfast could be a sensitive issue, that DK and JM would lie about it, unless something happened to little Deorr Thursday night or first thing Friday morning after all.

 

[Eileen730]

Then the parents were well advised to take just these two people with them on their camping-/fishing adventure ...?

I think the parents just showed up on this camping trip.
I don't think it was their camping trip?
Seems this is where GGP liked to fish and IR went along with him.

 

[ILOKAL]

What I find very odd is, that 4 adults go for camping and fishing and if one of the men -IR- as expected has good luck to catch a fish (while JM/VDK/little Deorr were at Leandore) then 2 others (JM/VDK) after returning to the campside have to get shown, where the third man got this fish.
This explanation for going to the creek I've read seems to be totally absurd to me.

That hasn't been MY personal experience through years of fishing. When someone is catching fish, it is quite common for others to inquire not only where the fish are biting, but questions such as what are you using for bait, what pound line are you using, did you catch them on the top or on the bottom, did you use a bobber, etc. Very common indeed!

 

[LisaB]

The sheriff has stated that no one saw DeOrr with 100% certainty at any point on the trip.

Bowerman: I’m fairly confident DeOrr was there. I can’t find anybody that says they’re 100 percent positive he was there, but I feel fairly confident he was there at one time.

That gets me. If there had been several families and half a dozen kids, I can see someone who had never met Deorr being uncertain if they saw him. But he was the ONLY kid there. I would have expected the parents to "introduce" IR to Deorr so the boy would know who he was and that he was not a "stranger".

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[ILOKAL]

I think the parents just showed up on this camping trip.
I don't think it was their camping trip?
Seems this is where GGP liked to fish and IR went along with him.

I was under the impression that Jessica's mother (GGPA's daughter) had asked them to accompany GGPA on the trip. I think Bowerman might have said that early on. Anyone else remember that?

 

[ILOKAL]

That gets me. If there had been several families and half a dozen kids, I can see someone who had never met Deorr being uncertain if they saw him. But he was the ONLY kid there. I would have expected the parents to "introduce" IR to Deorr so the boy would know who he was and that he was not a "stranger".

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When Bowerman said that, I think he was referring to people other than the four that were there. He just wasn't very clear, IMO.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Just for a moment, let's put two adults and a toddler in the back of a suburban to sleep for a night. Picture this scene...

Its chilly at night so we have a lot of blankets or sleeping bags, maybe foam to sleep on, stuffies (stuffed monkey, maybe others), diaper bag maybe, pillows... It's very cramped (especially with a wiggly toddler) but comfy cozy.

Now what if the toddler get tangled up and smothers? What if the toddler was smothered with intention and only one adult was behind it, fooling the other into thinking it was an accident, or worse, their fault - maybe for rolling over and pinning the toddler in some way. What if the toddler was given medicine to encourage sleep, for example cough syrup.

They wake up in the morning, likely very early since its light out and birds are chirping and maybe it's uncomfortable. Oh no! What to do now ... ? Get hauling to ditch the bedding and baby? Perhaps with a trip to the store as a cover? Then, on return, immediately structure a situation that would allow for the toddler to " wander off": Oh he's asleep in his seat, we can just leave the door open and go for a quick explore or see some minnows, or smoke some weed in the bushes, whatever. He'll "be good with GGP" right nearby after all.

This is just a what-if scenario that exists in my head, I'm not tied to it by any means. This allows for the toddler to "be seen" at "one point" at the campground, but not again after the trip to the store. Maybe that makes it impossible (IR) and maybe not (IR mistaken). Thoughts anyone?