ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #18

[Aeronomy]

D:

The following is what I based my belief on. I assumed he discovered this when he left to call because I had not heard of another solo trip.


that we don't know is...I come to find, I didn't know the area, and I didn't know, I ..there, it's very open but you can't see much ...there's a road that goes up and along the top - we're camped underneath the reservoir, basically right below it, and you can go up above the reservoir, and I didn't even know the road was, did that, I didn't know the road was up there, and as I travelled up there myself, I could've found out [?] I could see everything that was going on at the campsite, but you can't see out - you can't see up, you can't see round and if anyone comes to the bottom of your camp ground you can't even see they are...
interviewer: So they could've come to your...
D: they could've come in and you could never know it.

He could have found out about that after the fact. Any number of the people searching that day could have told him about it leading him to going up there himself after hearing about it. He could have realized that at any point prior to the interview, it wouldn't necessarily have been prior to DeOrr being reported missing.

 

[Aeronomy]

We do NOT know the causes of any memory loss that may be at play in this case. There are a multitude of possible causes and we do not know which might apply. Here's what Sheriff Bowerman had to say on that issue:

from:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12319129#post12319129

18:04
SB: You know he seems like a really nice gentleman. He’s got some health issues and some memory issues so…to say to the best of his ability has he always been real clear with us? No. Um...I think he struggles, um…but I can’t say that he’s being deceitful. I just think he struggles with his memory.

Recent posts in that regard have been removed so they do not get mistaken as established fact further down the road.

Doesn't that mean, regardless of his health and memory issues, he still has not been clear with them to the best of his ability?

 

[bluesneakers]

A red herring could be the close to nap time bit. Wouldn't the long midday ride back to the campsite put almost any toddler to sleep, especially one so close to his naptime anyway?

I think saying it was close to naptime gives them a good reason to have left him with GGP. They can say it wasn't just about wanting to go off and explore on their own, it was about exploring while he was hanging with GGP and getting ready to take his nap.

eta: It also means he didn't go missing on their watch.

 

[CanadianWells]

D:

The following is what I based my belief on. I assumed he discovered this when he left to call because I had not heard of another solo trip.


that we don't know is...I come to find, I didn't know the area, and I didn't know, I ..there, it's very open but you can't see much ...there's a road that goes up and along the top - we're camped underneath the reservoir, basically right below it, and you can go up above the reservoir, and I didn't even know the road was, did that, I didn't know the road was up there, and as I travelled up there myself, I could've found out [?] I could see everything that was going on at the campsite, but you can't see out - you can't see up, you can't see round and if anyone comes to the bottom of your camp ground you can't even see they are...
interviewer: So they could've come to your...
D: they could've come in and you could never know it.

im not sure what to say... We can agree to disagree? They're not in the same part of the interview, and that quote doesn't reference the call, nor was it in the same part of the interview as when he discussed the call. I could well be wrong. It's been known to happen, often! Lol. I took this in relation to him searching because he was talking about the search there. Imho, they're both being less than truthful, he says things out of chronological order thoughout his interviews, and I don't really trust anything he says. I find his descriptions of events vague, jumbled, and confusing, and I think that's part of what's driving us all nuts: nothing is clear or defined, and it's really hard to nail down a timeline, or imagine where anyone was. That throws up huge red flags to me. Regardless, I don't think anyone can definitively say they're right or wrong here, and I'm not after a victory, so please accept my apology if I came across that way-- I'm definitely trying to discuss, not
Win you over to my side.

 

[ClaireNC]

Doesn't that mean, regardless of his health and memory issues, he still has not been clear with them to the best of his ability?

I didn't get the impression that was what he meant when I listened to the interview. He was saying that he has answered to the best of his ability. His answers have not always been clear, due to his memory issues, not because he was being deceitful. Here is the link to the interview. You can just go to around the 18 minute point and listen from there. It takes on a very different meaning when you hear him say it, vs. reading the transcript.

 

[persimmon]

He could have found out about that after the fact. Any number of the people searching that day could have told him about it leading him to going up there himself after hearing about it. He could have realized that at any point prior to the interview, it wouldn't necessarily have been prior to DeOrr being reported missing.

I just got stuck on that idea in the beginning I guess but after rereading the transcript I can see there is no definitive answer to when he discovered the road.

 

[Hoosier952]

I figured both parents would likely know exactly where they could get a cell signal everywhere around that campsite. If they wanted to access the internet/sm/whatever, they would have needed some reception. Same if they needed to make calls or text anyone. I'm guessing they were still young enough that texting around the clock is a popular thing to do. They were out in the middle of nowhere with an old man and a complete stranger and (maybe) a toddler. I doubt they were having the time of their lives chatting with their company.

 

[persimmon]

im not sure what to say... We can agree to disagree? They're not in the same part of the interview, and that quote doesn't reference the call, nor was it in the same part of the interview as when he discussed the call. I could well be wrong. It's been known to happen, often! Lol. I took this in relation to him searching because he was talking about the search there. Imho, they're both being less than truthful, he says things out of chronological order thoughout his interviews, and I don't really trust anything he says. I find his descriptions of events vague, jumbled, and confusing, and I think that's part of what's driving us all nuts: nothing is clear or defined, and it's really hard to nail down a timeline, or imagine where anyone was. That throws up huge red flags to me. Regardless, I don't think anyone can definitively say they're right or wrong here, and I'm not after a victory, so please accept my apology if I came across that way-- I'm definitely trying to discuss, not
Win you over to my side.

Agreed...
I really had that idea fixed in my mind but I think you are right. It's so unfortunate that his narrative is so wordy but says so little.
Peace

 

[Arnie M]

Yeah the campground and reservoir are in a valley between two quite high peaks:

Yours is the best map-picture yet . Thanks

 

[bessie]

And now there's supposedly 3 911 calls, one of which was a dropped call, which means someone made an unsuccessful call. If DK didn't even try, and JM was successful...who made the 3rd attempt?

DK did call 911. The dropped call might have been a first attempt by JM.

 

[ClaireNC]

Agreed...
I really had that idea fixed in my mind but I think you are right. It's so unfortunate that his narrative is so wordy but says so little.
Peace

Don't want to belabor this, just trying to be helpful. I have rough transcript of the long interview with the parents. Here is what VDK says about the 911 call. It is right at the beginning of the interview.

"D : 2.36 when she called and I was in the truck hauling down to the road trying to get service because I didn't think one bar would get it. So I, she got very very lucky. I was blessed that she was able to get service because I didn't think, i didn't want to try and risk getting half way through my talking to 911 and have it cut off. So I went down to where I knew I could get a little service, about a half mile down the road. Uh, we searched for - after about twenty minutes in a dead panic, not knowing where he was in such a small area, and not knowing, never being there, I knew I was in trouble. Um, so we decided to call search and rescue, uh, and that's when I drove down. She tried getting a signal out - um, as soon as I got a hold of the,, I kind of, they told me that she was on the other line with them and they had our location, and they were on our way. They, they were amazing..."

 

[ClaireNC]

DK did call 911. The dropped call might have been a first attempt by JM.

Do we know if the third call (which was placed first) was a dropped call? It seems likely, just wondering if that has ever been clarified.

 

[bessie]

Do we know if the third call (which was placed first) was a dropped call? It seems likely, just wondering if that has ever been clarified.

No, we don't know if any of the three calls were dropped. Klein said the calls were at 14:22, 14:26 and 14:28. Those times are really close. It's not an unreasonable suggestion, but that's all it is right now, afaik.

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/937132659702652

 

[gliving]

From the Q&A of Klein, this question struck me as unusual. Klein doesn't want to comment on it at all, when in reality, none of the vehicles even had a trunk. I'll assume he generalized to mean the entire vehicle. Agree?


January 21st, 2016
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...s-to-ask-the-deorr-kunz-private-investigator/


Eaton: Melissa asks, “Have the trunks of the vehicles been checked for scent or evidence?”

Klein: I’m not gonna comment on that whatsoever.

 

[Little Ol Me]

I think that JM did place the dropped call. (If that's what it was.

From the first interview...DK says..... "She tried getting a signal out" - um, as soon as I got a hold of the,, I kind of, they told me that she was on the other line with them and they had our location, and they were on our way. They, they were amazing..."

Just to add, I think JM made an attempt that failed, at 14:22, and that's when DK decided to haul down the road for a better signal.

 

[bessie]

From the Q&A of Klein, this question struck me as unusual. Klein doesn't want to comment on it at all, when in reality, none of the vehicles even had a trunk. I'll assume he generalized to mean the entire vehicle. Agree?


January 21st, 2016
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...s-to-ask-the-deorr-kunz-private-investigator/


Eaton: Melissa asks, “Have the trunks of the vehicles been checked for scent or evidence?”

Klein: I’m not gonna comment on that whatsoever.

I agree, he was referring to the vehicles in general. But we know SB told Nate Eaton back in August that the vehicles were checked thoroughly.

7:28
Nate Eaton:
“The family says their vehicles and cars were searched, which it sounds like in any case that would be standard operating procedure.”

7:39
Sheriff Bowerman:
“You know, even though we searched them that night you know you always second guess, Did we miss something? Could he have been in another compartment ? Did we not search everything? So yeah, everything has been searched at least a couple times, if not more.”

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12007596#post12007596

 

[DexterMorgan]

I figured both parents would likely know exactly where they could get a cell signal everywhere around that campsite. If they wanted to access the internet/sm/whatever, they would have needed some reception. Same if they needed to make calls or text anyone. I'm guessing they were still young enough that texting around the clock is a popular thing to do. They were out in the middle of nowhere with an old man and a complete stranger and (maybe) a toddler. I doubt they were having the time of their lives chatting with their company.

Agree. Family were suppose to join them that weekend. So they should have had a good notion of their cell phone signals. Just in case they had to make or receive calls from the family. Good catch.

I'm sure they would say Hey mom when you come up this way; Can you please bring xyz. Jmo

 

[giagreen]

Good questions, I don't think it's ever been said. The sheriff seems pretty sure about VDK "quizzing" the clerk, so it is likely that there was an officer or detective there with him when he approached her. Since SB knows that VDK lies about things, I don't think he would take his word for it and comment on it in an interview as a fact.

Sounds like DeOrr stuck to his guns while the clerk said nope didn't she him sp they dragged his butt down there.

Idk the way I have looked at it is.....regardless on if the clerk remembers doesn't matter to me. Because at first she said she didn't see them and then remembered when he was there when we do in fact know they where there.

 

[giagreen]

Seems strange JM doesn't know how tall her son is. That said, she goes from sounding upset at the start of the call to sounding almost casual in under a minute. Also strange that she asks no questions, the most obvious being when will you be here?
Just relistened to the call and it seems suspicious on a number of levels.

Oh come on....lol I have no idea how tall my two and half year old is. I have a hard time remembering he's 30 months old too.

 

[persimmon]

Oh come on....lol I have no idea how tall my two and half year old is. I have a hard time remembering he's 30 months old too.

Height is something many parents chart so it seems like a parent should know. It is also something updated at regular checkups with a pediatrician. Jmo...I find it strange.