ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #19

[MistyM]

I found another doozy from VDK's attorney Browning. He's implying that the parents refused the reward because they couldn't afford $20000. We know Vilt was the one who offered up the reward. How many doozies has Browning offered now> VDK searching 10 days straight> VDK searching inside bear dens> and now the reward misinformation.

1/30/2016
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_c4a3d0ab-769a-5bad-b810-374322a60d39.html

"However, Kunz Sr.’s attorney, Allen Browning of Idaho Falls, said that in instances where an investigator wants to issue a large reward without the client’s consent, there can be some outrage because the cost of the reward can end up being paid out by the entirely by clients.

“If you are going to advertise a large reward like that, you want to make sure your client can handle that,” Browning said."


September 18, 2015
http://590kid.com/2015/09/18/tips-about-missing-toddler-forwarded-to-idaho-fusion-center/
03:37
FV: I’m offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to the location and recovery of the little boy.

because god forbid you can't spare 20k to find your kid, right?

 

[Unsolved]

Is 1 minute 56 seconds (or less, depending on time of VDK's call) enough time for someone to have gone 1/2 mile down the road?

I'd like to know this too. I still think I keep missing something important about their story and the timing.

 

[TxJan1971]

What about the hour IR was not accounted for, after Deorr's disappearance? It seems odd to report that, because I think it's reasonable to presume that Isaac was searching, and surely they would have split up...

Where was this reported? Do you have a source for this info?

Do you know who reported it? The only place I read anything like this was on SM.

I may be totally reading things backwards, but from the questions to Klein article:

Eaton: Lisa Marie says, “Is it true that Isaac disappeared for over an hour after DeOrr disappeared or is this just another rumor?”
Klein: Again, that goes into the actual investigative issues that we are investigating. We’re not wiling to discuss that at this time but I would classify that probably as not a rumor.

Add this response from SB (previously posted here by Bessie, in response to a question about IR and the hour missing, etc (more at link) under TM:


1/26/15
TM‎ to Lemhi County Sheriff's Office

Sheriff Bowerman, I have followed this investigation very closely from the beginning. I have some questions that I'd like you to answer.

<snipped for brevity>

...Mr. R didn't cooperate, didn't take a polygraph, and was missing for over an hour. Where was he? ...

Comments
Lemhi County Sheriff's Office (SB): First of all, you have your information wrong. Mr R....wand, not R...wald, has cooperated and taken a polygraph. It was inconclusive, because of medical condition, and we were aware that it would be inconclusive. The time he was missing, was while he was looking for Deorr. He could not have walked far enough to get outside our search area. FLIR was used by a helicopter that night. Deorr was not in the search area, and my two scent dogs should of found him within that 3 mile radius that we initially searched. Deorr was not there. I have never said that I was going to charge anyone with a homicide....check your facts. All I want is the truth, and the parents are being less than truthful. That comes from the experts..........
Sheriff Bowerman

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice/

 

[1&2&3]

What parent would turn down someone offering a reward to find their missing child?
If the PI said he was paying for it, I couldn't respond fast enough. At that point, my thought would be just find my child!

However, if you had something to do in your child's disappearance, the last thing you want is money offered to find him.

It is one or the other. No other way to look at it.

Right there, when DK and JM refused the reward money, I knew they were involved in their sons disappearance.

My opinions only.

 

[Beezneez]

I found another doozy from VDK's attorney Browning. He's implying that the parents refused the reward because they couldn't afford $20000. We know Vilt was the one who offered up the reward. How many doozies has Browning offered now> VDK searching 10 days straight> VDK searching inside bear dens> and now the reward misinformation.

1/30/2016
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_c4a3d0ab-769a-5bad-b810-374322a60d39.html

"However, Kunz Sr.&#8217;s attorney, Allen Browning of Idaho Falls, said that in instances where an investigator wants to issue a large reward without the client&#8217;s consent, there can be some outrage because the cost of the reward can end up being paid out by the entirely by clients.

&#8220;If you are going to advertise a large reward like that, you want to make sure your client can handle that,&#8221; Browning said."


September 18, 2015
http://590kid.com/2015/09/18/tips-about-missing-toddler-forwarded-to-idaho-fusion-center/
03:37
FV: I&#8217;m offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to the location and recovery of the little boy.

Have you looked through his website? I just personally don't buy what this guy is selling. I guess a criminal defense attorney is supposed to spin enough stuff up to plant a big maybe in the in the jurors minds, he seems to be hard at work at it already. I also wonder about the rate he is going to rack up for a legal defense of Vernal compared to the 20k reward that no one could cough up.

 

[Onebest]

I have a question...If DeOrr did in fact pass away and a person "handled" him to bury him or whatever, wouldn't a cadaver dog "alert" on the person? ....I suppose the person could have showered afterwards cleaning off any scent. I don't know how this works. One-Best could probably answer this accurately.

And another thought: Say DeOrr passed away.....They could have gotten another person involved in a hand off/removal...and really not know "Where" he is (but would still be involved in his disappearance.)

Sorry Mickshawn, I am way behind and someone might have answered already but thought you would like this link anyway. I was trying to find a definitive response on line and guess what I found on WS!! This is a great answer from Oriah with a slap by sarx

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-152258.html
Oriah
10-22-2011, 08:33 AM
Adding this post over here, so as to try and keep the threads clean.
So how soon can a cadaver dog make a hit?
I always thought it was around an hour after death but have no idea where I heard it. I had a friend use her dogs during an earthquake so maybe from her.>
Decomp scent begins the moment a person dies. But there is a 'window' of confusion (in scent discrimination) when a scent trail turns to decomp. So for example- I go missing. A trailing dog is given my pillowcase as a scent article. That dog is trained to scent on ME (using scent particles). Then it turns out that I'm probably deceased. My other pillowcase is given as a scent article. THAT dog (a different dog) is now scenting off of the same particles, but it has been trained as an HRD dog.
At what time an HRD dog is able to accurately alert on a specific decomp scent depends almost entirely on what kind of training they have had.

One dog may be trained to detect decomp from chemical changes inside the body. One dog may be trained to detect gasses produced during decomp, and released from the body. And just to complicate further lol- one dog may be trained to detect cell(s) that have decomposed to a specific age and are unique to an individual. HTH.

(sarx is gonna slap me.)

 

[aaarrrggghhh]

&#8220;I&#8217;ve represented thousands and thousands of people accused of crimes,&#8221; Browning said. &#8220;I have no doubt in my mind that Mr. Kunz is innocent. I&#8217;m just happy I can help this gentleman out and be there for him.&#8221;

Innocent of what? Is he saying he believes that his client is being truthful and that 4 polygraphs and LE and PI's are all wrong? I find his declaration of innocence kind of odd ...

 

[scmom]

Innocent of telling the truth?

 

[haven71]

Yeah, he might have not been able to WALK outside the radius, but he could DRIVE. That could be a quick headstart if it was decided he needed to hide the body before searchers got there...I'm starting to get a little wary about IR.

Add this response from SB (previously posted here by Bessie, in response to a question about IR and the hour missing, etc (more at link) under TM:


1/26/15
TM&#8206; to Lemhi County Sheriff's Office

Sheriff Bowerman, I have followed this investigation very closely from the beginning. I have some questions that I'd like you to answer.

<snipped for brevity>

...Mr. R didn't cooperate, didn't take a polygraph, and was missing for over an hour. Where was he? ...

Comments
Lemhi County Sheriff's Office (SB): First of all, you have your information wrong. Mr R....wand, not R...wald, has cooperated and taken a polygraph. It was inconclusive, because of medical condition, and we were aware that it would be inconclusive. The time he was missing, was while he was looking for Deorr. He could not have walked far enough to get outside our search area. FLIR was used by a helicopter that night. Deorr was not in the search area, and my two scent dogs should of found him within that 3 mile radius that we initially searched. Deorr was not there. I have never said that I was going to charge anyone with a homicide....check your facts. All I want is the truth, and the parents are being less than truthful. That comes from the experts..........
Sheriff Bowerman

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice/

 

[Hoosier952]

I'd like to know this too. I still think I keep missing something important about their story and the timing.

In regards to whether or not ~2 minutes is enough time to get a half mile. I'd say it would be fairly easy.

What parent would turn down someone offering a reward to find their missing child?
If the PI said he was paying for it, I couldn't respond fast enough. At that point, my thought would be just find my child!

However, if you had something to do in your child's disappearance, the last thing you want is money offered to find him.

It is one or the other. No other way to look at it.

Right there, when DK and JM refused the reward money, I knew they were involved in their sons disappearance.

My opinions only.

I know I'd take Vilt up on the offer and then I'd put every penny I could afford to give in that fund and then hand out coffee cans to every business in the area to collect more. I'd also make sure the missing flyer had correct information. I'd be interviewing with every news outlet every spare second of my life. I'd put family and friends on sm detail sharing flyers. Pretty much I'd do everything just the opposite of what happened here.

 

[TxJan1971]

Yeah, he might have not been able to WALK outside the radius, but he could DRIVE. That could be a quick headstart if it was decided he needed to hide the body before searchers got there...I'm starting to get a little wary about IR.

I'm not sure he *IR* has a license... (?), and he would have had to drive GGP's or DR's vehicle to drive anywhere, right?

 

[Hoosier952]

Innocent of what? Is he saying he believes that his client is being truthful and that 4 polygraphs and LE and PI's are all wrong? I find his declaration of innocence kind of odd ...



[/FONT][/COLOR]

He's getting paid dearly for that statement, I'm sure. He doesn't have to believe his client, he just has to put doubt in the minds of the jury. Barf.

 

[desert-blue]

I found another doozy from VDK's attorney Browning. He's implying that the parents refused the reward because they couldn't afford $20000. We know Vilt was the one who offered up the reward. How many doozies has Browning offered now> VDK searching 10 days straight> VDK searching inside bear dens> and now the reward misinformation.

1/30/2016
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_c4a3d0ab-769a-5bad-b810-374322a60d39.html

"However, Kunz Sr.&#8217;s attorney, Allen Browning of Idaho Falls, said that in instances where an investigator wants to issue a large reward without the client&#8217;s consent, there can be some outrage because the cost of the reward can end up being paid out by the entirely by clients.

&#8220;If you are going to advertise a large reward like that, you want to make sure your client can handle that,&#8221; Browning said."


September 18, 2015
http://590kid.com/2015/09/18/tips-about-missing-toddler-forwarded-to-idaho-fusion-center/
03:37
FV: I&#8217;m offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to the location and recovery of the little boy.

This may have already been mentioned, but this is a doozy of a statement as well:

"DeOrr actually hired a private investigator and paid him a lot of money to find out, actually try to find his son. And, to his dismay, uh, he hasn't given him any information, but apparently has made some kind of a statement, uh, that uh, he hasn't found anything to contradict what the police are saying. He's made that statement without even talking to the guy that hired him to find his son. Uh, I find that totally irresponsible."

I find Browning's statements to be totally irresponsible. You'd think an attorney might check his "facts" before stating them publicly. It seems as though his client might be giving him information that is less than truthful....

ETA: Oops, forgot the link. It's from the radio interview, Part 2, at the beginning: http://590kid.com/2016/01/26/deorr-kunz-sr-attorney-speaks-with-kid-in-extended-interview/

 

[jnblsm]

I'm not sure he *IR* has a license... (?), and he would have had to drive GGP's or DR's vehicle to drive anywhere, right?

It doesn't necessarily take a driver's license to drive a car.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[scmom]

Whose vehicle would IR have driven?

 

[haven71]

I thought of that too. But I think in a remote area practically anyone could drive. My ex-husband let his 10 year old granddaughter drive in his big pickup all over his ranch. In order to push the gas pedal, she practically stood up in the seat in order to see over the dashboard.I think he could've driven outside the radius, he didn't need to know any traffic laws or anything to do that.

I'm not sure he *IR* has a license... (?), and he would have had to drive GGP's or DR's vehicle to drive anywhere, right?

 

[haven71]

To be clear, I was suggesting that Isaac could've been assigned to take the body elsewhere on the mountain, after Deorr's death took place, so if he could push a gas pedal, turn a wheel, and a working ankle for the brake...then he could've taken Deorr's pickup. I didn't mean to imply that Isaac did something to Deorr so Vernal could have let him use the truck.

I'm not sure he *IR* has a license... (?), and he would have had to drive GGP's or DR's vehicle to drive anywhere, right?

 

[giagreen]

How do we know IR didn't have his bike with? Lots of people bring bikes camping. He seems pretty into it.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

I was listening to this again and my husband was in the room, too. He looked up from his magazine he was reading and said She sure doesn't sound excited about it.
So true!
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

I've had a child missing for a few minutes one time from my back yard. I did a quick scan and was on the phone to dispatch asking them to come quickly. I was so scared as to what had happened to him. I ended up screaming at the dispatcher to hurry up! I was young and didn't even have any idea what all could really happen.

I fell off the fence recently and these thoughts are running through my mind:

1. I think Deorr is in the water. Snake River or wherever, but just feel strongly he's probably in the water.
2. V.D.K. was saying something like he didn't think Deorr was at the campground and others saying that he was trying to detour them from looking farther there. I keep thinking maybe he's being truthful about that. Like he knows for certain Deorr isn't at the campsite.

JMO

I have to agree on the 911 call that there's no detectable sense of urgency.

What I heard sounded more like resignation and grief. I also think I hear Jessica crying softly in the background when she wasn't talking. Did anyone else hear that? :cry:

 

[Rayemonde]

Have you looked through his website? I just personally don't buy what this guy is selling. I guess a criminal defense attorney is supposed to spin enough stuff up to plant a big maybe in the in the jurors minds, he seems to be hard at work at it already. I also wonder about the rate he is going to rack up for a legal defense of Vernal compared to the 20k reward that no one could cough up.

Ha, good point... The parents never paid anything for billboards, or for a PI, or for a reward... All that was paid for by good-hearted strangers. Even though they'd done fundraising and even had an online shop, they never payed towards the billboards or anything.

But the second VK was named a suspect he coughed up to hire a lawyer to protect himself. I think that shows what his priorities are.

Plus don't forget that other doozy that VK's lawyer told - he said VK had paid a lot of money to hire a PI. That's not true, all the PI money came from donations and it wasn't VK who hired Klein.