ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[TxJan1971]

Last year Bowerman was telling search teams not to go and search for DeOrr because he was sure he wasn't there. I wonder if that has changed - hopefully he has new leads about new places to search once the snow melts.

Do you remember if that was in Oct or Jan when he said that to Tricia?

Maybe he knew (had evidence ?) baby was deceased and didn't want to waste resources until weather cleared or more results from FBI received before taking any next steps? Remember, very early on there was a temporary halt and then a scaled down effort. I always wondered if maybe something was detected way back when and they simply ran through all the motions to cover their bases. They searched the reservoir because 2 initial dogs went there before cremains were dumped Sunday, they began their "criminal investigation" search on the 4, they arranged for the drones for any possible "criminal investigation" down the road, referred to the baby as a "victim" very early on (vs a missing child as in all the other similar cases) referred to the campsite as "a crime scene," etc. One of those alone is negligible. All of the above, questionable for me. IMOOO.

Or, maybe he simply didn't have any evidence whatsoever that the child was even there, so he declined. He may have felt since he covered everything so thoroughly and 18 dogs couldn't find anything, why waste more resources now? I dunno...

I do hope he allows NCMEC dogs to search as well as work with Klein to see if the Molly Miller cadaver dogs can be brought in. JMO

 

[pepelepolecat]

Sorry if my post was unclear, I wasn't meaning to imply it had to do with which agency was doing the searching, or with any other case.

My point is that Deorr was assumed initially to be lost in the woods. Therefore, did LE have time that night to do a thorough search of the vehicles and the camper before the family left in them. If they were going by the claims he had wondered away or taken by wildlife, I would think that searching out there would have been their priority.

ETA: I'm actually quite sure LE made it a point to thoroughly search every vehicle before they were allowed to leave in them, it's just something I was thinking about. I always question things, one of my bad habits, lol.

Little kids like to hide-and-seek, so I do think the S&R people probably gave a pretty good look to the vehicles there, in the wheel wells and any inside cupboards/compartments, just to make sure he wasn't right under their feet. At least, I hope they did. moo

 

[Trident]

Last year Bowerman was telling search teams not to go and search for DeOrr because he was sure he wasn't there. I wonder if that has changed - hopefully he has new leads about new places to search once the snow melts.

Bowerman says/has said a lot of things. I take his round-about way of speaking with a large grain of salt.

My opinion only

 

[persimmon]

There is no real search for DeOrr...investigation as it was is over. Now it is a criminal investigation aimed at the parents. SB is not asking anybody who saw DeOrr to call his office and Klein isnt looking for DeOrr either. Only the parents and their supporters are still using that language or discussing DeOrr as missing or lost. LE is not.

They know he is dead and I believe strongly they know general areas where they are likely to find him. In the meantime, their energies are focused on the criminal case against the parents. As it stands, they will both equally be charged when the time comes. I predict once they are arrested, they will start talking. Until then, they will continue their charade.

 

[MBK]

I wonder what the living arrangements are and if someone is "looking after" GGPA. I would say that he is vulnerable, even if accepting that descriptions of his health and mental state may or may not be exaggerated.

Not that it has anything to do with it, over the last few days I found myself thinking about a time I was in a restaurant with my parents and overheard a rather disturbing conversation between a couple and their grandmother. They were telling her that they were putting her money into an "old account" of theirs, but assured her over and over that it would "still be her money". She seemed upset and nervous about this, but they told her over and over again it would be hers. I surmised that they had probably gotten her to hand over her house to them, etc., etc., and were putting her in a nursing home. I could tell she KNEW that something was wrong, but it was 2 against one, and she was powerless to stop this happening.

I am from a small town originally. But even in that small town, there is a person with town gov't who is an advocate for senior citizens and looks out for them.

We don't really know the contents of his 911 call or anything, really, about his role during the camping trip, but he could well have been "silenced" and told what to think (as well as what he should "remember". . . but doesn't (?!)

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

What crime? Bowerman said he doesn't know if there WAS a crime.

So then they are suspects to nothing?

 

[pepelepolecat]

What crime? Bowerman said he doesn't know if there WAS a crime.

Then why name anyone as a suspect?

eta: That strikes me as particularly reckless and potentially slanderous, if that's what he did. imo. I don't believe he'd put himself and his department in that position. also imo.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Klein is so tight lipped on the case which is so opposite of his earlier behavior. That says a great deal to me. He's definitely working more closely with LE or at the least he's communicating more with them. It seems they have requested that he not share information. Jmo but the change is drastic.

In the comments on his page (under the latest post where a family member asks for it to be removed): "We are attempting to accomodate the families wishes." The family member responds: "We did want a statement made. We appreciate that one was made! Thank you for that. We are just not liking all the backlash and drama and hatred from the public. We have had enough of the family bashing. Your number is at home. I will call later! Thank you, Philip. We appreciate all that you are doing to find baby DeOrr."

Since this is a public page (KI) and post, I hope this is okay to post. Please let me know or delete if not!

 

[ILOKAL]

They think the same thing about baby Rainn.

Of COURSE they do! Oh, which reminds me. That sheriff said he is only allowed to send one item in at a time to Quantico for testing.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I was recently reading up on Bianca Jones' case. Her father still insists she was abducted but he was convicted of her murder despite no body ever being found. In his appeal he argued that the fact cadaver dogs alerted to his car shouldn't have been admissible as evidence. The judges disagreed.

BBM:



Link to court opinion (pdf file) can be found here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...2-Detroit-2-Dec-2011-4-*D-Lane-guilty*/page81

It is bittersweet to read the above with knowing what happened to Martin Grime with Keela (and Eddie) in Portugal. I'd love to know what Sarx thinks....

Seems to me that either the dogs are an amazing tool or a circus act depending on the case. It must frustrate the people dedicated to training the dogs.

 

[ILOKAL]

You really think they are going to come out and tell us exactly what they think happened?!

I DON'T expect Bowerman to come out and say, "I have no clue - I have ABSOLUTELY no clue!"

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I DON'T expect Bowerman to come out and say, "I have no clue - I have ABSOLUTELY no clue!"

From my listening to Bowerman the last few months I have the impression the man just doesn't know how to not be nice in anything he says.

For me when he says what you quote (in the EIN interview), his facial expression tells me a lot more. Could turn out I'm very wrong and I guess I'll have to wait and see.

 

[Dee10]

Wow! And he also said the parents "absolutely" know where DeOrr is!

Exactly, so I my thoughts are he was referring to accidental or homicide, or perhaps which parent to charge with what.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I DON'T expect Bowerman to come out and say, "I have no clue - I have ABSOLUTELY no clue!"

IMO what counts is that he said JM and DK DO have a clue.

 

[giagreen]

Then why name anyone as a suspect?

eta: That strikes me as particularly reckless and potentially slanderous, if that's what he did. imo. I don't believe he'd put himself and his department in that position. also imo.

I beleive SB has answered this for us. He said he has come out with them being suspects because he beleives what the experts have said. He never said that there was physical evidence.
Believing the experts when you yourself is Sheriff isn't exactly reckless IMHO
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[Donjeta]

I DON'T expect Bowerman to come out and say, "I have no clue - I have ABSOLUTELY no clue!"

So what's your theory then? Deorr wandered off and there's no crime and the sheriff has no evidence that there even was a crime and absolutely no clue what happened and who was responsible, but he declared the parents to be suspects because...what? He's getting senile and thought they were talking about a different case? He didn't like the way the parents kicked a dog and thought they need a lesson? He's capricious and says things at random? He's a scientist and wanted to experiment what happens if you declare someone a suspect without the faintest reason? Because he's just evil and wanted to ruin grieving parents' lives? Because the experts at the FBI are incompetent fools and he believes them?

 

[pepelepolecat]

I beleive SB has answered this for us. He said he has come out with them being suspects because he beleives what the experts says never that there was physical evidence.

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Then if the experts say there was a crime, why would he not agree with that? This would mean that there's no evidence or indication of a crime, and he's going solely with someone else's hunch. I just find that perplexing and irrational.

I'm confused as to why people are now saying that SB doesn't know or believe that there's even been a crime when everything over the last several weeks points to the opposite. Then again, a lot in this case confuses me. Clearly, it doesn't take much to confuse me.

moo, moo, moooooooo

 

[giagreen]

Then if the experts say there was a crime, why would he not agree with that? This would mean that there's no evidence or indication of a crime, and he's going solely with someone else's hunch. I just find that perplexing and irrational.

I'm confused as to why people are now saying that SB doesn't know or believe that there's even been a crime when everything over the last several weeks points to the opposite. Then again, a lot in this case confuses me. Clearly, it doesn't take much to confuse me.

I think it's because SB has said things like this when asked if DeOrr could be stuck in the water some where.

"You know I dwelled on that fact for a long time but I have to trust the experts.They say when both people failed the same questions multiple times, there is something there and they’re being less than truthful, so I have to trust the experts."

I mean if he had any other evidence I doubt he'd dwell on that. And then he goes on to say it's what the expert say. I don't think it's crazy to beleive in the FBI if your a Sheriff. I've always believed what he has told us. I just don't think he has a whole lot physical evidence. He's also said some other pretty telling things imo.

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[Dee10]

Of COURSE they do! Oh, which reminds me. That sheriff said he is only allowed to send one item in at a time to Quantico for testing.

I have never heard of only being able to send one item at a time to Quantico. I'm sorry, do you have a link for this?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

So what's your theory then? Deorr wandered off and there's no crime and the sheriff has no evidence that there even was a crime and absolutely no clue what happened and who was responsible, but he declared the parents to be suspects because...what? He's getting senile and thought they were talking about a different case? He didn't like the way the parents kicked a dog and thought they need a lesson? He's capricious and says things at random? He's a scientist and wanted to experiment what happens if you declare someone a suspect without the faintest reason? Because he's just evil and wanted to ruin grieving parents' lives? Because the experts at the FBI are incompetent fools and he believes them?

:goodpost: