ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[Rayemonde]

Do you remember if that was in Oct or Jan when he said that to Tricia?

Maybe he knew (had evidence ?) baby was deceased and didn't want to waste resources until weather cleared or more results from FBI received before taking any next steps? Remember, very early on there was a temporary halt and then a scaled down effort. I always wondered if maybe something was detected way back when and they simply ran through all the motions to cover their bases. They searched the reservoir because 2 initial dogs went there before cremains were dumped Sunday, they began their "criminal investigation" search on the 4, they arranged for the drones for any possible "criminal investigation" down the road, referred to the baby as a "victim" very early on (vs a missing child as in all the other similar cases) referred to the campsite as "a crime scene," etc. One of those alone is negligible. All of the above, questionable for me. IMOOO.

Or, maybe he simply didn't have any evidence whatsoever that the child was even there, so he declined. He may have felt since he covered everything so thoroughly and 18 dogs couldn't find anything, why waste more resources now? I dunno...

I do hope he allows NCMEC dogs to search as well as work with Klein to see if the Molly Miller cadaver dogs can be brought in. JMO

It was October 15th.

IMO the thing about Bowerman is, he's not going to spoon-feed us his theories, but if you engage your brain a little and use a little common sense it's not hard to see what he thinks happened.

And no, he obviously wouldn't name anyone as a suspect unless he thought a crime had been committed.

"13:13
TG: And so are there any more plans to use those cadaver dogs or any search dogs at the moment?

13:17
SB: You know, I’m still getting calls from volunteers from all over the United States offering to come in with their dogs. I’m not sure at this point we’ve uh…We’ve covered every inch literally 20-30 times. You know, I’m not sure how productive that would be, so I’ve asked them to use their resources for something that is maybe a little bit more um…fresh as far as someone going missing. You know keep their resources close for their own uh…for their own cases and uh and I feel like we’ve done an adequate and a complete search."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

 

[ashes6113]

Hi all-- I've been away from the thread for quite a while, just due to having come across one of those times when life just gets crazy and in the way. I did not know that 3 911 calls had been made and that one was made by GGP. I thought the only calls came from JM and VDK. Could someone help me understand-- GGP also made a call? When did this come out? I thought he was too, well, unwell to really understand what was going on let alone make a 911 call? I deeply apologize for being so behind and a brief summary would be helpful!

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

I will be surprised if SB comes back on this forum after the bashing and ridicule that has taken place here. Its embarrassing to me. Jmo

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Hi all-- I've been away from the thread for quite a while, just due to having come across one of those times when life just gets crazy and in the way. I did not know that 3 911 calls had been made and that one was made by GGP. I thought the only calls came from JM and VDK. Could someone help me understand-- GGP also made a call? When did this come out? I thought he was too, well, unwell to really understand what was going on let alone make a 911 call? I deeply apologize for being so behind and a brief summary would be helpful!

It was revealed by Klein on a Facebook Q&A session. You can find that here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page5

HTH.

 

[Rayemonde]

I will be surprised if SB comes back on this forum after the bashing and ridicule that has taken place here. Its embarrassing to me. Jmo

Yes, it's completely out of order imo.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

In the comments on his page (under the latest post where a family member asks for it to be removed): "We are attempting to accomodate the families wishes." The family member responds: "We did want a statement made. We appreciate that one was made! Thank you for that. We are just not liking all the backlash and drama and hatred from the public. We have had enough of the family bashing. Your number is at home. I will call later! Thank you, Philip. We appreciate all that you are doing to find baby DeOrr."

Since this is a public page (KI) and post, I hope this is okay to post. Please let me know or delete if not!

Like I said in my earlier post, the comments from family and friends are simply RABID. It's pure craziness!

 

[pepelepolecat]

I will be surprised if SB comes back on this forum after the bashing and ridicule that has taken place here. Its embarrassing to me. Jmo

I agree. He is *not* the enemy here. I feel like he's been more than fair with all of us (and that "all" includes JM and VDK). He has my respect and trust.

 

[giagreen]

I will be surprised if SB comes back on this forum after the bashing and ridicule that has taken place here. Its embarrassing to me. Jmo

How is anyone bashing him? I respect him enough to beleive what he's told us. And what he has told us is that the dogs did hit. But nothing major. That he's dwelled on the fact that DeOrr could of been stuck in the creek. He has no clue what happen but he has to trust the experts. He's also said that it's been challenging because they havent spoke with IR a whole lot. He can't rule IR out. And that the parents have been cooperative along with IR. All he's ever said to call the parents suspects is that he has to beleive the experts and that there stories have changed. I beleive him. I'm not doubting that he beleives the parents are suspects. I just simply can't rule out two other people and feel 100% good about calling two parents baby killers just based on what he's said. It leaves room for doubt.

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[giagreen]

Like I said in my earlier post, the comments from family and friends are simply RABID. It's pure craziness!

Well at some point they are allowed to defend them selfs.
How people feel the family should or shouldn't act is based on their own emotional response and belief system and is purely opinions not facts.

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[ninij9]

I married into a family whos beloved father and grandfather was wonderful, friends to all the grand babies and grand children, was in his 70s, was a pillar to the community. Everyone loved him. At 75 was considered to be frail and treated with kid gloves... It turned out dear old gramps was a full blown pedo and had committed acts against his own grandchildren. He killed himself after it got out and he admitted it. All I'm saying is, just because someone is old, or in poor health why do we assume that they couldn't be the one to have committed some act upon DeOrr? If you ask me, IR seemed almost protective of the old man. That could be seen in many ways. BTW, I am not saying anything like this happened, only that he is a POI also and no one is really exploring him here on WS.

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[ClaireNC]

I beleive SB has answered this for us. He said he has come out with them being suspects because he beleives what the experts have said. He never said that there was physical evidence.
Believing the experts when you yourself is Sheriff isn't exactly reckless IMHO

FYI...Bringing forward some recent comments from the Sheriff where he talks about evidence they have collected. I posted this yesterday.

On the topic of evidence. FWIW, Note that Klein also talked about evidence that was recently sent to Quantico in this interview. Former and Current DeOrr Kunz Investigators Discuss Case on KID Newsradio

Thursday morning, both the current and former investigators in the DeOrr Kunz Jr. case appeared on KID Newsradio. With caution, Philip Klein of Klein Investigations discusses evidence sent this week for lab testing at the FBI center in Quantico, VA as well as an ‘incident’ that led to little DeOrr’s death.

Bowerman also referenced evidence that was sent to the FBI in his recent interview with Tricia:
31:41
Bessie: And as far as the investigation aside from searching– where do you go from here?

31:48
SB: Well, we’re going to sift through some of our tips and maybe go over some of those again and make sure we didn’t miss anything. We’re still getting tips of sightings and of course that slows us down. We have to take those seriously and rule them out. Basically, we have some uh…some more evidence turned over to the FBI. We’re waiting for a report on that—some behavioral information so we just have to painstakingly go through everything and hope we can pick up on something and not miss something.

And then we have this comment from the Sheriff:
19:09
TG: Do you think the 911 calls will be made public soon? Can a citizen request copies of them now?

19:19
SB: I believe one has already been released and that was in the early stages of just him being missing, but now that we’ve determined that there’s possible foul play, I’ve asked my Dispatch Commander not to release any more copies of that but there are copies out there because I think it could be…it could be evidence.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12319129#post12319129

 

[giagreen]

FYI...Bringing forward some recent comments from the Sheriff where he talks about evidence they have collected. I posted this yesterday.

But that's not physical evidence. He even says he sent stuff off to the behavioral analyst. I'm not disputing that fact.
I'm talking about blood on an ax. Hair on a shovel. Blood found in homes, cars...ect I don't believe they have much.

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[ClaireNC]

How is anyone bashing him? I respect him enough to beleive what he's told us. And what he has told us is that the dogs did hit. But nothing major. That he's dwelled on the fact that DeOrr could of been stuck in the creek. He has no clue what happen but he has to trust the experts. He's also said that it's been challenging because they havent spoke with IR a whole lot. He can't rule IR out. And that the parents have been cooperative along with IR. All he's ever said to call the parents suspects is that he has to beleive the experts and that there stories have changed. I beleive him. I'm not doubting that he beleives the parents are suspects. I just simply can't rule out two other people and feel 100% good about calling two parents baby killers just based on what he's said. It leaves room for doubt.

It seems to me that you might be missing the fact that the case has evolved over time. New EVIDENCE has been collected and the sheriff's opinion of things has changed. He is no longer dwelling on Deorr being stuck in the creek. However, the creek and the reservoir were two of the most logical places to look in the beginning. He never said that his decision to name them as suspects is entirely based on the FBI's report. In fact, he said this in January:

"Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told Dateline it's because of DeOrr's parents' inconsistent stories that they are being named suspects at this time.

"We first became real suspicious of mom and dad after their initial polygraph tests, taken several weeks after DeOrr went missing. Then this past weekend, when the FBI handed over their reports and interviews, that's when we made the decision to inform the public," Sheriff Bowerman told Dateline. http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/par...ed-suspects-summer-2015-disappearance-n503966

IMO He pretty clearly states that he was suspicious of the parents for a long time and once he received the FBI report his suspicions were confirmed. Do you have a link to show otherwise?

 

[giagreen]

It seems to me that you might be missing the fact that the case has evolved over time. New EVIDENCE has been collected and the sheriff's opinion of things has changed. He is no longer dwelling on Deorr being stuck in the creek. However, the creek and the reservoir were two of the most logical places to look in the beginning. He never said that his decision to name them as suspects is entirely based on the FBI's report. In fact, he said this in January:

"Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told Dateline it's because of DeOrr's parents' inconsistent stories that they are being named suspects at this time.

"We first became real suspicious of mom and dad after their initial polygraph tests, taken several weeks after DeOrr went missing. Then this past weekend, when the FBI handed over their reports and interviews, that's when we made the decision to inform the public," Sheriff Bowerman told Dateline. http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/par...ed-suspects-summer-2015-disappearance-n503966

IMO He pretty clearly states that he was suspicious of the parents for a long time and once he received the FBI report his suspicions were confirmed. Do you have a link to show otherwise?

What is there to even support there is physical evidence? Has he made that clear? The interview where SB HAS "ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE" was his most recent one.

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[pepelepolecat]

I married into a family whos beloved father and grandfather was wonderful, friends to all the grand babies and grand children, was in his 70s, was a pillar to the community. Everyone loved him. At 75 was considered to be frail and treated with kid gloves... It turned out dear old gramps was a full blown pedo and had committed acts against his own grandchildren. He killed himself after it got out and he admitted it. All I'm saying is, just because someone is old, or in poor health why do we assume that they couldn't be the one to have committed some act upon DeOrr? If you ask me, IR seemed almost protective of the old man. That could be seen in many ways. BTW, I am not saying anything like this happened, only that he is a POI also and no one is really exploring him here on WS.

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bbm: That's because he's a POI rather than a suspect.

I do agree that people seem to be protecting him -- not just IR but also the family. I'm just not sure *why. It could be simply because he's older and frail. That's probably the simplest theory. There could be other reasons, though. There's really no easy way to tell given the information we have.

 

[courtneyb]

So what's your theory then? Deorr wandered off and there's no crime and the sheriff has no evidence that there even was a crime and absolutely no clue what happened and who was responsible, but he declared the parents to be suspects because...what? He's getting senile and thought they were talking about a different case? He didn't like the way the parents kicked a dog and thought they need a lesson? He's capricious and says things at random? He's a scientist and wanted to experiment what happens if you declare someone a suspect without the faintest reason? Because he's just evil and wanted to ruin grieving parents' lives? Because the experts at the FBI are incompetent fools and he believes them?

THIS.


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[courtneyb]

But that's not physical evidence. He even says he sent stuff off to the behavioral analyst. I'm not disputing that fact.
I'm talking about blood on an ax. Hair on a shovel. Blood found in homes, cars...ect I don't believe they have much.

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One drop of Deorr's blood on an axe or shovel coupled with the parent's multiple, inconsistent explanations might be enough. They wouldn't need MUCH physical evidence.

I think they have a little, ENOUGH, to name them suspects, and ENOUGH to make them believe that they can get MORE.


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[ClaireNC]

But that's not physical evidence. He even says he sent stuff off to the behavioral analyst. I'm not disputing that fact.
I'm talking about blood on an ax. Hair on a shovel. Blood found in homes, cars...ect I don't believe they have much.

Oh you mean biological evidence specifically. They definitely do have physical evidence and have mentioned it. Just because they haven't mentioned anything about biological evidence doesn't mean they don't have any.

FYI. There is some info on types of evidence here: http://nij.gov/topics/forensics/evidence/dna/basics/pages/identifying-to-transporting.aspx

Physical evidence is any tangible object that can connect an offender to a crime scene. Biological evidence, which contains DNA, is a type of physical evidence.

 

[ClaireNC]

So what's your theory then? Deorr wandered off and there's no crime and the sheriff has no evidence that there even was a crime and absolutely no clue what happened and who was responsible, but he declared the parents to be suspects because...what? He's getting senile and thought they were talking about a different case? He didn't like the way the parents kicked a dog and thought they need a lesson? He's capricious and says things at random? He's a scientist and wanted to experiment what happens if you declare someone a suspect without the faintest reason? Because he's just evil and wanted to ruin grieving parents' lives? Because the experts at the FBI are incompetent fools and he believes them?

I nominate this as the best post of the day!

 

[ClaireNC]

I married into a family whos beloved father and grandfather was wonderful, friends to all the grand babies and grand children, was in his 70s, was a pillar to the community. Everyone loved him. At 75 was considered to be frail and treated with kid gloves... It turned out dear old gramps was a full blown pedo and had committed acts against his own grandchildren. He killed himself after it got out and he admitted it. All I'm saying is, just because someone is old, or in poor health why do we assume that they couldn't be the one to have committed some act upon DeOrr? If you ask me, IR seemed almost protective of the old man. That could be seen in many ways. BTW, I am not saying anything like this happened, only that he is a POI also and no one is really exploring him here on WS.

bbm: That's because he's a POI rather than a suspect.

I do agree that people seem to be protecting him -- not just IR but also the family. I'm just not sure *why. It could be simply because he's older and frail. That's probably the simplest theory. There could be other reasons, though. There's really no easy way to tell given the information we have.

FWIW, I also strongly agree with both of these posts. I believe the parents are primarily responsible for whatever happened to little Deorr, however, that does not mean that IR and GGP are completely innocent, either.

I've also noticed that everyone seemed to be protecting GGP from the beginning, including LE.