ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #23

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I don't understand posts that only focus on Jessica. Why is Vernal getting a free pass?

I'm definitely not giving him a free pass! The talk is centering around JM right now due to Klein's recent comment about her knowing where the baby's body is.

 

[TxJan1971]

I think Klein is somewhat full of himself, but I think he really honestly cares about justice for baby Deoor, and I don't think he would do anything to jeopardize prosecution. I think it's everything that he's working for. And I think he more than likely confers with law-enforcement before he makes announcements. Any evidence information that he releases he has to get from somewhere, and more than likely it would have to come from law-enforcement so they must have a reason to share information with him. I also believe that comments he makes regarding evidence about cell phone pings, search areas, cadaver dog hits, more than likely come from forensics reports by experts. I would like to hear from SB but respect all his decisions on timing his public announcements. JMO of course, all of this.

BBM
Although this doesn't confirm he speaks with LE "before" his media appearances/statements, I just read this and thought I'd share:

2-29-16
Chelsey:
I was just wondering…so, you guys, you’ve been working with Lehmi County, right?

Klein:
We have been in direct communication with the FBI. We have been in direct communication with the FBI Forensics team. We’ve been in direct connection with Lemhi County, and we’ve also been in direct connection with….I believe, what’s the county where you all…?

Chelsey:
Bonneville.

Klein:
…Bonneville County. We’ve been in direct connection with Bonneville County, Lehhi County, the FBI, and the FBI Special Team that has been assigned to this. I believe for the first time that I’ve seen in a very long time, we’re all on the same page!

http://m.localnews8.com/news/interv...ip-klein-on-deorr-kunz-investigation/38264866

 

[carbuff]

Thanks for posting SB response.
Ok I'm going to be really unpopular here on this thread. I have read along from day one. I cannot believe that so many sleuthers are taking everything Klein says as Bible. He seems to me to be a giant BS artist. I cannot wait for "Phase 4" Phase 5, 6, 7...
LE is not backing up his statements at this time. I find it extremely frustrating how vague he is. Like one of those people that claim to talk to the dead. Says just enough to hook you, but also not enough to be caught out as smoke.
1. He hasn't found DeOrr. 2. He doesn't know if it was accidental or homicide. 2. He hasn't quoted JM, just accuses her. On many other threads WSers would be ripping him a new blow hole. If he is wrong, think of all of the devastation his accusations will have caused.
I respect everyone's opinion. I have been wrong before, but right now, until LE starts making some of these claims, I will have to give his parents some slack until this baby is found. Also, after all of this "Salem witch hunt" that Klein has fostered, he better hope this baby is found wrapped in something or buried. If it does turn out that he wandered off...
Ok, let the hating begin. I'm a big girl, got my big girl panties on too. Just let me say I do respect you all and have often agreed with you all in the past. [emoji5]

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I'm totally with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I'm definitely not giving him a free pass! The talk is centering around JM right now due to Klein's recent comment about her knowing where the baby's body is.

I'm referring more to posts that say things like "Jessica is scum!" or "Tell the truth Jessica!" If Jessica knows where Deorr is, so does Vernal.

 

[Onebest]

Thanks for posting SB response.
Ok I'm going to be really unpopular here on this thread. I have read along from day one. I cannot believe that so many sleuthers are taking everything Klein says as Bible. He seems to me to be a giant BS artist. I cannot wait for "Phase 4" Phase 5, 6, 7...
LE is not backing up his statements at this time. I find it extremely frustrating how vague he is. Like one of those people that claim to talk to the dead. Says just enough to hook you, but also not enough to be caught out as smoke.
1. He hasn't found DeOrr. 2. He doesn't know if it was accidental or homicide. 2. He hasn't quoted JM, just accuses her. On many other threads WSers would be ripping him a new blow hole. If he is wrong, think of all of the devastation his accusations will have caused.
I respect everyone's opinion. I have been wrong before, but right now, until LE starts making some of these claims, I will have to give his parents some slack until this baby is found. Also, after all of this "Salem witch hunt" that Klein has fostered, he better hope this baby is found wrapped in something or buried. If it does turn out that he wandered off...
Ok, let the hating begin. I'm a big girl, got my big girl panties on too. Just let me say I do respect you all and have often agreed with you all in the past. [emoji5]

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

With all this on the table it sure is amazing that the family hired him right? I can't get totally past that one.... I sure don't like witchhunts either, and I think the social media comments can be totally disgusting.

But, logically thinking, JM and VDK and their family appear to have a vendetta against anybody or anyone of the professionals that disagree with their claim that they had absolutely nothing to do with baby Deoor's disappearance. I ask myself how can two private investigators, LE two counties Leadore and Bonneville, and the FBI all be wrong in their analysis of this situation. I just don't think that's possible.

I think Klein knows way more than what he said, and it's just not being released at this time. I think his goal is to compell the parents to talk by letting them know that there IS evidence against them, and it would be best for them to come forward. I think LE can see that's what he's trying to do and is hopeful perhaps even supportive. Will that work? I don't know. It's up to them really JMO

 

[kammiemc]

I'm totally with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Klein (I actually don't think he's making stuff up, I just think he is way less cautious and more candid than LE), it doesn't change that SB still has said the parents are liars and absolutely know what happened and where there son is. Or that after a 7+ month investigation they are the suspects in DeOrr's disappearance.

I think SB has to know more than Klein, and he has not changed his position that the parents disappeared their son. We can only guess at the info and evidence to support that determination.

Personally, I appreciate anyone who is willing to spend their time, effort and expertise to get to truth and find DeOrr. I'm saving my criticism, judgment and distrust for the parents who have covered up their son's disappearance and continue to lie to everyone about it. That's just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Beezneez]

Yeah I keep coming back to drugs even though I think Klein said drugs weren't involved. I know generally pot/thc is considered pretty safe in normal doses but what if the kid got hold of some pot brownies? I know those can be super strong so possible a little kid eating a couple would be enough to be fatal? I have heard of full grown adults snapping their twig because of consuming too many "edibles" so who knows what it would do to a little guy like Deorr. My other pet theory is something to do with meth.

I have to think if it was legal prescription meds like GGP's it would be just a tragic accident and there would be no need for all this drama.

You can OD on a lot of things, but marijuana is not one of them. You need to consume about 1/3 your total body weight- which for a 15-25 lb toddler would be over 5 lbs. Even if it were a concentrated amount, lets say 50% stronger, 2.5-3 lbs of anything is a lot to consume. He would have passed out but it would be quite obvious that he was still breathing, warm, etc. He would have eventually woken up & been pretty groggy, but fine.
When most people overdo it they get really frightened, which for a two year old kid would have meant crying, clinging to mom/dad, and after maybe 15 minutes of that he would have just fallen asleep.
http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/mj_overdose.htm
Despite anyone else assertions, I am still not able to rule out some other type of drug involvement for myself. Those are thoughts I will keep to myself, but I cannot come up with anything else that could account for the erratic behavior and paranoia. It is also possible that the "wall" JM is hitting in the story could be less that she doesn't want to tell and more that she doesn't actually remember what happened, but does remember the aftermath and cover up.

 

[Beezneez]

And for those of you not familiar- I have a colleague who operates a dispensary in CO, where it is legal. I can go into the explanation of extracting THC from the plant to use in baked goods and foods, but that information is also readily available on the web. Suffice to say to imagine DK consuming the quantity of baked brownies/cookies to reach that 2-5 lb window it would have to have a mild concentration of THC in the recipe. Cannabis butters taste like a skunk smells. There are alcohol distilled sprays that don't have that strong flavor, but that is less common in Idaho because it is expensive. Compared to the availability of cheap smokeable weed I don't see a lot of people going to that extent. JMO- based on my own work-related experiences and talking to the EMT/LE I work with occasionally.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I'm referring more to posts that say things like "Jessica is scum!" or "Tell the truth Jessica!" If Jessica knows where Deorr is, so does Vernal.

On here? I haven't seen those types of comments on here. I've seen them on SM.

 

[haven71]

After listening to it again I agree with your interpretation.

What I found interesting is where he throws in "for everybody"
Its almost like he was very aware of the public audience he was talking to and he wanted to be sure people hear what he was telling
(true or not)

That reminds me, I notice in the first interview, every time I watch it, that Deorr says something like "and a lot of people agree with me, A LOT, that my son is no longer up their on that mountain." Adding that to make it sound like there was no point searching up there anymore IMO.

 

[kammiemc]

That reminds me, I notice in the first interview, every time I watch it, that Deorr says something like "and a lot of people agree with me, A LOT, that my son is no longer up their on that mountain." Adding that to make it sound like there was no point searching up there anymore IMO.

Yeah, LE didn't think he wandered away either. The difference is LE also didn't think he was abducted. But nice try, DK, for trying to put the whole thing to bed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Onebest]

That reminds me, I notice in the first interview, every time I watch it, that Deorr says something like "and a lot of people agree with me, A LOT, that my son is no longer up their on that mountain." Adding that to make it sound like there was no point searching up there anymore IMO.

And I always wonder why they would call in LE and SAR where they might have buried him....Not sure they would. If they were hiding him it wouldn't make sense to go back to the campsite over and over knowing full well he might be found. JMO

 

[haven71]

I don't understand posts that only focus on Jessica. Why is Vernal getting a free pass?

I wondered about this also. I noticed it as soon as Klein released that Jessica confessed to knowing where Deorr's body is. IMO this in no way makes VDK any less culpable than he ever was. She might be the "weak" one who broke down first, but that doesn't mean she was solely responsible...for all we know VDK carried out the crime and she's just been covering for him all along.

 

[courtneyb]

Thanks for posting SB response.
Ok I'm going to be really unpopular here on this thread. I have read along from day one. I cannot believe that so many sleuthers are taking everything Klein says as Bible. He seems to me to be a giant BS artist. I cannot wait for "Phase 4" Phase 5, 6, 7...
LE is not backing up his statements at this time. I find it extremely frustrating how vague he is. Like one of those people that claim to talk to the dead. Says just enough to hook you, but also not enough to be caught out as smoke.
1. He hasn't found DeOrr. 2. He doesn't know if it was accidental or homicide. 2. He hasn't quoted JM, just accuses her. On many other threads WSers would be ripping him a new blow hole. If he is wrong, think of all of the devastation his accusations will have caused.
I respect everyone's opinion. I have been wrong before, but right now, until LE starts making some of these claims, I will have to give his parents some slack until this baby is found. Also, after all of this "Salem witch hunt" that Klein has fostered, he better hope this baby is found wrapped in something or buried. If it does turn out that he wandered off...
Ok, let the hating begin. I'm a big girl, got my big girl panties on too. Just let me say I do respect you all and have often agreed with you all in the past. [emoji5]

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I appreciate your desire to not "pile on" the parents or take part in a witch hunt in case they are innocent, in the absence of a statement from LE backing up what Klein says. It's the right thing to do, until you can't in good conscience do it any more. My point of no return is just different from yours. SB has said enough for me, naming them suspects and saying that they know where his body is, saying they have told multiple, inconsistent accounts of what happened, etc. to make me personally comfortable believing that if they know where his body is, then they know what happened to change DeOrr from a little boy into a body to be found. SB stating that they are not telling the truth about what event it was that led to them knowing where his body is makes me comfortable making the tiny leap that there has to be some responsibility for what happened to DeOrr that is the reason they aren't telling the truth.

Also, what LE ISN'T saying also factors in for me. What they aren't saying is:

"We are NOT working in conjunction with KIC."

"Klein does NOT speak for LE or FBI."

SB actually did respond to questions raised by Klein's statement. But he didn't say or imply that anything that Klein said was false or untrue.

The FBI is involved also. I think that if SB or especially the FBI wanted Klein to shut up, they'd have shut him up long ago.

I think they are letting Klein say the things they cannot, hoping to get a certain result.

I do think, however, that Klein may be taking an inch and a half in what he says when LE has given him an inch. But he hasn't gone too far, not so far that LE is going to slap his hands and say, "We don't know what this crackpot is talking about!"



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Butler]

Thanks for posting SB response.
Ok I'm going to be really unpopular here on this thread. I have read along from day one. I cannot believe that so many sleuthers are taking everything Klein says as Bible. He seems to me to be a giant BS artist. I cannot wait for "Phase 4" Phase 5, 6, 7...
LE is not backing up his statements at this time. I find it extremely frustrating how vague he is. Like one of those people that claim to talk to the dead. Says just enough to hook you, but also not enough to be caught out as smoke.
1. He hasn't found DeOrr. 2. He doesn't know if it was accidental or homicide. 2. He hasn't quoted JM, just accuses her. On many other threads WSers would be ripping him a new blow hole. If he is wrong, think of all of the devastation his accusations will have caused.
I respect everyone's opinion. I have been wrong before, but right now, until LE starts making some of these claims, I will have to give his parents some slack until this baby is found. Also, after all of this "Salem witch hunt" that Klein has fostered, he better hope this baby is found wrapped in something or buried. If it does turn out that he wandered off...
Ok, let the hating begin. I'm a big girl, got my big girl panties on too. Just let me say I do respect you all and have often agreed with you all in the past. [emoji5]

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Thank you so much for this post. I agree 100% with you.

There are only four people who "know" what happened at Timber Creek and Klein isn't one of them. He can speculate, assume, guess, but that is all. I would be extremely surprised if LE, both Lemhi & Bonneville County, and the FBI were giving all this information to Klein. That just isn't how LE works. I worked in Bonneville County with LE and it was difficult to get information even being an insider let alone a PI from Texas.

Until and unless SB confirms Klein's story I'm going to reserve judgement. If JM & VDK harmed DeOrr they should be and will be held accountable by the proper authorities. Reading some of the comments about them and their family here and on SM turns my stomach. I get wanting to sleuth and find answers but trashing people for something without ANY proof is shameful.

Because VDK is an uneducated country boy who is inarticulate, somehow he must be guilty? Because he uses phrases and words not commonly used outside of Eastern Idaho, like hauled, he is a murderous, drug making/using, wife beating, child *advertiser censored* freak?

Because JM shares custody of two of her children with their father, who they happen to live with, she is a horrid beast of a mother? Because she was terminated from her job, she must be guilty of murder? Because she didn't show the "appropriate" emotions, she must be a drugged out psycho b**** who kills two year olds for fun?

Because VDK & DK hired an attorney does not make them guilty. If I my child was missing and I was being vilified all over SM I would have hired one a lot sooner.

Their child is gone, most likely dead and regardless of the how & why they & their families will have to live with this the rest of their lives. A tiny bit of compassion isn't the worst thing we could give to that grieving family.

If they are arrested, charges, and convicted I will then be convinced they are guilty.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I watched that horrible first interview again. I kept an eye on JM's expressions while DK was yapping away and saw a noticeable change when DK started to talk about the creek being a concern for them. It looked like she was trying not to cry. Maybe it was just meth mouth. I personally don't think he drowned but it might be something interesting for you all to check out if you can stand being subjected to Vernalisms again.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Yeah I keep coming back to drugs even though I think Klein said drugs weren't involved. I know generally pot/thc is considered pretty safe in normal doses but what if the kid got hold of some pot brownies? I know those can be super strong so possible a little kid eating a couple would be enough to be fatal? I have heard of full grown adults snapping their twig because of consuming too many "edibles" so who knows what it would do to a little guy like Deorr. My other pet theory is something to do with meth.

I have to think if it was legal prescription meds like GGP's it would be just a tragic accident and there would be no need for all this drama.

Hmmmm....I dunno. He mentioned the cadaver dogs hitting on cerebral fluid or maybe even blood. I'm leaning away from an accidental drug overdose for that reason.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Thanks for posting SB response.
Ok I'm going to be really unpopular here on this thread. I have read along from day one. I cannot believe that so many sleuthers are taking everything Klein says as Bible. He seems to me to be a giant BS artist. I cannot wait for "Phase 4" Phase 5, 6, 7...
LE is not backing up his statements at this time. I find it extremely frustrating how vague he is. Like one of those people that claim to talk to the dead. Says just enough to hook you, but also not enough to be caught out as smoke.
1. He hasn't found DeOrr. 2. He doesn't know if it was accidental or homicide. 2. He hasn't quoted JM, just accuses her. On many other threads WSers would be ripping him a new blow hole. If he is wrong, think of all of the devastation his accusations will have caused.
I respect everyone's opinion. I have been wrong before, but right now, until LE starts making some of these claims, I will have to give his parents some slack until this baby is found. Also, after all of this "Salem witch hunt" that Klein has fostered, he better hope this baby is found wrapped in something or buried. If it does turn out that he wandered off...
Ok, let the hating begin. I'm a big girl, got my big girl panties on too. Just let me say I do respect you all and have often agreed with you all in the past. [emoji5]

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

This is what I truly love about the WebSleuths forum. Although we may not agree with each other, we can still come together and discuss a case and have very different opinions as to what might have happened, and still LEARN from each other. I know my mind has been opened to other ideas/possibilities simply by reading others' opinion. It leaves me scratching my head and saying, "Hmmm...I had never thought about it like that." So, I salute you for clearly articulating where you stand and why.

:tyou:

 

[Onebest]

I appreciate your desire to not "pile on" the parents or take part in a witch hunt in case they are innocent, in the absence of a statement from LE backing up what Klein says. It's the right thing to do, until you can't in good conscience do it any more. My point of no return is just different from yours. SB has said enough for me, naming them suspects and saying that they know where his body is, saying they have told multiple, inconsistent accounts of what happened, etc. to make me personally comfortable believing that if they know where his body is, then they know what happened to change DeOrr from a little boy into a body to be found. SB stating that they are not telling the truth about what event it was that led to them knowing where his body is makes me comfortable making the tiny leap that there has to be some responsibility for what happened to DeOrr that is the reason they aren't telling the truth.

Also, what LE ISN'T saying also factors in for me. What they aren't saying is:

"We are NOT working in conjunction with KIC."

"Klein does NOT speak for LE or FBI."

SB actually did respond to questions raised by Klein's statement. But he didn't say or imply that anything that Klein said was false or untrue.

The FBI is involved also. I think that if SB or especially the FBI wanted Klein to shut up, they'd have shut him up long ago.

I think they are letting Klein say the things they cannot, hoping to get a certain result.

I do think, however, that Klein may be taking an inch and a half in what he says when LE has given him an inch. But he hasn't gone too far, not so far that LE is going to slap his hands and say, "We don't know what this crackpot is talking about!"



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IMO Bingo! You nailed it.

 

[ModernAudrey]

If JM is afraid of someone, I personally would think it is GGP.

I don't personally believe that she's genuinely afraid of either, but I wouldn't be surprised if she attempted to play the terrified female card to save her own neck--in fact, I'd be amazed if she didn't.