ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[Hoosier952]

This pic is from the summer of 2014. Never could understand why it was the one put on the first missing poster. They told media he was 3 years old (when he had actually just hit 2 1/2 ten days before) and posted a pic of him around 18 months old. More obfuscation.

I thought that was odd too. There would be some pretty big changes in a year regarding what a child looks like. I just don't understand what the reasoning would be.

If they thought or wanted everyone to think he was kidnapped, you'd give the most recent picture. You'd want your child found. If you purposely hid your deceased child, why would it matter if you posted a recent photo?

Maybe several phones were given a factory reset that day and no one had pictures to give LE to distribute.

 

[giagreen]

I feel like I must be tired for asking this, but could a truck be considered equipment? On ranches I know vehicles (tractors, trucks, etc.) are considered such. I have wondered if Klein was being purposefully ambiguous at first, but decided to be more specific once the "truck evidence" came out.

ETA: Just saw apparitions post. I agree. Obviously.


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My thoughts on the truck is that it was reportedly searched by the FBI. If that's true which I beleive it is then there is no way that DK would still be in possession of that truck if it had anything to do with DeOrr missing. If there was any blood or anything on that truck I feel like they would of took it for evidence but DK still has his truck so we know that's not the equipment they've sent in for testing. Imo

But seriously I don't know if I'd consider a truck to be equipment....it's a vehicle. Lol But I totally get how a truck can also be considered equipment for insurence reasons on a farm or something.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

 

[Ahammons]

Way back, when the idea of an ax first came out, I researched to see if what I understood about cutting wood was correct. In Idaho, you have to get a permit from the Forest Service to cut wood. There are certain areas designated to do so. That doesn't mean you can't chop up a small downed tree snag or something. But if it's a downed tree, I'm pretty sure you need a permit. At least, you're supposed to have one.

As an idaho resident, this isnt too enforced in smaller towns, where I live now they have people that sit at the end of popular roads... But theres much too many areas to be covered for it to be enforced. Plus its only like $5 or $6 bucks a cord. MANY MANY people go without; as well as without being caught especially in small towns. But before I moved to a bigger town I'd never even heard of people needing a "wood permit."

 

[Susjay]

I believe I heard Klein say there were 2 trips to the store on the Friday my recollection only. I'm questioning the need for the trip or trips to town. There has been conjecture that something was buried somewhere on the mountain - hence the intentions from SB and Klein to search when thaw allows. Is this to search for a body or other items or material? I'm also wondering if trips to town could have allowed something to be deposited in refuse collection bins or dumpsters. And further, where does this refuse end up. Town dump - remains have been found in such places I think. I also knew pretty much nothing about cadaver dogs but this recent article popped up
http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...-and-handlers-behind-the-nsw-police-dog-squad
Obviously, the camping trip was ended by Deorr's disappearance, but otherwise, how long did the campers intend to stay at the campsite? Could be relevant - not sure?

 

[Susjay]

I believe I heard Klein say there were 2 trips to the store on the Friday my recollection only. I'm questioning the need for the trip or trips to town. There has been conjecture that something was buried somewhere on the mountain - hence the intentions from SB and Klein to search when thaw allows. Is this to search for a body or other items or material? I'm also wondering if trips to town could have allowed something to be deposited in refuse collection bins or dumpsters. And further, where does this refuse end up. Town dump - remains have been found in such places I think. I also knew pretty much nothing about cadaver dogs but this recent article popped up
http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...-and-handlers-behind-the-nsw-police-dog-squad
Obviously, the camping trip was ended by Deorr's disappearance, but otherwise, how long did the campers intend to stay at the campsite? Could be relevant - not sure?

 

[persimmon]

I believe I heard Klein say there were 2 trips to the store on the Friday my recollection only. I'm questioning the need for the trip or trips to town. There has been conjecture that something was buried somewhere on the mountain - hence the intentions from SB and Klein to search when thaw allows. Is this to search for a body or other items or material? I'm also wondering if trips to town could have allowed something to be deposited in refuse collection bins or dumpsters. And further, where does this refuse end up. Town dump - remains have been found in such places I think. I also knew pretty much nothing about cadaver dogs but this recent article popped up
http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...-and-handlers-behind-the-nsw-police-dog-squad
Obviously, the camping trip was ended by Deorr's disappearance, but otherwise, how long did the campers intend to stay at the campsite? Could be relevant - not sure?

One trip to the store on Friday.

 

[Tr.]

I believe I heard Klein say there were 2 trips to the store on the Friday my recollection only. I'm questioning the need for the trip or trips to town.

Klein mentions that there were two separate purchases at Leadore. As I recall he does not specifically say that they were on the same day. But I suspect that VDK and JM may have visited Leadore twice on Friday.
See post #36 in the link below:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-24/page3

Thanks for the news link.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Klein mentions that there were two separate purchases at Leadore. As I recall he does not specifically say that they were on the same day. But I suspect that VDK and JM may have visited Leadore twice on Friday.
See post #36 in the link below:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-24/page3

Thanks for the news link.

Maybe I'm not fully awake yet. I don't see the store visits quote at that link.

 

[Hatfield]

Way back, when the idea of an ax first came out, I researched to see if what I understood about cutting wood was correct. In Idaho, you have to get a permit from the Forest Service to cut wood. There are certain areas designated to do so. That doesn't mean you can't chop up a small downed tree snag or something. But if it's a downed tree, I'm pretty sure you need a permit. At least, you're supposed to have one.

Your post reminded me of a place that someone hid some bodies once and it was so unique that I don't think the bodies would have ever been found if the person had not confessed and directed searchers to the bodies.

He hid the bodies in a hollowed out dead tree. It was just incredible and I think it was the first case of its kind. Matthew Hoffman, an unemployed tree-trimmer led police to the bodies. Link below. This particular tree was a hollowed out tree that had died and the hollowed out area was only accessible by climbing up the tree some and stuffing the bodies in the tree trunk from the top down.

I've been in quite a few woods and trees that could be used for that are not very common but they do exist. I think certain types of trees it is more common than others like Beech trees. It usually happens when a tree breaks in half due to lightning or just dies and breaks in half leaving enough of the base. Then over time animals and decay begin to dig out the inside of the trunk.

If VDK had spotted a tree such as this then I think he could have dumped the little boy inside a hollow tree trunk.
Since the child was small there are probably quite a few trees that could be found like this since the diameter would not have to be that large.

It is such a hideous and unique spot that nobody would ever think to even look there and dogs would have a very difficult time even smelling decomposition inside the trunk because the odor goes straight up the top and out the hole on top. Searchers would not typically think to even look inside a hollowed out tree if the top is only accessible by a little climbing.
I've mentioned before in other cases that people have a tendency to not look up when searching. Its just something that we don't do. Its something someone told me about and it is just amazing that he was right because whenever you go hiking in the woods you just do not look up often at all. Sure you will occasionally take a small look upwards but more often than not your eyes stay focused in front of you or on the ground. It is something you have to force yourself to be aware of and also look upwards. I don't think searchers would know to do that unless they are trained well.

In the case in link below, searchers had to saw down the tree at the base to recover the bodies. This particular case it was a very large tree because the murderer put down multiple people and even their family dog. For a little boy the tree would not have to be that large diameter and I am betting finding a suitable tree would not be too difficult since boy was small. Its just something that I think searchers need to consider when looking for the boy.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40275448/...town-grieves-hollow-tree-held-bodies-removed/

 

[Eileen730]

JMO

There were 4 ppl with this little one on this camping trip!
Their stories should all match up with one another and they would match up if the truth was being told.
I do believe some or all know exactly what happened to this child.
The truth never really changes.
Lies do.

LE needs to catch them in their lies because none of them are going to talk.
Sad!

THEY KNOW!

 

[Eileen730]

Your post reminded me of a place that someone hid some bodies once and it was so unique that I don't think the bodies would have ever been found if the person had not confessed and directed searchers to the bodies.

He hid the bodies in a hollowed out dead tree. It was just incredible and I think it was the first case of its kind. Matthew Hoffman, an unemployed tree-trimmer led police to the bodies. Link below. This particular tree was a hollowed out tree that had died and the hollowed out area was only accessible by climbing up the tree some and stuffing the bodies in the tree trunk from the top down.

I've been in quite a few woods and trees that could be used for that are not very common but they do exist. I think certain types of trees it is more common than others like Beech trees. It usually happens when a tree breaks in half due to lightning or just dies and breaks in half leaving enough of the base. Then over time animals and decay begin to dig out the inside of the trunk.

If VDK had spotted a tree such as this then I think he could have dumped the little boy inside a hollow tree trunk.
Since the child was small there are probably quite a few trees that could be found like this since the diameter would not have to be that large.

It is such a hideous and unique spot that nobody would ever think to even look there and dogs would have a very difficult time even smelling decomposition inside the trunk because the odor goes straight up the top and out the hole on top. Searchers would not typically think to even look inside a hollowed out tree if the top is only accessible by a little climbing.
I've mentioned before in other cases that people have a tendency to not look up when searching. Its just something that we don't do. Its something someone told me about and it is just amazing that he was right because whenever you go hiking in the woods you just do not look up often at all. Sure you will occasionally take a small look upwards but more often than not your eyes stay focused in front of you or on the ground. It is something you have to force yourself to be aware of and also look upwards. I don't think searchers would know to do that unless they are trained well.

In the case in link below, searchers had to saw down the tree at the base to recover the bodies. This particular case it was a very large tree because the murderer put down multiple people and even their family dog. For a little boy the tree would not have to be that large diameter and I am betting finding a suitable tree would not be too difficult since boy was small. Its just something that I think searchers need to consider when looking for the boy.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40275448/...town-grieves-hollow-tree-held-bodies-removed/

I remember that case!

 

[Hatfield]

I decided to make a small list of some possible theories of what could have happened. I tried to list some of the main theories that have been mentioned.

1-Boy died earlier that week and trip was planned to make it look like he walked away and got lost. Boy was hidden before they even left and hidden someplace else which is not anywhere near the campground.
When they seemed to suggest someone kidnapped him could be a sign that they knew boy was not in the area and they felt somewhat sorry for all the people having to search needlessly and knew he was not anywhere near campground. One of the interviews they seemed to be pushing the idea that someone took him. Could have been a sign they knew he was not anywhere near campground.

2-Same as above but boy is hidden somewhere near or within 10-20 miles of campground area.

3-Boy was given to someone else to take care of because they did not want the responsibility anymore. Boy was handed off to some other adult(s). The adult(s) is most likely not living too close to their home in Idaho. Maybe someone they met who lives in Canada or some other state in US.

4-Camping trip was real and some sort of accidental death happened where parents feel they would get in trouble if truth known about how he died so boy is hidden somewhere near campground or 10-20 miles around area.

5-Same as above but it was no accident.

There are probably quite a few other theories that could be added and just wanted to list some down to see if anything we know about leans us to one particular theory over another.

 

[ClaireNC]

JMO

There were 4 ppl with this little one on this camping trip!
Their stories should all match up with one another and they would match up if the truth was being told.
I do believe some or all know exactly what happened to this child.
The truth never really changes.
Lies do.

LE needs to catch them in their lies because none of them are going to talk.
Sad!

THEY KNOW!

LE has caught them in their lies. Now they need to just find the body.

 

[ClaireNC]

I decided to make a small list of some possible theories of what could have happened. I tried to list some of the main theories that have been mentioned.

(snipped for focus)

4-Camping trip was real and some sort of accidental death happened where parents feel they would get in trouble if truth known about how he died so boy is hidden somewhere near campground or 10-20 miles around area.

5-Same as above but it was no accident.

There are probably quite a few other theories that could be added and just wanted to list some down to see if anything we know about leans us to one particular theory over another.

After 8 months of sitting on the fence, I now think number 4 is the most likely. I think the adults were careless, possibly because they had been drinking, when they got to the campground after dark on Thursday evening. In my mind it was probably 9:00 to 10:00 pm. Some kind of accident happened, like somebody backed over little DeOrr or he got hit in the head with a shovel or fire log, while they were getting things set up for the night. Most likely a head injury. (Could also be that somebody lost their temper and either shook him or hit him over the head with something.) They knew he was hurt, but didn't think it was that bad and put him to sleep for the night. When they woke up in the morning, they found him unresponsive. That's when the story breaks down and the lies begin, from that point on is all a cover-up. Why they would lie and cover up an accident is the part I can't understand.

 

[skinnycat]

LE has caught them in their lies. Now they need to just find the body.

This is what makes me think that when the PI went to SB with his findings after the PI had already informed the extended family, SB already knew what the PI was going to find, so SB let the PI know what things he may talk about to the media without jeopardizing the case.

All the interviews haven't got any of them to tell the truth, having officials make comments about them not telling the truth might just light the fire that gets to the truth of where DeOrr is. SB knew he needed to rattle their chains,

Just think how nervous they must be as the snow and frost leave that mountain they know that there will be specialized teams coming in, they know that they have a general location, wonder if they were nervous when they heard the police were up on the mountain on snowmobiles I'm sure they felt that the snow would prolong any recovery of DeOrr.

 

[OSpyder]

Your post reminded me of a place that someone hid some bodies once and it was so unique that I don't think the bodies would have ever been found if the person had not confessed and directed searchers to the bodies.

He hid the bodies in a hollowed out dead tree. It was just incredible and I think it was the first case of its kind. Matthew Hoffman, an unemployed tree-trimmer led police to the bodies. Link below. This particular tree was a hollowed out tree that had died and the hollowed out area was only accessible by climbing up the tree some and stuffing the bodies in the tree trunk from the top down.

I've been in quite a few woods and trees that could be used for that are not very common but they do exist. I think certain types of trees it is more common than others like Beech trees. It usually happens when a tree breaks in half due to lightning or just dies and breaks in half leaving enough of the base. Then over time animals and decay begin to dig out the inside of the trunk.

If VDK had spotted a tree such as this then I think he could have dumped the little boy inside a hollow tree trunk.
Since the child was small there are probably quite a few trees that could be found like this since the diameter would not have to be that large.

It is such a hideous and unique spot that nobody would ever think to even look there and dogs would have a very difficult time even smelling decomposition inside the trunk because the odor goes straight up the top and out the hole on top. Searchers would not typically think to even look inside a hollowed out tree if the top is only accessible by a little climbing.
I've mentioned before in other cases that people have a tendency to not look up when searching. Its just something that we don't do. Its something someone told me about and it is just amazing that he was right because whenever you go hiking in the woods you just do not look up often at all. Sure you will occasionally take a small look upwards but more often than not your eyes stay focused in front of you or on the ground. It is something you have to force yourself to be aware of and also look upwards. I don't think searchers would know to do that unless they are trained well.

In the case in link below, searchers had to saw down the tree at the base to recover the bodies. This particular case it was a very large tree because the murderer put down multiple people and even their family dog. For a little boy the tree would not have to be that large diameter and I am betting finding a suitable tree would not be too difficult since boy was small. Its just something that I think searchers need to consider when looking for the boy.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40275448/...town-grieves-hollow-tree-held-bodies-removed/

:goodpost:

OT- The Girl in the Leaves by Robert Scott is a book written about this case. It is an easy but interesting read.

 

[ninij9]

I decided to make a small list of some possible theories of what could have happened. I tried to list some of the main theories that have been mentioned.

1-Boy died earlier that week and trip was planned to make it look like he walked away and got lost. Boy was hidden before they even left and hidden someplace else which is not anywhere near the campground.
When they seemed to suggest someone kidnapped him could be a sign that they knew boy was not in the area and they felt somewhat sorry for all the people having to search needlessly and knew he was not anywhere near campground. One of the interviews they seemed to be pushing the idea that someone took him. Could have been a sign they knew he was not anywhere near campground.

2-Same as above but boy is hidden somewhere near or within 10-20 miles of campground area.

3-Boy was given to someone else to take care of because they did not want the responsibility anymore. Boy was handed off to some other adult(s). The adult(s) is most likely not living too close to their home in Idaho. Maybe someone they met who lives in Canada or some other state in US.

4-Camping trip was real and some sort of accidental death happened where parents feel they would get in trouble if truth known about how he died so boy is hidden somewhere near campground or 10-20 miles around area.

5-Same as above but it was no accident.

There are probably quite a few other theories that could be added and just wanted to list some down to see if anything we know about leans us to one particular theory over another.

Great post Hatfield. I'm going with 4. But I get feeling that only dad knew of it. He seems manipulative and was very "talky" during his initial interview. Maybe mom failed tests cause she know VDK wasn't acting normal and she wondered about him as well. I am in the teeny minority here of thinking this is more tragic than nefarious. I hope he's found very soon so we can know for sure. All Jmo, and good morning.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Hatfield]

This is what makes me think that when the PI went to SB with his findings after the PI had already informed the extended family, SB already knew what the PI was going to find, so SB let the PI know what things he may talk about to the media without jeopardizing the case.

All the interviews haven't got any of them to tell the truth, having officials make comments about them not telling the truth might just light the fire that gets to the truth of where DeOrr is. SB knew he needed to rattle their chains,

Just think how nervous they must be as the snow and frost leave that mountain they know that there will be specialized teams coming in, they know that they have a general location, wonder if they were nervous when they heard the police were up on the mountain on snowmobiles I'm sure they felt that the snow would prolong any recovery of DeOrr.

Someone brought up a good point the other day about what could have changed to let LE know where to look in the spring. My understanding is when LE gets a search warrant to pull cell phone records that it sometimes takes a lot of time to get all the detailed records that would include the Cell Tower pings or GPS locations of the cell phone.

And once they get the detailed records then I think it takes a lot of time for LE to sit down and do the mapping they would need to do to try to make sense of the records. They have to plot out all the pings, the cell phone tower locations, the times and dates of the pings, etc.

I think all of that takes quite a bit of time and so I could really see where LE may not have gathered all this research until after the cold had set in.

I have high hopes that LE has spotted something on the cell tower/GPS charts that show they stopped at a certain place for 30 minutes or more which is a rural place.

OT
On my phone, a couple years ago after I had learned how the cell tower/GPS signal works on the phone and how that information can be used by others ("the man" - LOL), my paranoia made me turn off the setting to where my location was not transmitted back to the phone company. I then quickly realized that if I ever got in a car wreck or was lost somewhere then nobody would ever find me so I turned back on the feature.

 

[Cardinal47]

Your post reminded me of a place that someone hid some bodies once and it was so unique that I don't think the bodies would have ever been found if the person had not confessed and directed searchers to the bodies.

He hid the bodies in a hollowed out dead tree. It was just incredible and I think it was the first case of its kind. Matthew Hoffman, an unemployed tree-trimmer led police to the bodies. Link below. This particular tree was a hollowed out tree that had died and the hollowed out area was only accessible by climbing up the tree some and stuffing the bodies in the tree trunk from the top down.

I've been in quite a few woods and trees that could be used for that are not very common but they do exist. I think certain types of trees it is more common than others like Beech trees. It usually happens when a tree breaks in half due to lightning or just dies and breaks in half leaving enough of the base. Then over time animals and decay begin to dig out the inside of the trunk.

If VDK had spotted a tree such as this then I think he could have dumped the little boy inside a hollow tree trunk.
Since the child was small there are probably quite a few trees that could be found like this since the diameter would not have to be that large.

It is such a hideous and unique spot that nobody would ever think to even look there and dogs would have a very difficult time even smelling decomposition inside the trunk because the odor goes straight up the top and out the hole on top. Searchers would not typically think to even look inside a hollowed out tree if the top is only accessible by a little climbing.
I've mentioned before in other cases that people have a tendency to not look up when searching. Its just something that we don't do. Its something someone told me about and it is just amazing that he was right because whenever you go hiking in the woods you just do not look up often at all. Sure you will occasionally take a small look upwards but more often than not your eyes stay focused in front of you or on the ground. It is something you have to force yourself to be aware of and also look upwards. I don't think searchers would know to do that unless they are trained well.

In the case in link below, searchers had to saw down the tree at the base to recover the bodies. This particular case it was a very large tree because the murderer put down multiple people and even their family dog. For a little boy the tree would not have to be that large diameter and I am betting finding a suitable tree would not be too difficult since boy was small. Its just something that I think searchers need to consider when looking for the boy.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40275448/...town-grieves-hollow-tree-held-bodies-removed/

You remind me of the Marine out in California Cris Lee who killed his friends wife.

"The accused killer of Erin Corwin, the Marine wife whose decomposing remains were found in a California desert mine shaft last August, maintained his plea of not guilty Wednesday as a judge ruled that the case should proceed toward trial. " http://www.people.com/article/erin-corwin-murder-trial-chris-lee-not-guilty-plea

A miracle she was ever found.

 

[Cardinal47]

I decided to make a small list of some possible theories of what could have happened. I tried to list some of the main theories that have been mentioned.

1-Boy died earlier that week and trip was planned to make it look like he walked away and got lost. Boy was hidden before they even left and hidden someplace else which is not anywhere near the campground.
When they seemed to suggest someone kidnapped him could be a sign that they knew boy was not in the area and they felt somewhat sorry for all the people having to search needlessly and knew he was not anywhere near campground. One of the interviews they seemed to be pushing the idea that someone took him. Could have been a sign they knew he was not anywhere near campground.

2-Same as above but boy is hidden somewhere near or within 10-20 miles of campground area.

3-Boy was given to someone else to take care of because they did not want the responsibility anymore. Boy was handed off to some other adult(s). The adult(s) is most likely not living too close to their home in Idaho. Maybe someone they met who lives in Canada or some other state in US.

4-Camping trip was real and some sort of accidental death happened where parents feel they would get in trouble if truth known about how he died so boy is hidden somewhere near campground or 10-20 miles around area.

5-Same as above but it was no accident.

There are probably quite a few other theories that could be added and just wanted to list some down to see if anything we know about leans us to one particular theory over another.

I can't help but think about Caylee Anthony and how her remains were found just down the street from her home! It haunts me.

She was also thought to be doped and put in the trunk of the car so her mother could party.

I am also curious about little squeaks of CPS investigating DeOrr and JM that I will set aside as rumor for right now.

What went on in this little boys life. Why did they give an older picture of him and the wrong color eyes on the missing poster.

I hope LE and maybe Klein can sort all of this out. Somebody needs to pay for this little life.