ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[giagreen]

Were there never any dated photos from JM's FB of Deorr on that trip?

When were these taken? One looks like he's strapped in a car seat.

http://m.localnews8.com/image/view/...00/maxw/480/-/15a7bi6/-/Deorr-Kunz-Jr-jpg.jpg

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90134&d=1453572655&thumb=1

I have no idea. But I think DeOrr looks younger in this photo.

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[giagreen]

As the first "official" lie in this case it is important evidence. Interesting how VDK made sure it wasn't he that called first. This is why I think he went a haulin.

If you listen to JM 911 call you can hear him call in. Of course we can only hear the operator though. It sounded pretty short.

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[Susjay]

As far as JM & VDK's emotions go i don't know if this is the way they normally are in RL because non of us know them in RL, but i would also factor in nervousness by being in front of a camera on national t.v. JM seems passive to me and VDK a chatterbox, and i'm not going to judge their emotions because i have no idea about who they are.
There are all kinds of coping mechanisms when a tragic event occurs in a family, whether the parents are lying about what they know happened to Deorr or not. I know LE is convinced they do know what happened, but LE aren't always 100% right either in all cases. All anyone knows right now is the parents are being deceptive and it's up to LE to find out why there is the need for that with the parents of the missing child, and to build a case with whatever evidence they have. All IMO.

Agree emotions often need context to even try to unwrap. In the case of Lindy Chamberlain and the dingo taking the baby in Australia, Lindy's lawyers told her to try to stay composed and in control (I imagine so she would look credible) but this backfired with press and public viewing her as cold hearted. She was convicted, jailed, and many years later exonerated and compensated and given an apology from authorities. It was determined that in fact a dingo very likely did take the baby.

 

[Tr.]

If you listen to JM 911 call you can hear him call in. Of course we can only hear the operator though. It sounded pretty short.

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I heard that but it sounds to me like he's not on the phone but talking to JM as she is calling....then he calls while she's still on the line.
I'll listen again...thanks.

 

[giagreen]

Agree emotions often need context to even try to unwrap. In the case of Lindy Chamberlain and the dingo taking the baby in Australia, Lindy's lawyers told her to try to stay composed and in control (I imagine so she would look credible) but this backfired with press and public viewing her as cold hearted. She was convicted, jailed, and many years later exonerated and compensated and given an apology from authorities. It was determined that in fact a dingo very likely did take the baby.

Speaking of Lindy Chamberlain. I bought the rug rats cartoons for my son not long ago. The other day I noticed in the the third movie they made a few jokes about "a dingo ate my baby" and it really hit me how horible that actually is. A mother lost her baby girl to a dingo and how many years later it's still a running joke across the world [emoji20]

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[kammiemc]

I heard that but it sounds to me like he's not on the phone but talking to JM as she is calling.
I'll listen again...thanks.

I totally thought he called in and you could hear DK's operator speaking to him in the background, prompting JM's operator to ask JM if her husband was calling?

At the same time, it sounded as though someone was with JM and speaking in her background as she waited for her operator to contact LE/SAR/NOT SURE EXACTLY WHO.


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[Karinna]

A trial in DeOrr Kunz, Jr case would be near impossible without a body

BOISE, Idaho (KBOI) -

(modsnip)

So the question is, can someone be charged for murder if a body hasn't been found? The answer is yes, but it doesn't happen often.

(modsnip)

"That usually involves a significant link of DNA of blood to the victim," says Leroy. "Of not just a missing person's but circumstances that show there must have been a death. We just can't find it."

(modsnip)


"It's impossible for any of us to guess what proof's there may be but it's impossible, in my opinion, to bring charges unless you have a body alleging the homicide of a small person in an outdoor area," says Leroy. "there's simply too many open ended questions for any jury to find beyond unreasonable doubt that a conviction could take place."
http://www.localnews8.com/news/A-tr...ld-be-near-impossible-without-a-body/38306072

 

[Catherine1]

I keep getting thoughts of a chain saw. That pile of fresh cut wood at the campground didn't just appear there. Maybe they brought it with them. On the other hand, the forest would be a great place to cut some wood. And it might explain why they brought Vernal's old black truck instead of his new grey one. Loads of wood make a big mess in the bed of a truck and can cause dents and scratches. I read a fb post from a friend to Vernal about delivering a load of wood to him. So I assume he heats with wood.

I know you guys are talking about saws and like wood cutting equipment, but why wouldn't a carseat be considered a piece of equipment?

 

[The Apparition]

I know you guys are talking about saws and like wood cutting equipment, but why wouldn't a carseat be considered a piece of equipment?

I think it could be also. I believe the word equipment was purposely chosen for it's vagueness. Even though people act like Klein is a bull in a china shop I think he knows what he's doing. LE obviously doesn't want the public to know what the dogs alerted on so saying equipment definitely sounds more professional than saying stuff.

 

[giagreen]

I know you guys are talking about saws and like wood cutting equipment, but why wouldn't a carseat be considered a piece of equipment?

Just out of curiosity why are you asking this? I'm sure I missed something.
But I'd consider a car seat equipment for sure. It's safety equipment imo.

Nevermind...I see now where Klein said something about equipment.

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[kammiemc]

Just out of curiosity why are you asking this? I'm sure I missed something.
But I'd consider a car seat equipment for sure. It's safety equipment imo.

Nevermind...I see now where Klein said something about equipment.

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I feel like I must be tired for asking this, but could a truck be considered equipment? On ranches I know vehicles (tractors, trucks, etc.) are considered such. I have wondered if Klein was being purposefully ambiguous at first, but decided to be more specific once the "truck evidence" came out.

ETA: Just saw apparitions post. I agree. Obviously.


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[Lillahazel]

Interesting to factor the woodcutting into the timeline.

Do we know if fires were permitted in that area? I know in WA there were many burn bans due to wildfires at that time.


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[ReadySet]

A trial in DeOrr Kunz, Jr case would be near impossible without a body

BOISE, Idaho (KBOI) -

(modsnip)

So the question is, can someone be charged for murder if a body hasn't been found? The answer is yes, but it doesn't happen often.

(modsnip)

"That usually involves a significant link of DNA of blood to the victim," says Leroy. "Of not just a missing person's but circumstances that show there must have been a death. We just can't find it."

(modsnip)


"It's impossible for any of us to guess what proof's there may be but it's impossible, in my opinion, to bring charges unless you have a body alleging the homicide of a small person in an outdoor area," says Leroy. "there's simply too many open ended questions for any jury to find beyond unreasonable doubt that a conviction could take place."
http://www.localnews8.com/news/A-tr...ld-be-near-impossible-without-a-body/38306072

Like I said when this article was posted before, David Leroy is a criminal defense attorney, and is posting from that perspective. It's what I would expect a defense attorney to say regarding this case. JMO

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I have no idea. But I think DeOrr looks younger in this photo.

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This pic is from the summer of 2014. Never could understand why it was the one put on the first missing poster. They told media he was 3 years old (when he had actually just hit 2 1/2 ten days before) and posted a pic of him around 18 months old. More obfuscation.

 

[Lillahazel]

This pic is from the summer of 2014. Never could understand why it was the one put on the first missing poster. They told media he was 3 years old (when he had actually just hit 2 1/2 ten days before) and posted a pic of him around 18 months old. More obfuscation.

The picture quality always bothered me too. You can't even make out his facial features in that photo.


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[Karinna]

Like I said when this article was posted before, David Leroy is a criminal defense attorney, and is posting from that perspective. It's what I would expect a defense attorney to say regarding this case. JMO

David Leroy has also been a Prosecuting Attorney & Idaho Attorney General among other designations.

 

[ReadySet]

David Leroy has also been a Prosecuting Attorney & Idaho Attorney General among other designations.

Yes, and Lieutenant Governor too--in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
He currently specializes in felony criminal defense cases.
I'm just saying that I think in this interview, he's giving the perspective of a defense attorney. JMO

 

[Blue Skies]

You're right . I'm just hallucinating after a long day!

No, I remember this too. I think it was in one of those last two interviews Klein did.

 

[Susjay]

I think it could be also. I believe the word equipment was purposely chosen for it's vagueness. Even though people act like Klein is a bull in a china shop I think he knows what he's doing. LE obviously doesn't want the public to know what the dogs alerted on so saying equipment definitely sounds more professional than saying stuff.

Really appreciate your posts. Equipment could also be fishing tackle and tools - knives hooks - fishing line. I've also wondered if we know whether a fire was lit at all. Not sure how mild the weather was but it always seems to add to the camping experience to light a fire. A shovel could be used to shovel the pit or move hot coals. A friend of mine has a cool scar on his forehead from walking up behind his Dad while Dad was shovelling in the garden - 2/3yr olds are a perfect height to get hit in the head by a shovel. Also could a child eat firelighters or drink fire accelerant? Just thinking out loud and trying to imagine how a shovel or equipment could be involved.

 

[persimmon]

Really appreciate your posts. Equipment could also be fishing tackle and tools - knives hooks - fishing line. I've also wondered if we know whether a fire was lit at all. Not sure how mild the weather was but it always seems to add to the camping experience to light a fire. A shovel could be used to shovel the pit or move hot coals. A friend of mine has a cool scar on his forehead from walking up behind his Dad while Dad was shovelling in the garden - 2/3yr olds are a perfect height to get hit in the head by a shovel. Also could a child eat firelighters or drink fire accelerant? Just thinking out loud and trying to imagine how a shovel or equipment could be involved.

I'll double check, but taking the liars' word, there was a fire. I believe that was one of the quoted lies.

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NANCY GRACE

Search Continues for Missing Idaho Tot. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 16, 2015 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news in the mystery of a 2-year-old boy who vanishes at a remote Idaho campsite. His

parents are convinced their toddler boy has been kidnapped. The searching for Deorr Kunz continues at this hour. The family is standing by, vowing

to not leave until they find their son.

But who was the last person to see the little boy before he disappears? Tonight, we uncover who else was at that Timber Creek campground the day

Deorr goes missing without a trace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the campsite where Deorr and his family were camping. The creek is just here, a few yards away.

DEORR KUNZ, SR., FATHER: We decided we`re going to go a little exploring.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They went up this way, away from the campsite.

KUNZ: He was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire.