ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[desert-blue]

It seems an odd coincidence that the 911 calls were made almost exactly at the time the rain started.

There have just been so many strange coincidences in this case. Maybe that's another one.

The pending rain might have caused them to take cover in GGPA's camper and that's when the lie had to end because DeOrr wasn't there.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

@TheApparition - thanks for answering, so happy that everything turned out as it should. I wonder whether it would have had the new FBI dude not known the Narnian policeman...

@Hoosier - hilarious! Shows that no matter how innocent the mere presence of LE can make you doubt yourself. Mob activity, pahhahaha!

 

[Lillahazel]

I decided to make a small list of some possible theories of what could have happened. I tried to list some of the main theories that have been mentioned.

1-Boy died earlier that week and trip was planned to make it look like he walked away and got lost. Boy was hidden before they even left and hidden someplace else which is not anywhere near the campground.
When they seemed to suggest someone kidnapped him could be a sign that they knew boy was not in the area and they felt somewhat sorry for all the people having to search needlessly and knew he was not anywhere near campground. One of the interviews they seemed to be pushing the idea that someone took him. Could have been a sign they knew he was not anywhere near campground.

2-Same as above but boy is hidden somewhere near or within 10-20 miles of campground area.

3-Boy was given to someone else to take care of because they did not want the responsibility anymore. Boy was handed off to some other adult(s). The adult(s) is most likely not living too close to their home in Idaho. Maybe someone they met who lives in Canada or some other state in US.

4-Camping trip was real and some sort of accidental death happened where parents feel they would get in trouble if truth known about how he died so boy is hidden somewhere near campground or 10-20 miles around area.

5-Same as above but it was no accident.

There are probably quite a few other theories that could be added and just wanted to list some down to see if anything we know about leans us to one particular theory over another.

I have a hard time believing any theory that is overly complex because I'm not convinced VDK and JM could pull it off. However, I would not be surprised in anyway if they find evidence of an outside suspects involvment or help in covering it up.

I haven't completely ruled out theory #3 yet because LE hasn't stated that they believe he is deceased. Sometimes I think about this theory because I pretend he is surrounded with warm and loving people. For this theory to be plausible there would obviously need to be an outside suspect that is MUCH smarter. Has Klein 100% dismissed he's could be alive? Has he stopped taking any leads on the public spotting him? When we went to Canada I was a little shocked at how easy it was to bring a blond, brown eyed, toddler across the border right after this story broke (keep in mind we went to a border that would be the closest to this location). Our son was sleeping and we had his birth certificate. They peeked at the certificate saw some blond hair peeking out the top of his blanket and let us pass by. I honesty was prepared to be questioned because I think he resembled DJ quite a bit. After we left my husband and I talked about how easy it would be to have a birth certificate for any toddler in hand and bring a different one across the border. To me this theory could explain a few weird things in this case. Lack of emotion, poor photo choice for FB flyer, failing polys that ask if they know what happen to him, etc.

Then I slap myself back to reality and believe theory #4 or #5.

 

[Mickshawn]

I wonder......What are the chances that someone (human) has moved D's body around...? Changed locations?

 

[Gibbs]

I have a hard time believing any theory that is overly complex because I'm not convinced VDK and JM could pull it off. However, I would not be surprised in anyway if they find evidence of an outside suspects involvment or help in covering it up.

I haven't completely ruled out theory #3 yet because LE hasn't stated that they believe he is deceased. Sometimes I think about this theory because I pretend he is surrounded with warm and loving people. For this theory to be plausible there would obviously need to be an outside suspect that is MUCH smarter. Has Klein 100% dismissed he's could be alive? Has he stopped taking any leads on the public spotting him? When we went to Canada I was a little shocked at how easy it was to bring a blond, brown eyed, toddler across the border right after this story broke (keep in mind we went to a border that would be the closest to this location). Our son was sleeping and we had his birth certificate. They peeked at the certificate saw some blond hair peeking out the top of his blanket and let us pass by. I honesty was prepared to be questioned because I think he resembled DJ quite a bit. After we left my husband and I talked about how easy it would be to have a birth certificate for any toddler in hand and bring a different one across the border. To me this theory could explain a few weird things in this case. Lack of emotion, poor photo choice for FB flyer, failing polys that ask if they know what happen to him, etc.

Then I slap myself back to reality and believe theory #4 or #5.

I hope for #3 also. However, I asked on KIC's Facebook site if Klein had any hope Deorr was alive and he/KIC said no.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I wonder......What are the chances that someone (human) has moved D's body around...? Changed locations?

It is certainly a possibility in hindsight. How long and how many officers were at/around the campsite? How long were the family up there searching?

This is an area where phone pings could be invaluable if it did happen.

 

[ClaireNC]

The pending rain might have caused them to take cover in GGPA's camper and that's when the lie had to end because DeOrr wasn't there.

It didn't rain on July 10th...the thunderstorm referenced above was on July 9th.

 

[DatelineFan]

@Lillahazel, I agree with the first part of your post. I think if we ever find out the truth of what happened to Deorr, we will be surprised at how simple it is. Of course, it will be painful, as I believe he's no longer alive, but I don't think it will be a complicated story.

 

[desert-blue]

It didn't rain on July 10th...the thunderstorm referenced above was on July 9th.

I recall that there were t-storms on the 10th as well... I don't have time to link right now, will look later.

 

[ClaireNC]

I have a hard time believing any theory that is overly complex because I'm not convinced VDK and JM could pull it off. However, I would not be surprised in anyway if they find evidence of an outside suspects involvment or help in covering it up.

I haven't completely ruled out theory #3 yet because LE hasn't stated that they believe he is deceased. Sometimes I think about this theory because I pretend he is surrounded with warm and loving people. For this theory to be plausible there would obviously need to be an outside suspect that is MUCH smarter. Has Klein 100% dismissed he's could be alive? Has he stopped taking any leads on the public spotting him? When we went to Canada I was a little shocked at how easy it was to bring a blond, brown eyed, toddler across the border right after this story broke (keep in mind we went to a border that would be the closest to this location). Our son was sleeping and we had his birth certificate. They peeked at the certificate saw some blond hair peeking out the top of his blanket and let us pass by. I honesty was prepared to be questioned because I think he resembled DJ quite a bit. After we left my husband and I talked about how easy it would be to have a birth certificate for any toddler in hand and bring a different one across the border. To me this theory could explain a few weird things in this case. Lack of emotion, poor photo choice for FB flyer, failing polys that ask if they know what happen to him, etc.

Then I slap myself back to reality and believe theory #4 or #5.

Unfortunately, I think it's theory 4 or 5 but I agree with your comment about them not being able to pull off anything too complex. For a long time, I really thought they sold him or handed him off to somebody. If I had heard about your experience with taking a child across the border I would have been even more convinced. Thanks for sharing that insight. I will definitely keep it in mind in future missing children cases.

Even if LE haven't come out and said they think he is deceased, they have acted as if he is for a long time now. Last summer they started discouraging SAR teams from going up there to search. LE or the FBI never did any media push to spread the word that he was missing. There was never a reward offered by the officials. For all we know, they might not have even notified the border patrol that there was a child missing from Idaho not all that far from the border.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I recall that there were t-storms on the 10th as well... I don't have time to link right now, will look later.

I looked on the friendlyforecast site and yes, there was a thunderstorm on the 10th at 15:00, but the weather station it was observed at was at Lemhi County airport ~50 miles away.

Unless someone can find a weather station in Leadore, I don't think we can put much stock in one 50 miles away?

 

[Rayemonde]

I really don't think there's much of a market to adopt toddlers to loving homes illegally. Newborns and young infants, yes, because then you can just pass them off and raise them as your own. Toddlers and older kids are more likely to be seen as "damaged goods", prone to emotional and behavioural problems and attachment disorders (not true, of course, but it's a common misconception and makes older kids much less likely to be adopted). Plus, they may remember their past identity and give the game away, and they may be recognized, especially if they have been reported missing.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

http://www.localnews8.com/news/private-investigator-cadaver-dog-proves-there-was-a-death/38307992
At the 3 minute mark in this interview Klein discusses the purchases made by VDK on Friday. It sounds to me like he's saying that they visited the store twice that day.
This is a key point that I used in coming up with my search site and incomplete time line theory. I wish I had the exact purchase times to confirm or adjust the theory...but that would probably not be something they could release.
I will say this...without all of the great info from PI's and news reporters questions I wouldn't have much of a theory as to where to look for Deorr. LE just doesn't have or won't come off of enough info to work with imo. I'm glad we have info from so many sources.

DK could have gone out into the parking lot and then came back in to purchase some more things. Maybe they forgot to buy JM's stuff during the first transaction. That would be something, eh?!

 

[Blue Skies]

Great post Hatfield. I'm going with 4. But I get feeling that only dad knew of it. He seems manipulative and was very "talky" during his initial interview. Maybe mom failed tests cause she know VDK wasn't acting normal and she wondered about him as well. I am in the teeny minority here of thinking this is more tragic than nefarious. I hope he's found very soon so we can know for sure. All Jmo, and good morning.

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I do think it is tragic. I never once thought they wanted to kill Deorr, although I think there is a small chance it was punishment gone too far. I think it is much more likely an accident that they felt they had to cover for some reason.

I completely disagree with the sex ring/pedophile theory and the theory they intentionally killed him. I just don't see them as that sick or twisted.

I do get frustrated when the bashing starts for the people who are trying to help. I know your post wasn't about this, but I've wanted to clarify this since one of my recent posts (about the parents not watching him) which I felt was a little too harsh after I thought about it. This was a good opportunity to do that.

I just wish they would tell the truth. Then sometimes I think, maybe it just hurts too bad for them to even speak the truth or go to that place in their mind. Maybe?


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[pepelepolecat]

It didn't rain on July 10th...the thunderstorm referenced above was on July 9th.

iirc, it also rained on the 10th.

http://www.friendlyforecast.com/usa...ion=ID&id=84168&date=20150710000000&sort=hour

 

[haven71]

I've been doing some research into parents who killed their child and hid the body, and one thing I've noticed is that they usually hide it close to home - often only about half a mile away from the home where the child died, up to about 10 or 12 miles. I'm hoping that in this case DeOrr will have been hidden fairly close to the campsite.

I'm not sure why parents usually hide the body close to home especially when they know a massive search will soon be underway for the child. Maybe it's just a blind panic thing, and they want to bury the evidence as quickly as possible, so they choose the first place that looks promising. Plus in this case maybe they didn't want to be away from camp for too long, as that would ruin their story about just popping to the store if ggp and IR noticed they had been gone for hours.

Just a guess but perhaps part of the reason has to do with not wanting their vehicle to "stick out" and be remembered in another more remote area. Much easier for the neighbors to say, "Bob's truck was parked there the whole day." Whereas if they were taking the body away from the immediate area all kinds of sightings could be possible. JMO

 

[12madelyn]

After 8 months of sitting on the fence, I now think number 4 is the most likely. I think the adults were careless, possibly because they had been drinking, when they got to the campground after dark on Thursday evening. In my mind it was probably 9:00 to 10:00 pm. Some kind of accident happened, like somebody backed over little DeOrr or he got hit in the head with a shovel or fire log, while they were getting things set up for the night. Most likely a head injury. (Could also be that somebody lost their temper and either shook him or hit him over the head with something.) They knew he was hurt, but didn't think it was that bad and put him to sleep for the night. When they woke up in the morning, they found him unresponsive. That's when the story breaks down and the lies begin, from that point on is all a cover-up. Why they would lie and cover up an accident is the part I can't understand.

Me, too, believing he was at the cg. But I'm not sure why people don't take into account what Reinwand told NE during the interview, which was that the child was left in his and ggf's care. Also that he disappeared while in their care. I'm curious to know what people think about that. Do you think he's not being truthful? <modsnip> What theories would there be to counter what he said?

 

[skinnycat]

What side of a travel trailer is the door on? The reason I ask is could they have let DeOrr hang out in there while they were in the tavern, he was sleeping when they came out so they let him stay sleeping, only he woke up on route to the campsite and opened the door, falling out no one noticed until they got to the site. When they did locate him he had already passed,

Just another crazy thought.

Spring is coming and I think so is justice

 

[Rayemonde]

Me, too, believing he was at the cg. But I'm not sure why people don't take into account what Reinwand told NE during the interview, which was that the child was left in his and ggf's care. Also that he disappeared while in their care. I'm curious to know what people think about that. Do you think he's not being truthful?
...
What theories would there be to counter what he said?

Have you watched the video of that "interview"? IR is clearly half asleep and has been ambushed on his doorstep, and is just mumbling agreeing with the reporter to make him go away, imo.

 

[Latestforever]

I have been a lurkie loo for quite a while now and I am still on the fence. I am not feeling like the parents purposely did something to sweet Deorr. I feel that either he did wander off and will be found or it was an accident:
I keep thinking about the ax; what if someone using the ax did not realize that Deorr was standing behind them and swung the ax hitting Deorr square under the chin and severely injured him, drinking was involved....
The other "accident"(I say accident but this one would really tick me off) would be that they did stop at the bar in the way to campsite, left Deorr in car with food and he choked to death.....
The last accident that I can come up with is that he was not buckled into his car seat either because he was able to unlatch himself or the parents were the type that didn't buckle him and just sat him in the seat(yes, there are parents like that-ugh) and the driver slammed on the brakes causing Deorr to have a closed head injury....
That is all I have, thank you to everyone who has posted for Deorr.