ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

[Dee10]

Speculating whether someone is guilty, innocent or somewhere in between is still speculating. We are not in a courtroom and everyone is allowed thankfully to have an opinion.

 

[Butler]

One thing to consider is that we are talking about the parents in the context of them being named as the prime suspects in their son's disappearance. You might choose to dismiss that LE/FBI and Klein believe they know where their son is. But many people don't dismiss that determination.

It's fine if hearing negative things about the suspects personally appalls you. But there is no reason to pretend that people here have based their understanding that the parents know where their son is on a new lip piercing or that JM has given herself crazy mom status in a cute way.

It's BECAUSE people believe the authorities that the parents are liars and guilty for covering up what happened to their son that people are on alert for their odd behavior. Not the other way around.


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BBM - I said I dismiss Klein & Vilt, not LE & FBI. SB has said they are suspects. To the best of my knowledge there has been no public statement directly from the FBI. We have statements from SB & Klein about the FBI but not a public statement from them.

<modsnip>

What we know - A small child is missing and most likely dead. (I feel he is still on the mountain and was not abducted.) We know the parents have stated they don't know what happened. We have LE stating the believe the parents know more than they are saying. We have two other people who were there but have not publically said much.

When and if they are arrested, I will eagerly await the outcome of a trial in a court of law.

 

[Jackeee]

Rayemonde, I apologize for spelling your name incorrectly. I'm usually a stickler for getting names right. Too late for me to edit. :facepalm:

 

[erinp]

I've been reading for a while trying to catch up but just fast forwarded from thread 23 to ask a question that may or may not have been raised in the interim. The scent trail being tracked to the reservoir but then being dismissed as cremains has bothered me for a while but I couldn't put my finger on why. Then I realised: whenever the scent trail to the reservoir is mentioned, it is in the context of "DeOrr's scent was tracked to the reservoir". So this was by dogs trained to follow a particular scent. Then when it is dismissed, it is in the context of "oh well, it was cremains and the scent of decaying/dead/cadaverised flesh is still with them, so the dogs could have been confused". But we were told that they were scent tracking dogs following DeOrr's scent, not that they were cadaver dogs. We were only told recently that there were cadaver dogs in the context of Klein saying that cadaver dog(s) "which no-one knew about" hit on a cadaver/death-fluid type scent on some equipment.

Scent tracking dogs and cadaver dogs are two quite different things, are they not? They dogs are trained for a particular thing. Was it scent tracking dogs following DeOrr's trail to the reservoir, in which case they would not have been confused by cremains? Or was it cadaver dogs looking for evidence of death around the reservoir in which case they would be confused by cremains, but being cadaver dogs they were not actually following DeOrr's particular scent as such?

Am I making this issue more complicated than it needs to be? Or am I right to be puzzled?

 

[DatelineFan]

BBM - I said I dismiss Klein & Vilt, not LE & FBI. SB has said they are suspects. To the best of my knowledge there has been no public statement directly from the FBI. We have statements from SB & Klein about the FBI but not a public statement from them.

<modsnip>What we know - A small child is missing and most likely dead. (I feel he is still on the mountain and was not abducted.) We know the parents have stated they don't know what happened. We have LE stating the believe the parents know more than they are saying. We have two other people who were there but have not publically said much.

When and if they are arrested, I will eagerly await the outcome of a trial in a court of law.

Personally, I'm appalled that Deorr is missing, and his parents can't tell the same story twice. It's pretty sad.

 

[kimi_SFC]

There is a privacy setting for each. I know this because I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make everything I post privet. I was getting frustrated because I finally got all my pictures privet amd my status. But still my shared post and profile pictures where still public. It turns out for each of those post you have to individually change the privacy.
And that is because shared post are usually from public pages like the shaking baby page was public. Profile pictures are also public.
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Just chiming in to say that you have the choice (except for profile pics, which are always public), to select the privacy settings on individual posts. This is via the app & on the web. There are a dropdown menus for this - and it can be retroactively adjusted as well.

This can give the appearance of a page that has gone "poof" when it has actually had settings changed. MOO until I find a link.

Select an audience on original post:
Image of the icons you can select - the globe means everyone:

image via Facebook Help Center

https://m.facebook.com/help/120939471321735?refid=69

Change audience after already posted:
This is the arrow that allows you to change the audience:

https://m.facebook.com/help/233739099984085?ref=related&refid=69
image via Facebook Help Center

There's a LOT more in the related links section at either link:

HTH

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[TheTruthWillOut]

I've been reading for a while trying to catch up but just fast forwarded from thread 23 to ask a question that may or may not have been raised in the interim. The scent trail being tracked to the reservoir but then being dismissed as cremains has bothered me for a while but I couldn't put my finger on why. Then I realised: whenever the scent trail to the reservoir is mentioned, it is in the context of "DeOrr's scent was tracked to the reservoir". So this was by dogs trained to follow a particular scent. Then when it is dismissed, it is in the context of "oh well, it was cremains and the scent of decaying/dead/cadaverised flesh is still with them, so the dogs could have been confused". But we were told that they were scent tracking dogs following DeOrr's scent, not that they were cadaver dogs. We were only told recently that there were cadaver dogs in the context of Klein saying that cadaver dog(s) "which no-one knew about" hit on a cadaver/death-fluid type scent on some equipment.

Scent tracking dogs and cadaver dogs are two quite different things, are they not? They dogs are trained for a particular thing. Was it scent tracking dogs following DeOrr's trail to the reservoir, in which case they would not have been confused by cremains? Or was it cadaver dogs looking for evidence of death around the reservoir in which case they would be confused by cremains, but being cadaver dogs they were not actually following DeOrr's particular scent as such?

Am I making this issue more complicated than it needs to be? Or am I right to be puzzled?

You make a very good point and to add to it is the fact the scent dogs were before the cremains incident anyway.

I still have that early trail by the tracking dogs down to the reservoir in the back of my mind. I think back to how Alice Gross was hidden and that in the latest interview there's a reference to "walking right past him".....

Edit: And wasn't there something about a spade with a hair on it too?

 

[Hippie Heart]

BBM - I said I dismiss Klein & Vilt, not LE & FBI. SB has said they are suspects. To the best of my knowledge there has been no public statement directly from the FBI. We have statements from SB & Klein about the FBI but not a public statement from them.

<modsnip>

What we know - A small child is missing and most likely dead. (I feel he is still on the mountain and was not abducted.) We know the parents have stated they don't know what happened. We have LE stating the believe the parents know more than they are saying. We have two other people who were there but have not publically said much.

When and if they are arrested, I will eagerly await the outcome of a trial in a court of law.

<modsnip>

And for the record, I will happily rescind anything I have said if they are found innocent. I hope in my heart of hearts they are, because it's hard for me to think anyone is capable of disappearing or killing (premeditated or accidental) their son.

OT but I also don't understand ethnic cleansing, nazis, and slavery. I find it hard to grasp the depth of depravity we see so often nowadays in fellow humans.

So I do hope they're innocent and somehow this all was a big misunderstanding of their failed polys, changing stories, etc etc. However, the evidence that we are aware of so far doesn't seem to indicate that's a possibility.

 

[giagreen]

Thank you for this post. I feel the same way. I am still reserving judgement on the parents. I am appalled by the malicious statements about JM & VDK. In a sense it wouldn't have mattered what they said in this last interview. Every statement has been picked apart to "prove" the mindset of those who proclaim they "know" JM & VDK are guilty of murder. Social media has been so bad even LE had to issue a statement for folks to tone it down.

How many have commented on JM's so called RBF, but yet hear her statement about "crazy mom status" (same type of generalization) and say it's proof she killed her son?

How do you know the lip piercing is new? Maybe she's had it awhile but didn't wearing a post in it. But somehow the fact she had a hair cut and put on some make up makes her guilty.

She doesn't talk much in the first interview, must be guilty. She talks too much in the last interview, must be guilty.

She posts to FB, must be guilty. Doesn't post what the public wants, must be guilty.

He uses the phrase "taco truck", must be guilty. He thinks about the food his son loved, must be guilty. He lets JM speak, must be guilty.

Some have said they have done nothing to look for their son, but yet their is video evidence of them doing exactly that.

I watched the interview and I guess I don't know anything about criminal behavior because I saw two parents who pulled themselves together for 30 minutes or so and spoke to a reporter. I didn't see "evidence" of guilt. I just hope that the folks who did see all the obvious evidence of guilt called SB or the FBI to let them know. I saw two parents who have a missing child and want him found. You may think I'm naïve for withhold judgement. I'm ok with that.

Just my opinion.

[emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]
I couldn't agree more.


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[Sillybilly]

We aren't here to judge or chastise other WSers. Please discuss the case and not each other.

:tyou:

 

[MBK]

Edit: And wasn't there something about a spade with a hair on it too?

Shovel, from my understanding, and the hair blew off. I feel that there's more to it than that, and I hope that somehow if there was possible evidence it wasn't lost or compromised.

 

[desert-blue]

re bold - but IR said he "saw" little DeOrr at about 1 / 1:10pm that Friday afternoon, per Sheriff Bowerman; so personally I think something happened after that time... JMO!

And IF (big IF) he was adopted out, I would think that the people that have him would be a bit scared. No? Unless, like someone said, he's been taken to Canada.

I guess no snow melt at the campground? Soon I'm hoping!

:rose: little DeOrr - searchers are coming!

I'm not sure about IR... I think he said they returned from the store around 1:00, but I'm not convinced he saw DeOrr... just my feeling. I agree about the snow melt - spring can't come soon enough. In typical Idaho fashion, we seem to be having a second round of winter right now. Hopefully it will pass quickly and warm up!

 

[bessie]

(modsnip)

Okay, link works. Hope it's within tos to post it.

It's not.

 

[gliving]

It's not.

LOL, you are fast!! Thank you Bessie. It went through post preview but I wasn't sure.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I'm not sure about IR... I think he said they returned from the store around 1:00, but I'm not convinced he saw DeOrr... just my feeling. I agree about the snow melt - spring can't come soon enough. In typical Idaho fashion, we seem to be having a second round of winter right now. Hopefully it will pass quickly and warm up!

IR only confirmed that yes he had seen DeOrr during the trip. He didn't personally detail any times, dates, where he saw him or what he was doing.

SB said the parents reckoned they'd got back from the store trip around 1pm and that IR had agreed with that, but he wasn't clock watching, it just sounded about right. SB also confirmed IR had seen DeOrr, but didn't state exactly when that was.

It was/is ambiguous and we still don't know when IR actually saw DeOrr. I wish we did....

 

[Lillahazel]

IR only confirmed that yes he had seen DeOrr during the trip. He didn't personally detail any times, dates, where he saw him or what he was doing.

SB said the parents reckoned they'd got back from the store trip around 1pm and that IR had agreed with that, but he wasn't clock watching, it just sounded about right. SB also confirmed IR had seen DeOrr, but didn't state exactly when that was.

It was/is ambiguous and we still don't know when IR actually saw DeOrr. I wish we did....

I also don't remember hearing if IR saw DeOrr alive. Is it possible he only saw an illusion of him? Like he was told he was sleeping or something?


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[haven71]

For one, a vehicle of the kidnapper would have to be close by. So the whole kidnapping theory is just ridiculous. So when they started to push that it made no sense. They would have us believe there were tons of strangers around and he was snatched. But from the sounds of the campground there was nobody even close to them except for the other campers up near the lake. And LE did talk with them already.

All JMO

I don't know why but when I think of their initial account about how he just vanished in an instant, it made me wonder if that was leakage. That whatever happened, murder or accident, also happened very suddenly.

This is neither here nor there, but just thinking aloud.

 

[gliving]

I don't know why but when I think of their initial account about how he just vanished in an instant, it made me wonder if that was leakage. That whatever happened, murder or accident, also happened very suddenly.

This is neither here nor there, but just thinking aloud.

Ha Ha, I wish someone would come up with a better term than leakage. I cringe every time.

 

[kammiemc]

BBM - I said I dismiss Klein & Vilt, not LE & FBI. SB has said they are suspects. To the best of my knowledge there has been no public statement directly from the FBI. We have statements from SB & Klein about the FBI but not a public statement from them.



What we know - A small child is missing and most likely dead. (I feel he is still on the mountain and was not abducted.) We know the parents have stated they don't know what happened. We have LE stating the believe the parents know more than they are saying. We have two other people who were there but have not publically said much.

When and if they are arrested, I will eagerly await the outcome of a trial in a court of law.

I disagree. To say LE has said that the parents know more than they are saying drastically and totally minimizes what LE has said. The sheriff has said, unequivocally, that the parents know that he knows that the parents are lying and that they really know where their son is. (Also, the sheriff said that the top expert on polygraphs at the FBI told him that the parents are lying. I did not do a direct quote because, obviously we don't have a direct quote from the FBI. We have a paraphrase from the sheriff. I happen to believe that he is stating the truth about what FBI said.)

If you are looking for a court of law (and for people in the court to abide by all the rules and laws that dictate their determinations) this isn't that. What I understand, and why I am here, is that this is an online sleuthing site where posters are allowed to share their opinions about the prime suspects as long as they stay in within TOS.

 

[J4cknsal1y]

You make a very good point and to add to it is the fact the scent dogs were before the cremains incident anyway.

I still have that early trail by the tracking dogs down to the reservoir in the back of my mind. I think back to how Alice Gross was hidden and that in the latest interview there's a reference to "walking right past him".....

Edit: And wasn't there something about a spade with a hair on it too?

I keep feeling like there's something being missed with the scent dogs going to the reservoir then losing scent. Your post & the one you replied to flipped a switch on. What if JM/VDK (or anyone else for that matter) had blood or some other sort of fluids/mess on them from Deorr after whatever happened. I know many camping trailers have showers in them, & many camp grounds are equipped with public bathrooms that include showers. I'm not certain if they had access to either of these types of showers, however, & even if they did, they may have felt it would be way too obvious/risky. For example, in a camper equipped with shower/toilet, there is a waste tank that all the water drains to. If you shower, that tank has to be emptied out sooner/more often because they only hold so much. I think it would be suspicious if SAR/SB etc. noticed the waste tank quite full even though they just arrived the night before. In my experience the tanks have been a translucent white color, so if they tried showering to rid blood, I think it'd also be obvious looking at the translucent tank that there was something going on. Maybe that's why they bought the feminine supplies-so they could say that was what any blood was from, who knows.

But back to what I'm really thinking (agh to my ADD) what if one of them went down to the reservoir to 'clean up'? Could that be why the dogs were tracking the scent there but then losing it? Because someone carried the scent there, & left it In the reservoir where they washed it off themselve(s)? Also would explain why his scent tracked to there but he was not found in or near the water. I know it's possible he's stuck under something, but SB seems confident that isn't the case.

This is is probably all pretty far fetched & probably doesn't actually make sense, but at this point, what does??