ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

[Lillahazel]

I don't think it's a negative thing that her son cheered her up when she was depressed. I have severe depression, especially in the winter and my 4 year old has cheered me up when I'm having a bad day. He'll come in and jump on me and say "hey mama! Turn that frown upside down!" And I laugh every time and we tickle and giggle and I feel better and pull myself together. All mothers have moments of feeling irritated or depressed, so its not fair to hold those basic human emotions against a person. Painting a picture of an angry home life based on thay statement is just us speculating. She may have simply been trying to describe what a loving boy he was, how empathetic, even at a young age and honestly, since she is distressed (even for selfish reasons) she may miss those moments of having someone loving her unconditionally. On national TV, she had to say *something* nice about her son and his attention to her is probably what she misses the most. Selfish, cold people still want to feel love and I'm certain that baby Deorr worshipped her, as babies do to thier mothers. She sure hasn't been feeling the love lately!

The story about DJ cheering JM up didn't bother me but the lack of emotion that mirrored the story did.

 

[Hippie Heart]

What is twisted and disturbing is that there is a missing two year old and yet the topic is about JM fb status. That within it self is twisted.

Speaking of priorities.....if my son was missing and a whole group was dedicated to posting screen shots of my status updates I'd be upset that the topic was me and not my son so I'd make them private so the topic stayed on my missing child. You act as if this wasn't on Nancy Grace or that Nate wasn't getting his face out.

But of course that's just imo [emoji3]

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Well, LE has clearly stated there is zero evidence of an abduction and IIRC they said they don't think a selling/adopting theory is a possibility.

They have named the parents as suspects and said they know where Little Deorr is. Klein has stated he believes he is deceased. They have all (LE and Klein) stated they are returning to the area to continue searching at first thaw. I'm pretty sure they don't think he's living in a bear cave subsisting on plants. I'm pretty confident they're going to try and recover a body. So why in the world would JM's behavior (including FB posts) be irrelevant or as you stayed, twisted? What is more appropriate to discuss than a suspect's behavior, on camera, spoken, written or otherwise when they're suspected of disappearing their son?

JMHO

 

[Leader6518]

DVK said the memory of the last time he saw his son is fading. My daughter died at birth in 1972. The sight of her being taken away from me will never fade. fwiw

Exactly! My son died July 7, 2015. I still remember the last time I saw him. It is etched in my memory.

 

[giagreen]

Well, LE has clearly stated there is zero evidence of an abduction and IIRC they said they don't think a selling/adopting theory is a possibility.

They have named the parents as suspects and said they know where Little Deorr is. Klein has stated he believes he is deceased. They have all (LE and Klein) stated they are returning to the area to continue searching at first thaw. I'm pretty sure they don't think he's living in a bear cave subsisting on plants. I'm pretty confident they're going to try and recover a body. So why in the world would JM's behavior (including FB posts) be irrelevant or as you stayed, twisted? What is more appropriate to discuss than a suspect's behavior, on camera, spoken, written or otherwise when they're suspected of disappearing their son?

JMHO

I've seen guilty parents fool the world and have watched innocent parents get slammed by media and spectators. I've learned from past mistakes that how a person acts doesn't mean as much as we might think.
What she shares is irrelevant to finding DeOrr. She isn't going to just post where he is. There probably isn't any hidden meaning behind her post. She is probably smart enough to realize that even her privet post are not truly privet.
The screen shots of her post are purely for other people's entertainment at this point. It isn't helping. It isn't useful. And all its done is take the spot light off DeOrr.

You don't have to agree with me. Or even try to look at it from a diffrent view. I can respect that. But this is how I feel and have always felt. It hurts my heart to read such negativity and hateful gossip even if the two are guilty. Because until they are charged and convicted I won't know everything LE has on them. And I can't deem anyone guilty enough to feel good about myself taking part in all that based off of speculation.

LE has said they are suspects. I don't really care if they are or not. I beleive one way or another the truth will be coming soon enough. But when people are charged with a crime they have their rights for a reason. The prosecution has the burden of proof for a reason as well. Proof isn't a fb status or lip piercing. In the mean time DeOrr is lost in all this.

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[DatelineFan]

Exactly! My son died July 7, 2015. I still remember the last time I saw him. It is etched in my memory.

I'm sorry about your son. I really can't imagine.

 

[Niner]

I think the "we left him with great grandpa while we went exploring/fishing/hiking" story is made up (or a "myth" as Klein has stated). I think something happened to DeOrr much earlier in the day, maybe even in the middle of the night. I think the whole day Friday from probably 8:00 am forward was spent covering-up (and that's why their stories never match - it's all made up because in reality they were doing something else). I really don't feel that VDK or JM would cover for GGPA either. They're both way too selfish to risk being punished for something that GGPA did (covering up a death and lying to officials for 8 months is a crime). I'm also not so sure that JM would be all that torn up over not seeing her other children because it sounds like she was okay with allowing her ex to have full custody for the past few years. All JMO... I do think that whatever happened was accidental, but if DeOrr was harmed and medical attention was denied, that sort of moves into the territory of intentional (if they knew he would die without medical care). MOO.

re bold - but IR said he "saw" little DeOrr at about 1 / 1:10pm that Friday afternoon, per Sheriff Bowerman; so personally I think something happened after that time... JMO!

And IF (big IF) he was adopted out, I would think that the people that have him would be a bit scared. No? Unless, like someone said, he's been taken to Canada.

I guess no snow melt at the campground? Soon I'm hoping!

:rose: little DeOrr - searchers are coming!

 

[Niner]

Exactly! My son died July 7, 2015. I still remember the last time I saw him. It is etched in my memory.

:grouphug:

 

[Onebest]

Exactly! My son died July 7, 2015. I still remember the last time I saw him. It is etched in my memory.

I am so very sorry about your son.

 

[Butler]

I've seen guilty parents fool the world and have watched innocent parents get slammed by media and spectators. I've learned from past mistakes that how a person acts doesn't mean as much as we might think.
What she shares is irrelevant to finding DeOrr. She isn't going to just post where he is. There probably isn't any hidden meaning behind her post. She is probably smart enough to realize that even her privet post are not truly privet.
The screen shots of her post are purely for other people's entertainment at this point. It isn't helping. It isn't useful. And all its done is take the spot light off DeOrr.

You don't have to agree with me. Or even try to look at it from a diffrent view. I can respect that. But this is how I feel and have always felt. It hurts my heart to read such negativity and hateful gossip even if the two are guilty. Because until they are charged and convicted I won't know everything LE has on them. And I can't deem anyone guilty enough to feel good about myself taking part in all that based off of speculation.

LE has said they are suspects. I don't really care if they are or not. I beleive one way or another the truth will be coming soon enough. But when people are charged with a crime they have their rights for a reason. The prosecution has the burden of proof for a reason as well. Proof isn't a fb status or lip piercing. In the mean time DeOrr is lost in all this.

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Thank you for this post. I feel the same way. I am still reserving judgement on the parents. I am appalled by the malicious statements about JM & VDK. In a sense it wouldn't have mattered what they said in this last interview. Every statement has been picked apart to "prove" the mindset of those who proclaim they "know" JM & VDK are guilty of murder. Social media has been so bad even LE had to issue a statement for folks to tone it down.

How many have commented on JM's so called RBF, but yet hear her statement about "crazy mom status" (same type of generalization) and say it's proof she killed her son?

How do you know the lip piercing is new? Maybe she's had it awhile but didn't wearing a post in it. But somehow the fact she had a hair cut and put on some make up makes her guilty.

She doesn't talk much in the first interview, must be guilty. She talks too much in the last interview, must be guilty.

She posts to FB, must be guilty. Doesn't post what the public wants, must be guilty.

He uses the phrase "taco truck", must be guilty. He thinks about the food his son loved, must be guilty. He lets JM speak, must be guilty.

Some have said they have done nothing to look for their son, but yet their is video evidence of them doing exactly that.

I watched the interview and I guess I don't know anything about criminal behavior because I saw two parents who pulled themselves together for 30 minutes or so and spoke to a reporter. I didn't see "evidence" of guilt. I just hope that the folks who did see all the obvious evidence of guilt called SB or the FBI to let them know. I saw two parents who have a missing child and want him found. You may think I'm naïve for withhold judgement. I'm ok with that.

Just my opinion.

 

[sonjay]

Thank you for this post. I feel the same way. I am still reserving judgement on the parents. I am appalled by the malicious statements about JM & VDK. In a sense it wouldn't have mattered what they said in this last interview. Every statement has been picked apart to "prove" the mindset of those who proclaim they "know" JM & VDK are guilty of murder. Social media has been so bad even LE had to issue a statement for folks to tone it down.

How many have commented on JM's so called RBF, but yet hear her statement about "crazy mom status" (same type of generalization) and say it's proof she killed her son?

How do you know the lip piercing is new? Maybe she's had it awhile but didn't wearing a post in it. But somehow the fact she had a hair cut and put on some make up makes her guilty.

She doesn't talk much in the first interview, must be guilty. She talks too much in the last interview, must be guilty.

She posts to FB, must be guilty. Doesn't post what the public wants, must be guilty.

He uses the phrase "taco truck", must be guilty. He thinks about the food his son loved, must be guilty. He lets JM speak, must be guilty.

Some have said they have done nothing to look for their son, but yet their is video evidence of them doing exactly that.

I watched the interview and I guess I don't know anything about criminal behavior because I saw two parents who pulled themselves together for 30 minutes or so and spoke to a reporter. I didn't see "evidence" of guilt. I just hope that the folks who did see all the obvious evidence of guilt called SB or the FBI to let them know. I saw two parents who have a missing child and want him found. You may think I'm naïve for withhold judgement. I'm ok with that.

Just my opinion.

I don't think they're guilty because of any of the things you listed.

I think they're guilty because they can't tell the same story twice, they've collectively failed nine polygraph tests, and every law enforcement agency and private investigator involved in the case has concluded that they're lying and that they know where DeOrr is and what happened to him.

I'm not sure exactly what they're guilty of, but they're guilty, IMO.

 

[Hippie Heart]

Thank you for this post. I feel the same way. I am still reserving judgement on the parents. I am appalled by the malicious statements about JM & VDK. In a sense it wouldn't have mattered what they said in this last interview. Every statement has been picked apart to "prove" the mindset of those who proclaim they "know" JM & VDK are guilty of murder. Social media has been so bad even LE had to issue a statement for folks to tone it down.

How many have commented on JM's so called RBF, but yet hear her statement about "crazy mom status" (same type of generalization) and say it's proof she killed her son?

How do you know the lip piercing is new? Maybe she's had it awhile but didn't wearing a post in it. But somehow the fact she had a hair cut and put on some make up makes her guilty.

She doesn't talk much in the first interview, must be guilty. She talks too much in the last interview, must be guilty.

She posts to FB, must be guilty. Doesn't post what the public wants, must be guilty.

He uses the phrase "taco truck", must be guilty. He thinks about the food his son loved, must be guilty. He lets JM speak, must be guilty.

Some have said they have done nothing to look for their son, but yet their is video evidence of them doing exactly that.

I watched the interview and I guess I don't know anything about criminal behavior because I saw two parents who pulled themselves together for 30 minutes or so and spoke to a reporter. I didn't see "evidence" of guilt. I just hope that the folks who did see all the obvious evidence of guilt called SB or the FBI to let them know. I saw two parents who have a missing child and want him found. You may think I'm naïve for withhold judgement. I'm ok with that.

Just my opinion.

I'm not sure if this was directed at me since you quoted giagreen's reply which was to me. But let me say, I have never suggested her lip piercing indicates guilt. In fact, if you check my earlier posts today, you will see I even defended her haircut/highlights. I don't think VDK hesitating before saying "taco truck" is indicative of anything. I think he was simply searching for the word (food truck? taco truck?) I actually think I have been pretty fair in my comments because IMHO I don't agree that everything others have discussed necessarily indicates guilt.

I *did* mention her casual tone and felt it was odd to label herself as "crazy mom status", but I'm a mom. I'm going off my gut as a mother. I don't think it's that statement alone that indicates guilt. It's the entire picture of lots of odd things, lack of grief, failed polygraphs, mismatching never ending accounts of Friday July 10th.

What I do think is that we are on a sleuthing forum, and as such it is fair and appropriate to "sleuth" the suspects. One way of doing that is behavioral analysis. I'm not the FBI by any stretch of the imagination but gosh, isn't that why they have a Behavioral Analysis Unit? Because people's behavior can be an indication of guilt or innocence?

I think the interview is very confusing, at least to me. I sometimes vacillate in my opinions because I see some sincerity yet other things are like flashing red lights to me. So because I vacillate, I have decided to believe LE/FBI who has spent hundreds, if not thousands, of man hours searching, researching, interviewing, etc. I feel SB holds things close to his vest and has been very conservative in his comments. He seems wise and careful to me. If he felt it necessary to publicly name them as suspects, why is it wrong to sleuth them in a sleuthing forum?

I guess I detected a bit of dismissing of people who think they might be guilty in your post. But as giagreen pointed out, I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[Hippie Heart]

I don't think they're guilty because of any of the things you listed.

I think they're guilty because they can't tell the same story twice, they've collectively failed nine polygraph tests, and every law enforcement agency and private investigator involved in the case has concluded that they're lying and that they know where DeOrr is and what happened to him.

I'm not sure exactly what they're guilty of, but they're guilty, IMO.

Thank you for this! Great post.

 

[Little Ol Me]

I watched the interview and I guess I don't know anything about criminal behavior because I saw two parents who pulled themselves together for 30 minutes or so and spoke to a reporter. I didn't see "evidence" of guilt. I just hope that the folks who did see all the obvious evidence of guilt called SB or the FBI to let them know. I saw two parents who have a missing child and want him found. You may think I'm naïve for withhold judgement. I'm ok with that.

Just my opinion.

I agree. I watched the interview as well and didn't see or hear evidence of guilt. However, I'm certainly not any kind of an expert in that area.
I don't think you're naïve at all for withholding judgment. In the end, it may prove to have been wise.

 

[DatelineFan]

I really think most people who are saying the parents are guilty, are not coming to this conclusion simply based on interviews. The FBI, law enforcement and PI all agree that the parents know where Deorr is, and have been lying. Given that information, most people will also look at other possible indicators of guilt.

I have not seen one post here, that says they must be guilty because of a piercing or haircut, etc.

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm not sure if this was directed at me since you quoted giagreen's reply which was to me. But let me say, I have never suggested her lip piercing indicates guilt. In fact, if you check my earlier posts today, you will see I even defended her haircut/highlights. I don't think VDK hesitating before saying "taco truck" is indicative of anything. I think he was simply searching for the word (food truck? taco truck?) I actually think I have been pretty fair in my comments because IMHO I don't agree that everything others have discussed necessarily indicates guilt.

I *did* mention her casual tone and felt it was odd to label herself as "crazy mom status", but I'm a mom. I'm going off my gut as a mother. I don't think it's that statement alone that indicates guilt. It's the entire picture of lots of odd things, lack of grief, failed polygraphs, mismatching never ending accounts of Friday July 10th.

What I do think is that we are on a sleuthing forum, and as such it is fair and appropriate to "sleuth" the suspects. One way of doing that is behavioral analysis. I'm not the FBI by any stretch of the imagination but gosh, isn't that why they have a Behavioral Analysis Unit? Because people's behavior can be an indication of guilt or innocence?

I think the interview is very confusing, at least to me. I sometimes vacillate in my opinions because I see some sincerity yet other things are like flashing red lights to me. So because I vacillate, I have decided to believe LE/FBI who has spent hundreds, if not thousands, of man hours searching, researching, interviewing, etc. I feel SB holds things close to his vest and has been very conservative in his comments. He seems wise and careful to me. If he felt it necessary to publicly name them as suspects, why is it wrong to sleuth them in a sleuthing forum?

I guess I detected a bit of dismissing of people who think they might be guilty in your post. But as giagreen pointed out, I guess we can agree to disagree.

:goodpost:

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I really think most people who are saying the parents are guilty, are not coming to this conclusion simply based on interviews. The FBI, law enforcement and PI all agree that the parents know where Deorr is, and have been lying. Given that information, most people will also look at other possible indicators of guilt.

I have not seen one post here, that says they must be guilty because of a piercing or haircut, etc.

Agreed. We must remember the police, FBI, behavioural analysts and PI's have all spent hours with this couple, talking about nothing other than DeOrr. They're not going to base their damning theories on polygraphs alone - especially when some states and even whole countries (mine included) don't trust polygraphs enough to use them in a court of law.

I could possibly be more swayed towards innocence if just one policeman vaguely alluded to guilt. But for ALL of them, including the PI hired by the actual family, to slam the parents as they have there has to be something in it. We know a fraction of what they all do, we have never sat and talked to the parents, we have to place some trust in those who have.

Changing topic completely - has anyone ever asked the parents whether DeOrr had a toy car with him when he vanished? His mum made it very clear he was never without one. If he is buried somewhere with a toy car, a metal detector would pick that up, right?

 

[kammiemc]

Thank you for this post. I feel the same way. I am still reserving judgement on the parents. I am appalled by the malicious statements about JM & VDK. In a sense it wouldn't have mattered what they said in this last interview. Every statement has been picked apart to "prove" the mindset of those who proclaim they "know" JM & VDK are guilty of murder. Social media has been so bad even LE had to issue a statement for folks to tone it down.

How many have commented on JM's so called RBF, but yet hear her statement about "crazy mom status" (same type of generalization) and say it's proof she killed her son?

How do you know the lip piercing is new? Maybe she's had it awhile but didn't wearing a post in it. But somehow the fact she had a hair cut and put on some make up makes her guilty.

She doesn't talk much in the first interview, must be guilty. She talks too much in the last interview, must be guilty.

She posts to FB, must be guilty. Doesn't post what the public wants, must be guilty.

He uses the phrase "taco truck", must be guilty. He thinks about the food his son loved, must be guilty. He lets JM speak, must be guilty.

Some have said they have done nothing to look for their son, but yet their is video evidence of them doing exactly that.

I watched the interview and I guess I don't know anything about criminal behavior because I saw two parents who pulled themselves together for 30 minutes or so and spoke to a reporter. I didn't see "evidence" of guilt. I just hope that the folks who did see all the obvious evidence of guilt called SB or the FBI to let them know. I saw two parents who have a missing child and want him found. You may think I'm naïve for withhold judgement. I'm ok with that.

Just my opinion.

One thing to consider is that we are talking about the parents in the context of them being named as the prime suspects in their son's disappearance. You might choose to dismiss that LE/FBI and Klein believe they know where their son is. But many people don't dismiss that determination.

It's fine if hearing negative things about the suspects personally appalls you. But there is no reason to pretend that people here have based their understanding that the parents know where their son is on a new lip piercing or that JM has given herself crazy mom status in a cute way.

It's BECAUSE people believe the authorities that the parents are liars and guilty for covering up what happened to their son that people are on alert for their odd behavior. Not the other way around.


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[12madelyn]

I have not seen one post here, that says they must be guilty because of a piercing or haircut, etc

Not sure what you're saying. I said she was very made-up and I feel that is unusual. It as though she wanted to look good for the camera. She did not at all look haggard, which I would as a frantic mom. When she cried, all I could think was "boo-hoo, poor me. I hope my mascara doesn't run. I'll keep my hand on my eye so it doesn't."

 

[kammiemc]

I found this facial expression quite interesting.

View attachment 90586

View attachment 90587
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/07/that-look-that-weiner-spitzer-clinton-look/?_r=0

That's bad too! Not nearly as bad as covering the death of a child, but bad. What is that? A look of shame, contempt for being blamed? Lying? I know I have read about what it means for the sides of the mouth to be pulled down, but I can't recall. I guess based on these pics the commonality would be people who have done something very wrong and are being called out on it?


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[DatelineFan]

Not sure what you're saying. I said she was very made-up and I feel that is unusual. It as though she wanted to look good for the camera. She did not at all look haggard, which I would as a frantic mom. When she cried, all I could think was "boo-hoo, poor me. I hope my mascara doesn't run. I'll keep my hand on my eye so it doesn't."

I was saying that I have not seen anyone point to her looks (hair, piercing, etc.) as guilt. I'm not sure how I could be more clear.

??

Of course it's difficult to understand if you take me out of context.