ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

[Karinna]

In my experience kids that age tend to focus on one or two things they aren't supposed to do & put all their energy into doing that. Opening & shutting the camper door until they slam their fingers or get bumped off the step by someone coming out- all my kids.
Oh that steep embankment that everyone else goes down but they aren't allowed near- run fast as you can towards it every chance you get.

DeOrr was a normal little boy, rambunctious & learning limits. He SHOULD have been misbehaving, squirting the mustard into the dirt, getting into things & driving my everyone nutty.
There is no description provided by anyone to indicate that he was a lively, regular two year old on this camping trip.
I am beginning to wonder about the drive from Idaho Falls to Leadore. Was he napping? Jabbering? Screeching the whole time? The more I think about this the more concerned I become that these parents not only participated in their child's death, have actively covered it up, but may have also passed his deceased or significantly ill body off as a sleeping baby.

You bring up some really good points in your post. Normally when discussing & remembering about a child and all the funny things they have done and all their little things that are forming their character can be a very sore point if you have a deceased child. Initially from my own personal experience of losing an adult child it was a long time before i could even talk about the really good memories of him. What was first & foremost in my mind was the shock of his sudden death.
I don't know with JM & VDK and it depends on what they know & are thinking happened to Deorr. Even if Deorr had a fatal accident and are covering that up, and they are not monsters as some of the parents that have caused their child to disappear they would still have to be grieving to an extent IMO.

 

[Lillahazel]

The more I think about this the more concerned I become that these parents not only participated in their child's death, have actively covered it up, but may have also passed his deceased or significantly ill body off as a sleeping baby.

They could have potentially done this for several days. How would a normal person know to spot the difference between a little boy napping on Mom or Dads shoulders vs. him being deceased. Yuck that made me ill writing that. Based on others research it takes a dog 3 days to know the difference between alive and deceased.

 

[ReadySet]

How many blankets did the have for Deorr on the trip? Does anyone know? What was the "replica"?

Having just watched the first interview again, I do think VDK meant that the blanket was the definition of a security blanket. JMO, he was saying that the baby's blanket was his security object.

Having said that, for those who believe the baby was "adopted out", which I don't believe for a second, that means the parents denied Deorr his most cherished positions in his new "home."

 

[desert-blue]

In my experience kids that age tend to focus on one or two things they aren't supposed to do & put all their energy into doing that. Opening & shutting the camper door until they slam their fingers or get bumped off the step by someone coming out- all my kids.
Oh that steep embankment that everyone else goes down but they aren't allowed near- run fast as you can towards it every chance you get.

DeOrr was a normal little boy, rambunctious & learning limits. He SHOULD have been misbehaving, squirting the mustard into the dirt, getting into things & driving my everyone nutty.
There is no description provided by anyone to indicate that he was a lively, regular two year old on this camping trip.
I am beginning to wonder about the drive from Idaho Falls to Leadore. Was he napping? Jabbering? Screeching the whole time? The more I think about this the more concerned I become that these parents not only participated in their child's death, have actively covered it up, but may have also passed his deceased or significantly ill body off as a sleeping baby.

I know. He should have been all over that campground - in the tent and in the camper and every other place. Why did the dogs not find his scent? Why was there no trace of him found? It's like he wasn't there. Outside of the parents saying he played with his hotwheels, we haven't heard one thing about his camping experience. I think it might be because his camping trip was cut short. Very very short. I too think the confusion over whether IR saw DeOrr could be because he saw him "sleeping" (or was told he was sleeping) and only later realized that perhaps something else was going on. MOO

 

[DatelineFan]

They could have potentially done this for several days. How would a normal person know to spot the difference between a little boy napping on Mom or Dads shoulders vs. him being deceased. Yuck that made me ill writing that. Based on others research it takes a dog 3 days to know the difference between alive and deceased.

I think rigor mortis settles in after a couple of hours. This causes the body to become stiff. Lividity poses another issue. I don't want to type the details, but you can Google.

 

[Beezneez]

Assuming the piercing is new, I think the timing is what is troubling (at least to me). I'm not a big fan of lip/nose/face piercings, but it seems to be a fad right now and I can't see that it has any bearing on a person's ability to be a good parent. However, JM isn't just any parent, she is a parent suspected of disappearing her son, and as such is in the spotlight. Her actions speak volumes and she knows she is under scrutiny. She complains about social media but she went and got a new piercing? She knew it would generate a response on social media (and it did). She seems to be enjoying the spotlight, if you ask me. Otherwise it makes no sense for her to draw MORE attention to herself - she's just adding fuel to the fire - the same exact fire that she claims she wants put out. My observation has been that the response has been overwhelmingly negative, mainly because it seems to be another reflection of her self absorption and more indication that she's moved on and isn't that concerned with finding her son. It almost seems like an act of defiance to me. If she is trying to convince the public that she is innocent, this didn't help, IMO. And, if she is innocent, why didn't she just decide to wait until she is cleared by LE and then go get a piercing? It's not like getting a piercing could possibly be that urgent. All MOO. And now I kind of feel like I'm beating a dead horse...

I'll tell you why. She is an immature person heavily burdened with projected responsibility from a very young age. She has poor impulse control and is experiencing the first time of freedom she has ever had. She went from child to mother & now is neither. She is the fiancé of her apparent dream guy. She can play up the big victim/0ity party card, she is no longer holding up the responsibilities of mothering or working for a living. Why wouldn't she go out & spend $100 on herself for a big expressive piercing? She is sowing her oats. I hope she snags her face on something.

 

[ReadySet]

The same kind that gets a "Bella Vita" tattoo after their child goes missing?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...pvt=casey+anthony+tattoo+bella+vida&FORM=IGRE

I'm not sure of JMs guilt, but your post did take me right back to that other case.

Sorry to intrude, carry on.

:cow:

Mabye JM is ready to move on. In addition ca, makes me think of ja in the Travis Alexander case.

 

[Lillahazel]

Having just watched the first interview again, I do think VDK meant that the blanket was the definition of a security blanket. JMO, he was saying that the baby's blanket was his security object.

Having said that, for those who believe the baby was "adopted out", which I don't believe for a second, that means the parents denied Deorr his most cherished positions in his new "home."

In any scenario the blanket really gets to me and I have a hard time moving past it. It's one of the biggest factors for me to sway to a non accident. How cruel and selfish could you be to deny your child their most loved security item?

 

[Beezneez]

I think rigor mortis settles in after a couple of hours. This causes the body to become stiff. Lividity poses another issue. I don't want to type the details, but you can Google.

Yes, but if the baby were clothed in a sweater & long pants the entire time, no one would see the indications of lividity would not be apparent. He had a very fair facial complexion. If a child wasn't as rosy cheeked as they ought to be would it be noticed by someone who presumably doesn't spent a lot of time with kids (IR)? I wonder how GGP vision is?

 

[Trident]

I agree there are usually similarities in some of these missing child cases, but in Casey's case i don't think she would ever have reported her child missing and it was her mother that alerted the authorities or we probably would never of heard about Caylee.

Well, do you "think" JM would have reported DeOrr missing if their hadn't been 3 other people there? I have no idea, I only know I saw a glaring (to me) similarity. Of course every case is different. Hell, they even live in different states. I don't get the point of your post.

 

[kshultz06082]

I am many pages behind right now, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

I have absolutely no idea what happened to this baby or where he could be, BUT I do believe his parents know those things. At this point, I truly believe that their hope is GGP's health continues to deteriorate to the point where he can not defend himself at all. Whether that means because he passes away or because his mental capacity has deteriorated to the point that he cannot be considered a reliable witness, I am not sure. What I am 99% sure of, is if either of those options happen, they are going to blame everything on him. So, for VDK and JM, the longer little Deorr isn't found, the better for them because evidence will be hard to come by and GGP will be more viable to toss under the proverbial bus.

If the above happens, people will wonder why then didn't they just say that instead of all the less than truths... Obvious answer is they were protecting GGP... If he passes away, he can't defend against what they are accusing him of and I highly doubt they care what people will think of GGP after he dies.... In reality, they probably did whatever happened to Deorr but GGP is an easy scapegoat.

Moo

 

[Karinna]

This is such a perplexing case. We know from what LE have stated they think the know that the parents of Deorr know where he is & what happened to him because JM & VDK's stories are inconsistent and if you go by the poly's they are inconclusive, the ones we know about anyway.
We don't know what other evidence they have? Have LE actually stated that Deorr is deceased? I think LE also are maybe going with an accident as opposed to outright murder scenario, but i could be wrong.
I am not thinking they purposely murdered Deorr. In following some of the cases online i think there are cases where it is fairly obvious as to a child's fate, and that is what gets discovered, but in this case for me anyway not so much.
I think about cadaver dog evidence but i think so far we have only heard that cadaver dogs alerted to the Resevoir.
I know what Klein said about "equipment", but that hasn't been verified by LE to my knowledge?
I certainly hope that whatever happened to Deorr will be made known in due course, and that the rest of his family will have some type of closure.

 

[desert-blue]

I'll tell you why. She is an immature person heavily burdened with projected responsibility from a very young age. She has poor impulse control and is experiencing the first time of freedom she has ever had. She went from child to mother & now is neither. She is the fiancé of her apparent dream guy. She can play up the big victim/0ity party card, she is no longer holding up the responsibilities of mothering or working for a living. Why wouldn't she go out & spend $100 on herself for a big expressive piercing? She is sowing her oats. I hope she snags her face on something.

Well, when you put it that way.... (lol) (I was expecting the answer to be "because she isn't innocent"... but this works too... )

 

[giagreen]

They could have potentially done this for several days. How would a normal person know to spot the difference between a little boy napping on Mom or Dads shoulders vs. him being deceased. Yuck that made me ill writing that. Based on others research it takes a dog 3 days to know the difference between alive and deceased.

Surly IR was some what coherence.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

 

[ReadySet]

In my experience kids that age tend to focus on one or two things they aren't supposed to do & put all their energy into doing that. Opening & shutting the camper door until they slam their fingers or get bumped off the step by someone coming out- all my kids.
Oh that steep embankment that everyone else goes down but they aren't allowed near- run fast as you can towards it every chance you get.

DeOrr was a normal little boy, rambunctious & learning limits. He SHOULD have been misbehaving, squirting the mustard into the dirt, getting into things & driving my everyone nutty.
There is no description provided by anyone to indicate that he was a lively, regular two year old on this camping trip.
I am beginning to wonder about the drive from Idaho Falls to Leadore. Was he napping? Jabbering? Screeching the whole time? The more I think about this the more concerned I become that these parents not only participated in their child's death, have actively covered it up, but may have also passed his deceased or significantly ill body off as a sleeping baby.

Exactly. I want to hear, from them, about their child on the trip from IF to Leadore and the campground. I finished listening to their interviews again. There was almost nothing about him during those times.
In the first interview, they said "He was playing." "He was getting ready for his nap." That's it. Nothing in the other interviews. Isn't that strange, or is it just me? Shouldn't they have said something about what he was doing, how he was acting, if he was happy or excited? If he was sleepng, cranky, difficult, why not say that? So, for me, that is one of the big red flags helping me believe they were responsible for his disappearance.

Because you know how the saying goes---if they don't say it, you can't say it for them.

 

[Karinna]

Well, do you "think" JM would have reported DeOrr missing if their hadn't been 3 other people there? I have no idea, I only know I saw a glaring (to me) similarity. Of course every case is different. Hell, they even live in different states. I don't get the point of your post.

It was just an observation is all.

 

[Beezneez]

Well, do you "think" JM would have reported DeOrr missing if their hadn't been 3 other people there? I have no idea, I only know I saw a glaring (to me) similarity. Of course every case is different. Hell, they even live in different states. I don't get the point of your post.

Wasn't it reported by Klein that the first 911 call came from GGP phone? I'm all over the place with this case. I feel like JM is a total cold fish & that this whole situation has been significantly accelerated by her. Whether accidental or neglectful or maliciously, I feel in my gut that she took a mess & masterminded a disaster. JMO

 

[desert-blue]

In any scenario the blanket really gets to me and I have a hard time moving past it. It's one of the biggest factors for me to sway to a non accident. How cruel and selfish could you be to deny your child their most loved security item?

If they buried him, I cannot believe they wouldn't have wrapped him in his blanket. That is awful to even write... Is it possible he had two blankets and that's why VDK was getting his words all tangled up when he spoke about the blanket? I'm hoping that DeOrr does have one of his blankets with him, wherever he is. :-(

 

[Beezneez]

Well, when you put it that way.... (lol) (I was expecting the answer to be "because she isn't innocent"... but this works too... )

Have I mentioned that I do not like these people? Or anyone who isn't totally protective of the kids around them.

 

[kshultz06082]

https://www.idcourts.us/repository/...ence=11059&displayName=Walton,+Robert+Clinton

--he got a speeding ticket July 31, 2015

--his year of birth listed on the Idaho Repository is 1939, making him 76 the year Deorr "went disappeared".

Just to be sure, isn't his last name Walton, not Clinton? It looks like that is the last name used in the search...