ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - # 25

[Mickshawn]

I wonder if there's any way the vehicles' mileage that weekend could have been known from Odometer readings? I realize...a lonnnnnnnnng shot, but just thought I'd ask.

 

[Tr.]

I know all of us have come into following this case at different times so we are at different points of sleuthing. That being said I can't bother with trying to piece together timelines or what happened based upon what the parents have put out there. It's like trying to solve a crossword puzzle but you only have the blank word grid and no questions.

And by design no less. Reading these players is a test in deciphering. But matching words to actions in this case is like a jigsaw puzzle w lots of missing pieces.

 

[Tr.]

I wonder if there's any way the vehicles' mileage that weekend could have been known from Odometer readings? I realize...a lonnnnnnnnng shot, but just thought I'd ask.

Good point. Another thing LE could look at is how much fuel was purchased and calculate traveled miles from there.

 

[Lillahazel]

Well, that certainly cleared things right up.

I added it to the weirdness pile I have collected from this case. I have to say that if information wasn't delivered about this case in a weird way I'd question the authenticity of it


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[Tr.]

I agree and am hoping this is the case.

The other thing that has changed this time around is LE is coming at it from a totally different angle. The early searches were most likely focused with the theory that the boy could have walked off or an animal took the boy and dragged him away. So the searching would have focused on spots where an animal could wander away.

But this time around I think LE is going to assume a vehicle could have been used to transmit the boy's body. So I think their searching will include places farther away that a vehicle could reach.

I would not be surprised if LE has different groups searching in different areas and some groups may be much further away than the campground area than we think.

It may be time to get out the Google maps and think like a criminal and put some Xs on the map.

If you had a very limited time to hide the boy and your starting point was the campground then where would you drive to ?

Your time limit would be limited to a store run into town. It could be more time if you got up earlier than everyone else and managed to leave the campground while everyone was sleeping.

Would you stay within 5 miles? 10 miles? Even further?

:goodpost: sounds like you've caught a scent...go get 'em !!

Oh how I wish they would release the cell phone info.

 

[SubtleGrace]

I just wanted to jump in and say I find it very unusual that IR, as far as we know, is still a POI, but after a couple of interviews, no longer needs an attorney. I don't have the link, but it was just said recently. He claims he saw the baby when his parents got back from the store around one on Friday, but many believe the baby was never there. I am also confused by the 2 different stories that he was with GGP when they were supposed to be watching the baby, but I swear I also heard him say he was down by the water not far from the parents. These are a few things bouncing around in my mind, especially him not needing an attorney anymore? Say what? Why?

If he made a proffer, meaning exchanging information for immunity, he wouldn't need a lawyer anymore.

 

[Beezneez]

Do we know which direction DK hauled off too? There is an unnamed road that runs along side the reservoir and dead ends a few miles out. It looks like there is a tree line between the bank and the road, so my thoughts about DK driving through the shallow bank of the reservoir to get to the road is probably not valid, but it might explain the scent trail stopping there.
I'd like to know where that 3 mile search radius was centered. It would make sense to say it was at the campground. There is just so much more dense forest it would be impossible to know where to begin!

 

[ClaireNC]

BTW I am still confused about these stops Thursday night and Friday Morning. Does anybody happen to know of a good map showing routes and places they stopped those two times. I'm all turned around.

I thought they came up one way and spent the night then went into town the other way.

Thanks for any help or a link to a decent map showing where they were, went.

Here is a link to BYO's map of the case that is posted in the Media thread. https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zW6CBVbxpdYA.klXz-SrbHNBI It has several locations marked that were relevant to the case at some point in the last 8 months. We don't know where they stopped for diesel/fuel/gas on Thursday or where their starting point was in Idaho Falls. Somebody local mentioned early on that the only practical way to get to the campground from Idaho would be to go up Rt 28, through Leadore and then down SR 105/Swan Basin Rd to the campground. (While it looks like there is another route on the maps, there is one part of the road that is not passable.)

The Stage Stop is marked on the map, the Silver Dollar is near it. To go back into town from the campground, they would have most likely taken the same SR 105/Swan Basin Rd. I hope that helps.

 

[ClaireNC]

Do we know which direction DK hauled off too? There is an unnamed road that runs along side the reservoir and dead ends a few miles out. It looks like there is a tree line between the bank and the road, so my thoughts about DK driving through the shallow bank of the reservoir to get to the road is probably not valid, but it might explain the scent trail stopping there.
I'd like to know where that 3 mile search radius was centered. It would make sense to say it was at the campground. There is just so much more dense forest it would be impossible to know where to begin!

Keep in mind when looking at the maps that the campground is on a mountain. What looks like an area that one could possibly drive through on a flat map, might have a cliff/mountain ledge that makes it impassible.

From the long interview with the parents I think we always assumed that he went hauling out through the entrance to the campground - back in the direction of town. He mentions in the interview that he had not been up near the reservoir until the day after Deorr went missing (or something along those lines). Of course, we now know that most of what he said in the interview was fabricated, so we don't really know if he hauled anywhere to make the call.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If he made a proffer, meaning exchanging information for immunity, he wouldn't need a lawyer anymore.

Proffer or not. You always need a lawyer to sue just in case the agreement was not withheld. Jmo.

Because sometimes the government will renege on certain dealings. Idk

 

[Tr.]

Here is a link to BYO's map of the case that is posted in the Media thread. https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zW6CBVbxpdYA.klXz-SrbHNBI Somebody local mentioned early on that the only practical way to get to the campground from Idaho would be to go up Rt 28, through Leadore and then down SR 105/Swan Basin Rd to the campground. (While it looks like there is another route on the maps, there is one part of the road that is not passable.)

I don't see the non-passable road on the map in that link but i wonder if it's the unmarked road that cuts over East from 105 to Big timber Creek.
Looking at a satellite image on Google Maps there is a section that looks questionable though possibly navigable with a truck..hard to tell without seeing it first hand.

Thanks for that bit of info though. A route change there would add 25min to the allotted concealment time in my theory.

 

[Tr.]

Here is a link to BYO's map of the case that is posted in the Media thread. https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zW6CBVbxpdYA.klXz-SrbHNBI Somebody local mentioned early on that the only practical way to get to the campground from Idaho would be to go up Rt 28, through Leadore and then down SR 105/Swan Basin Rd to the campground. (While it looks like there is another route on the maps, there is one part of the road that is not passable.)

This also explains a double pass through Leadore on that day...very very interesting.:fireworks:

 

[ClaireNC]

I don't see the non-passable road on the map in that link but i wonder if it's the unmarked road that cuts over East from 105 to Big timber Creek.
Looking at a satellite image on Google Maps there is a section that looks questionable though possibly navigable with a truck..hard to tell without seeing it first hand.

Thanks for that bit of info though. A route change there would add 25min to the allotted concealment time in my theory.

I don't have time just now, but I'll look into it later and see if I can find which road was said to be impassible. It went over a creek or river, but there was no bridge. IIRC

 

[desert-blue]

I don't see the non-passable road on the map in that link but i wonder if it's the unmarked road that cuts over East from 105 to Big timber Creek.
Looking at a satellite image on Google Maps there is a section that looks questionable though possibly navigable with a truck..hard to tell without seeing it first hand.

Thanks for that bit of info though. A route change there would add 25min to the allotted concealment time in my theory.

Coming from Idaho Falls, Google directions will tell you to turn west on NF 212 (Texas Creek Rd.) south of Leadore. However, if you go that way, you have to drive across Big Timber Creek, which could be problematic if there is too much water (and maybe even more difficult if you're hauling a camper). Other posters earlier in this forum indicated crossing that creek would not be possible (no bridge). So, it seems that they would not have gone that way, but rather drove to Leadore and taken Swan Basin Road, NF 105, and then NF 172.

 

[ClaireNC]

Coming from Idaho Falls, Google directions will tell you to turn west on NF 212 (Texas Creek Rd.) south of Leadore. However, if you go that way, you have to drive across Big Timber Creek, which could be problematic if there is too much water (and maybe even more difficult if you're hauling a camper). Other posters earlier in this forum indicated crossing that creek would not be possible (no bridge). So, it seems that they would not have gone that way, but rather drove to Leadore and taken Swan Basin Road, NF 105, and then NF 172.

Thank you desert-blue! That is the route I was referring to in my earlier post as being impassible.

 

[Trident]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up here in the past or not so I thought I would share. SB responded to a question about IR on the Lemhi FB page on 1/28.

Question:
I have heard that there was a mistake on Isaac Reinwand's police records and he was never charged with a certain crime at all. Could you please confirm publically if this is true, because a lot of people have made wild speculations about his involvement in the DeOrr Kunz disappearance and have judged Mr. Reinwand very harshly due to this past charge.

SB's response:
Lemhi County Sheriff's Office You see certain things on his rap sheet, however, I have not been able to confirm they are true. Not sure what is going on here. Where it shows he was arrested, I read, in the report, where he was a witness. Very confusing, in the least......Sheriff Bowerman

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice/?ref=ts&fref=ts



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So, IR was possibly a witness once and maybe a witness now? Seems he spends a lot of time in the wrong place.

:cow:

 

[desert-blue]

If they were not familiar with the area and were looking for a place to bury DeOrr ( ), I'd think they would not want to go too far off the road they came in on, for fear of getting lost... I also think they would look for an area with lots of trees (less conspicuous), most likely near a creek/stream (and the ground is softer there as well). From looking at the maps and satellite imagery, I doubt that they went more than 3 miles from the campsite. There aren't that many roads and if you head towards Leadore, it turns into open sagebrush/desert very quickly. It's creepy thinking about trying to figure out where to bury a body... hopefully LE/FBI have some areas in mind.

ETA: The above post refers to the scenario of them burying him in conjunction with the trip to the store.....it could be that he is buried in the vicinity of the campground somewhere.... which I think is still also a possibility, given Klein's statements about where they plan to search.

 

[desert-blue]

About the stop at the Silver Dollar. I wonder if the stop was made as they drove through Leadore on their way to the campground, or if they had already gone to the campground and then drove back into town? The way I see it is that if it was on their way to the campground, they would have had two vehicles and GGPA's camper all parked outside the SD. I wonder if maybe they left DeOrr in the camper (less visible to folks) while they were in the SD? Maybe he was asleep and then woke up and got into something?

On the other hand, if they had already gone to the campground, it seems like they would probably all go back into town in one vehicle, for example, maybe in GGPA's Suburban. If that's the case, it would be hard for IR or GGPA to not notice whether DeOrr was with them or not, and you'd think they would have vivid memories of the trip (a bumpy road with a toddler). However, maybe they didn't all go to the SD, perhaps one or two of them stayed at the campground.

No point, I guess, other than I wish we knew who all went to the SD and how long they stayed, etc.

 

[sirensong]

If he made a proffer, meaning exchanging information for immunity, he wouldn't need a lawyer anymore.

That's what I was a getting at. I wondered if LE would put pressure on JM and VDK by making it look like IR was totally cleared. I have a feeling the others were trying to throw him under the bus, and he may have tried to cover for them until GGP had not been his friend anymore over the winter.

 

[Hatfield]

I would think that they would stay on the back roads and not get on the highway (for fear of being seen and/or being caught on a webcam or surveillance cam, etc.). Since they knew they had to visit the store to get a receipt, I think they would head out of the campground towards town, and then take a side road somewhere. I would think they would go at least 3 to 5 miles, but probably not 10, since the road conditions probably weren't all that great (slow going). I would think they might head towards more forested areas rather than the open sagebrush. JMO. I'm going to go look at some maps/imagery.

I agree and that would be my thinking as well.

The area is wooded so there would be good spots not too far away but they would want to get far enough away to where he wasn't found by searching in the area around the campground.

So I am thinking he is about 3 -5 miles away.

I too want to take a day and look at some maps. I don't have time today but I will have to check the maps out someday soon.