ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[Gibbs]

A couple of thoughts:

1. I asked much earlier and was told IR is mentally competent and suggestions otherwise are rumor. Has information come forward in the past week to the contrary?

2. Suing if innocent: I wouldn't care to waste my time or money suing Klein/LE if my son was missing and I thought he was abducted. I'd want to devote my attention and money to finding him.

3. As many of you have pointed out, they do not refer to their child by name which is a HUGE sign. It's an emotional disconnect...a way to distance themselves from him and what happened.

 

[Tr.]

IMO, Klein wasn't very clear about the trips to the store. He said VDK made two transactions but he didn't say if they were during the same trip or two different trips.

He wasn't specific on that..but it stands to reason that if we were talking about one trip w/ two transactions then Klein may have found himself interviewing some of the same people twice.
Klein says his investigators went back and found the customers before and after VDK on each occasion to verify facts.
I agree it's impossible to be sure without clarification of time and date.

 

[kammiemc]

Not real clear they were drinking then. So I'm guessing it's another rumor?

Not clear at all if anyone had a drink or not. It is just a possibility and I think a reasonable one to ponder since they stopped at a bar/restaurant/casino, where people eat, drink alcohol and gamble. If they stopped at a church it would be a possibility that someone prayed. If they stopped at a hair salon it would be a possibility that someone got their hair cut. IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kammiemc]

He wasn't specific on that..but it stands to reason that if we were talking about one trip w/ two transactions then Klein may have found himself interviewing some of the same people twice.
Klein says his investigators went back and found the customers before and after VDK on each occasion to verify facts.
I agree it's impossible to be sure without clarification of time and date.

It's at 3:20 on that link of Klein's interview with Chelsea that I posted above. He said the "real bombshell" was that they found "he didn't just come in and purchase once, he came in and purchased twice". Then he talks about how he tracked down people who were ahead of him and behind him both times.
Because he called it a bombshell I am thinking he walked into the store two separate times. But during the same time frame? Even same day? I guess all we know from the interview is that neither time was DeOrr with him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

IF we assume that JM was posting as herself on social media, then she absolutely and very specifically threw IR under the bus and said some very negative things about SB as well pretty early on.

Speaking of the rumor about the blood on the truck, do we even know if it was the SAME truck they had with them at the campsite? Wasn't it a new truck he just bought and has since sold? Or did he sell the old truck after he bought the new truck? Do we even know which truck they had at the campsite for sure? As far as I know, the blood on the truck information only came from a FB post by a family member because I remember thinking "We wouldn't have even known about that if the family member hadn't posted it!"

 

[desert-blue]

It's at 3:20 on that link of Klein's interview with Chelsea that I posted above. He said the "real bombshell" was that they found "he didn't just come in and purchase once, he came in and purchased twice". Then he talks about how he tracked down people who were ahead of him and behind him both times.
Because he called it a bombshell I am thinking he walked into the store two separate times. But during the same time frame? Even same day? I guess all we know from the interview is that neither time was DeOrr with him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe they forgot the feminine products the first time and had to go back in and get them?

 

[desert-blue]

Not clear at all if anyone had a drink or not. It is just a possibility and I think a reasonable one to ponder since they stopped at a bar/restaurant/casino, where people eat, drink alcohol and gamble. If they stopped at a church it would be a possibility that someone prayed. If they stopped at a hair salon it would be a possibility that someone got their hair cut. IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not only that (I totally agree with you), but I think people are trying to find a way to make sense of how parents could be involved in their own child's disappearance and possible death. Being under the influence of something might cause a person to react and do things that he/she wouldn't normally do. Just a thought... MOO

 

[Hoosier952]

Question. Should the family (at this point) sue Klein if they are truly innocent?

And if they don't sue; Does this means that they are guilty and keeping hush?

Hmmm, I could go either way. If they sue, all of this case will come out in court and that would be bad if they were guilty. But if they are innocent, filing a lawsuit (I assume they'd be asking for financial compensation) would ruffle some feathers, especially from those who believe Deorr's disappearance was financially driven.

IMO, a lawsuit isn't going to undo any damage that's been done. What would it accomplish?

I can't believe an innocent parent would care enough about what's being said to file a lawsuit. I'd be too heartbroken about my missing child to deal with a lawsuit. The fact that a lawsuit was even brought up just makes me that much more convinced they are guilty and way too worried about themselves, not their missing child. It's just another thing in this case that doesn't sit right with me. I'm sure others will see it differently.

 

[kammiemc]

"We" don't know "for certain" what IR and GGP have told LE....Maybe the original plan was to bring DeOrr on the trip...but maybe he never showed up, for some reason. Didn't Klein say the last verified sighting of him was Thursday at 6 p.m.? That could have been anywhere.

It's kind of wild, but in that last Chelsea interview with Klein, he says that GGP says he believes there was an accident but won't tell the whole story. So both ggp and IR might be more forthcoming than we imagine. I wouldn't be shocked if DeOrr never made it to the campsite trip alive. But I tend to think he was probably up there at some point alive only because Klein talks about the "incident" and someone claims to have seen him (besides the four campers) at 6 PM Thurs. But nothing would totally surprise me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tr.]

It almost suggests that he may be covering for something JM may have orchestrated. But I tend to not go for overly elaborate scenarios or selling children because I cannot possibly imagine how that could happen without his involvement. Regardless, his language here is suggestive imo

Sure does sound suggestive and fits nicely with his other remarks about no accident occurring to his knowledge. He's laying the ground work for a future defense if one is needed.. imo.
I take JM's remarks that followed as suggestive as well. "IF he is deceased then we still need to know what happened". I say this because I'm speculating that the remains will hold evidence to cod.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Question. Should the family (at this point) sue Klein if they are truly innocent?

And if they don't sue; Does this means that they are guilty and keeping hush?

I feel like it would be too much of a hassle. Would they have to prove their innocence? Would they have to show that they lost wages over Klein's claims? How much money could Klein have for them to win in a lawsuit? If they lose, they have to pay back his legal fees. I do not agree at all with "If they don't sue, they are guilty". They can't win.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Hmmm, I could go either way. If they sue, all of this case will come out in court and that would be bad if they were guilty. But if they are innocent, filing a lawsuit (I assume they'd be asking for financial compensation) would ruffle some feathers, especially from those who believe Deorr's disappearance was financially driven.

IMO, a lawsuit isn't going to undo any damage that's been done. What would it accomplish?

I can't believe an innocent parent would care enough about what's being said to file a lawsuit. I'd be too heartbroken about my missing child to deal with a lawsuit. The fact that a lawsuit was even brought up just makes me that much more convinced they are guilty and way too worried about themselves, not their missing child. It's just another thing in this case that doesn't sit right with me. I'm sure others will see it differently.

So if they sue Klein, that means they are more concerned with getting $$ than finding their son. If they don't sue, it means they are guilty and can't prove their innocence in court. I think the parents know what happened to Deorr but is there any scenario in this hypothetical lawsuit where people wouldn't try to make their decision fit in why the parents did it?

 

[kammiemc]

Hmmm, I could go either way. If they sue, all of this case will come out in court and that would be bad if they were guilty. But if they are innocent, filing a lawsuit (I assume they'd be asking for financial compensation) would ruffle some feathers, especially from those who believe Deorr's disappearance was financially driven.

IMO, a lawsuit isn't going to undo any damage that's been done. What would it accomplish?

I can't believe an innocent parent would care enough about what's being said to file a lawsuit. I'd be too heartbroken about my missing child to deal with a lawsuit. The fact that a lawsuit was even brought up just makes me that much more convinced they are guilty and way too worried about themselves, not their missing child. It's just another thing in this case that doesn't sit right with me. I'm sure others will see it differently.

I agree, and shouldn't they be suing the sheriff's office as well, since he also has said publicly that they are lying and know where their son is--and he named them the suspects! I wonder why only Klein gets the harassment. Maybe because the lawyer assumed (at least this is what he said) that VDK paid Klein a lot of money and that Klein worked for VDK. I am sure loads of people sorted out the lawyer on that one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kammiemc]

Imo. If the search dogs didn't keep coming back to mom; Then those search dogs are not worth much at all. Jmo.

She handles his clothes and belongings on a daily basis. So her scent would have been on all search items that she handed over that day or so.

Also. The freshest scent would be in the car. So if dogs are searching by scent. They would go straight to mom or car or dad.

Jmo

Would they remove mom and dad so that they wouldn't distract the dogs? I don't know enough about how it works, but you would think the parents would have baby smells all over them head to toe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tr.]

This question is acceptable to me. [emoji6]
I'm still leaning accident with negligence or death due to discipline, maybe potty training related (I did not get the good feels from the "filthy" or "bawling" descriptors) but I definitely got the feeling that they do not feel they share equal blame in whatever happened.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same here..I get the sense JM feels less responsible..she seems far less on edge in the interviews than VDK.
i think they sent some clear messages to one another in the last interview.ie;

VDK to JM - You could be held responsible just like anyone else.
JM to VDK - If they find him they will know what really happened and you won't be able to lie your way out of it.

 

[cantkeepquietanymore]

I guess my thing is I realized it would be impossible to even begin to wrap my brain around any of this unless if I narrowed down my source. Too many PI saying what they think...and public opinions that I've decided to just base what my facts are off of SB because some of what Klein says goes against what SB says and I felt like I kinda had to pick or nothing would add up. I went with SB because he seems to be the most genuine and cautious. And most of all professional. I'm a firm believer that things get to messy and misconstrued when too many people get involved.

Now sinse SB has come out saying they are being less then truthful and know where DeOrr is. And of course that their story's have changed.....I beleive he had good reasons for this.
Either A)he was stumped and did it to see if they would crack because he was at a dead end.
Or B) he truly beleives they know where he is and what happen.
SB has made comments that support A&B.

If SB thinks they do know what happen to DeOrr then after reading all his interviews over and over I feel like something really did happen after the trip to the store because I don't feel like IR would lie for JM or VDK.

I will say I understand how or why you or others might beleive that IR could easily be mislead. But I don't think he could be that mislead that easily. But it's a touchy subject so I just leave it be.

What I can't figure out is what in the world could of happen after the trip to the store. Or at all really that would need to be covered up other then murder and I don't think murder is what happen here.

One horrible thought is that ggp accidentally hit him with the ax. I could totally see how this could happen. I grew up with a wood stove that heated our house. Spilting wood is harder then it looks. An ax swings harder then you would realize and can be hard to stop once your in mid swing. Ggp was getting older. Maybe he was weaker then he realized as well. It was said that an ax and overalls where taken into evidence. But there is a lot that debunks this idea. But it supports why IR would have a reason to make a statment that support the parents or cover in anyway.

Or I've thought maybe they all just got completely bombed and passed out and DeOrr took off. Them waking up had no clue how long he'd been gone. They looked and lied because they new they'd be in trouble for neglect and not calling 911 soon enough leading to DeOrr being out side of the search area. And parents being less then truthful. But again there's is a lot to debunk this.

There's so many other ideas I had I could go on and on but mostly there is always something that makes me feel it isn't the case.

But through out all this it's always in the back of my brain what if what is simple is true in this case and the simple answer to all this might be DeOrr wondered off. Leading JM amd VDK to know what happen and where he is.

I just don't think they had any of this planned out or that DeOrr was hurt prior to the camping trip. I don't think they have done anything publicly that has raised red flags for me. And I keep thinking one of them would of cracked by now. All just imo.

Sorry my post goes on and on. Today has been my first day in over a two months to actually lay in bed, drink coffe, while my son is with his grandma, and I don't have to work. Lol I'm enjoying this.




Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

Lay in bed and drink coffee, reviewing all these posts ....that sounds like heaven!! Hope you thoroughly enjoyed it 😆

....and I also agree with alot of the rest.

 

[gliving]

"We" don't know "for certain" what IR and GGP have told LE....Maybe the original plan was to bring DeOrr on the trip...but maybe he never showed up, for some reason. Didn't Klein say the last verified sighting of him was Thursday at 6 p.m.? That could have been anywhere.

Not sure about Klein. Bowerman goes so far as to say he can't place Deorr at the campground with complete confidence.

"Eaton: Do you think an actual crime occurred there at the campsite?

Bowerman: I don’t know.

Eaton: But we do know DeOrr was up there?

Bowerman: I’m fairly confident DeOrr was there. I can’t find anybody that says they’re 100 percent positive he was there, but I feel fairly confident he was there at one time."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

 

[giagreen]

Lay in bed and drink coffee, reviewing all these posts ....that sounds like heaven!! Hope you thoroughly enjoyed it 😆

....and I also agree with alot of the rest.

Oh man......I sure did. Lol
I'm the kind of mom who works 50 hrs a week
While basically being a single mother considering the man in this home is gone for 2-3 weeks at a time.
I try to read at night while my son falls asleep but then I always pass out. Lol

Today has been great and well deserved. I love ws and real life has taken that from me these past few weeks.
I got half a day left tomorrow so I'll be here with my coffee in the AM...lol

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

 

[giagreen]

Not sure about Klein. Bowerman goes so far as to say he can't place Deorr at the campground with complete confidence.

"Eaton: Do you think an actual crime occurred there at the campsite?

Bowerman: I don’t know.

Eaton: But we do know DeOrr was up there?

Bowerman: I’m fairly confident DeOrr was there. I can’t find anybody that says they’re 100 percent positive he was there, but I feel fairly confident he was there at one time."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

So he must not beleive IR then for whatever reasons.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

 

[giagreen]

Not sure about Klein. Bowerman goes so far as to say he can't place Deorr at the campground with complete confidence.

"Eaton: Do you think an actual crime occurred there at the campsite?

Bowerman: I don’t know.

Eaton: But we do know DeOrr was up there?

Bowerman: I’m fairly confident DeOrr was there. I can’t find anybody that says they’re 100 percent positive he was there, but I feel fairly confident he was there at one time."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

The thing is that I beleive when Klein made that statment was before he had talked with IR. He hasn't seemed to of said much sinse speaking with him so I wonder if that has changed at all.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk