ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm sorry but there is a lot of confusion with the double jeopardy law. I will use Baby Kate case as an example. Her father was charged with secret confinement , found guilty and now he is awaiting trial for her murder because evidence came to light after.
Double jeopardy is the same charge not any charge pertaining to.
If you are charged with murder , kidnapping , theft etc and are found innocent and then evidence comes to light that you in fact did it .... You will get away with it , but that is the only way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
To clarify, I am in agreement with the majority of what you have been saying. When it comes to obstruction and lying to police, however, I am under the impression that it is a completely separate issue and does not apply to double jeopardy. Would be nice for a legal expert to weigh in on this. Are there any verified lawyers on WS?

There are several verified attorneys here but I can't remember who they are at the moment. The double jeopardy issue is a rather confusing topic for me. I'm not sure if this will help or not but I'll post the link anyway for those who are interested. I'm not sure I know much more now than before I read it, lol.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/double-jeopardy-what-constitutes-the-same-offense.html
 
After reading up a little, maybe Probable Cause could be the issue, as to why LE doesn't want to arrest on lesser charges when someone is suspected of murder.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/when-is-an-arrest-a-legal-arrest.html

While probable cause needs to be established before an arrest by the police officer, probable cause can be determined after the fact by a judge. This means that an officer could have in good faith thought he or she had probable cause, but a judge can later determine that there was in fact no probable cause. If this occurs, evidence acquired without probable cause becomes inadmissible in court.
 
For me this is just more proof of Klein's absolute lack of professionalism. If he in fact was working with LE on this case, which I serious doubt he is, he would never release a report like this until the case was closed. Klein basically took 5-6 pages to really say nothing, again.


He starts out saying he didn't want the case, but really he wanted the $20,000. The same thing he is doing on the baby Ember case in N. CA. Klein then points out an exact amount of money he doesn't know what happened to, inferring something nefarious was going on. He doesn't even know how old DeOrr was, Klein said the was three but I think all of agree he was only two. Klein states he was "allegedly" fathered by DVK. Again an undisputed fact the DVK is DeOrr's father.

Klein claims to be the "lead civil" investigator but yet he keeps speaking as though he has some ability to determine criminal responsibility (if there is any). He then goes on to say exactly where the search were and what was or was not found. Do you think for a moment LE would want those sites made public if they had planned on further searches?

On to the search of DVK & JM house. Klein adds so much unnecessary information here to such as they were evicted for failing to pay rent. Then Klein adds the information that the evidence actually wasn't found in the house but the dumpster the landlord used. How long was the dumpster there? Was it secure in any way? Who had access to it? As the mother of boys and the grandmother of boys I know there was no way I could have kept track of all the little "matchbook" type cars my boys had. The camo jacket, again another non started. I would often hang on to things my boys grew out of to either pass down to one of the younger boys or to give away. It's interesting to note that Klein didn't say what size it was. If it really had significance to the investigation, why didn't Klein make it clear what size it was. The credit card and the insurance tracker? Just more side shows of Klein's. A friend makes purchases on his/her credit card and Klein thinks it related to the investigation?

He then does a huge cheer for Team Klein, reminding us all, just in case we missed in all the other sideshows, how amazing Klein really is. Then he goes on to state he is investigation two FB page admins for, get this, releasing information! And then there is the threat. Don't post anything negative about KIC. If you do you are being misled and may need to consider your actions.

I get that many of you believe the parents/family are responsible for DeOrr's disappearance/death but please take the time to read between the lines of Klein's statements. In my career I have read thousands of police reports and investigative reports from a simple burglary to first degree murder and never in over 20 years have a seen a report like this from a professional investigator.

I don't know what happened up there but I'm not ready to say the parents murdered DeOrr. I can't say they didn't, but nothing so far has definitely shown me they did. I believe DeOrr was up there, IR states he saw him Friday after they came back from Leadore. Just because IR isn't talking to Klein does not mean his statements should be discounted.

And one last point. The FBI is not going to release any of their findings to Klein. They are never going to give him information on this case. That is not how the FBI works.

All of you are entitled to your opinions and theories about what happened to DeOrr but remember I am too entitled to mine. Please be respectful of that.

Butler, I agree 100% with your assessment of Klein and said so when he burst into this case. I have zero respect for the man because you just do not attempt to make money and/or notoriety off of a missing child's case. I do totally respect your opinion and hope people will respect mine.

I do not for one moment believe that LE and the FBI have taken Klein into their respective confidences. You are correct in that it is just not how these agencies work. In fact, IF any of this 'new evidence' was real, Klein devalued it because there is no chain of evidence established. IMO, if Klein were a professional investigator, he would know all of this but no matter how hard he tries to sound professional, he just cannot pull it off.

There are a couple of professions LE doesn't care for and that is reporters who over sensationalize, and Private Investigators who wish they were or could be LE. The real and professional Private Investigators keep their information private and to themselves until they have something concrete they can actually prove. IMO, Klein continually dangles pieces of information to the public in hopes more money will be given to him.

I do believe the truth about little DeOrr's disappearance will come out sooner or later and without Klein's help. This little guy deserves justice.

I do believe little DeOrr's parents know what happened to him and where he is.

This is my honest opinion.

MOO, JMO, and IMO!
 
Wasn't there a small trace of blood found on the back tire? A minimal amount, I wonder if I can find the reference.
 
Wasn't there a small trace of blood found on the back tire? A minimal amount, I wonder if I can find the reference.

In the latest interview Tricia did with Sheriff B, he said there was some fluid found on Vernals truck, but they weren't able to get DNA from it. Not able to post link but it's a few posts back. It's at the very end of the interview.
 
I take it people aren't his statement that LE was there during the 5 day operation as fact, but I can't see him possibly risking his license or worse. Klein wants this case solved as much as everyone, I can't see him doing anything to jeopardize any chain of evidence.

During the five day operation, law enforcement agents from both Lemhi and Bonneville Counties were represented.

During the five day operation the following objectives were met :


  • Time distance study to fully verify or disprove Vernal Kunz’s timeline.
  • Time distance study to fully verify or disprove Jessica Mitchell Anderson’s timeline.
  • Cell Phone Impact and Signal Study of known directional “pings” in investigators possession.
  • Site location study to verify or disprove the testimony by witnesses to KIC and Law Enforcement.
  • Dog Search – to verify or disprove the testimony to KIC and Law Enforcement.
  • A secondary dog search in the city of Idaho Falls, ID, at two locations.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07...orr-kunz-case/
 
For me this is just more proof of Klein's absolute lack of professionalism. If he in fact was working with LE on this case, which I serious doubt he is, he would never release a report like this until the case was closed. Klein basically took 5-6 pages to really say nothing, again.


He starts out saying he didn't want the case, but really he wanted the $20,000. The same thing he is doing on the baby Ember case in N. CA. Klein then points out an exact amount of money he doesn't know what happened to, inferring something nefarious was going on. He doesn't even know how old DeOrr was, Klein said the was three but I think all of agree he was only two. Klein states he was "allegedly" fathered by DVK. Again an undisputed fact the DVK is DeOrr's father.

Klein claims to be the "lead civil" investigator but yet he keeps speaking as though he has some ability to determine criminal responsibility (if there is any). He then goes on to say exactly where the search were and what was or was not found. Do you think for a moment LE would want those sites made public if they had planned on further searches?

On to the search of DVK & JM house. Klein adds so much unnecessary information here to such as they were evicted for failing to pay rent. Then Klein adds the information that the evidence actually wasn't found in the house but the dumpster the landlord used. How long was the dumpster there? Was it secure in any way? Who had access to it? As the mother of boys and the grandmother of boys I know there was no way I could have kept track of all the little "matchbook" type cars my boys had. The camo jacket, again another non started. I would often hang on to things my boys grew out of to either pass down to one of the younger boys or to give away. It's interesting to note that Klein didn't say what size it was. If it really had significance to the investigation, why didn't Klein make it clear what size it was. The credit card and the insurance tracker? Just more side shows of Klein's. A friend makes purchases on his/her credit card and Klein thinks it related to the investigation?

He then does a huge cheer for Team Klein, reminding us all, just in case we missed in all the other sideshows, how amazing Klein really is. Then he goes on to state he is investigation two FB page admins for, get this, releasing information! And then there is the threat. Don't post anything negative about KIC. If you do you are being misled and may need to consider your actions.

I get that many of you believe the parents/family are responsible for DeOrr's disappearance/death but please take the time to read between the lines of Klein's statements. In my career I have read thousands of police reports and investigative reports from a simple burglary to first degree murder and never in over 20 years have a seen a report like this from a professional investigator.

I don't know what happened up there but I'm not ready to say the parents murdered DeOrr. I can't say they didn't, but nothing so far has definitely shown me they did. I believe DeOrr was up there, IR states he saw him Friday after they came back from Leadore. Just because IR isn't talking to Klein does not mean his statements should be discounted.

And one last point. The FBI is not going to release any of their findings to Klein. They are never going to give him information on this case. That is not how the FBI works.

All of you are entitled to your opinions and theories about what happened to DeOrr but remember I am too entitled to mine. Please be respectful of that.

Butler, I agree 100% with your assessment of Klein and said so when he burst into this case. I have zero respect for the man because you just do not attempt to make money and/or notoriety off of a missing child's case. I do totally respect your opinion and hope people will respect mine.

I do not for one moment believe that LE and the FBI have taken Klein into their respective confidences. You are correct in that it is just not how these agencies work. In fact, IF any of this 'new evidence' was real, Klein devalued it because there is no chain of evidence established. IMO, if Klein were a professional investigator, he would know all of this but no matter how hard he tries to sound professional, he just cannot pull it off.

There are a couple of professions LE doesn't care for and that is reporters who over sensationalize, and Private Investigators who wish they were or could be LE. The real and professional Private Investigators keep their information private and to themselves until they have something concrete they can actually prove. IMO, Klein continually dangles pieces of information to the public in hopes more money will be given to him.

I do believe the truth about little DeOrr's disappearance will come out sooner or later and without Klein's help. This little guy deserves justice.

I do believe little DeOrr's parents know what happened to him and where he is.

This is my honest opinion.

MOO, JMO, and IMO!

Hitting the thanks button wasn't enough. I agree with both of you 100%, especially about the cars and camo jacket. I also thought it was very telling that he didn't release the size. I personally buy my grandson (3 on 8/9/16) a few pieces of clothing, esp if Walmart has a clearance, my grandson has 2 each of green and gray camo shirts, jackets plus sweat pants, then one sweat shirt in each color. I'd say he has at least a thousand hot wheels cars.

I go back and forth between an accident or DeOrr was faster and is out there. If an accident, I also feel the parents know where he is

*Would love to reply in more detail but my grandson needs my help with his hot wheels track...
 
No. The prosecutors and the police took a gamble and they most likely lost. Once this trial begins they will never be able to charge the Moore's for murder. The gamble they made was that Sidney would crack while in jail for the kidnapping charge and help with the case against the murderer Tammy. No luck as Sidney held firm, as soon as that trial begins Tammy can start wearing Heather Elvis's bones in a necklace and never face murder charges.

Wow, I didn't know that, that really sucks IMO..unless youre the guilty party..UGH!
 
No. The prosecutors and the police took a gamble and they most likely lost. Once this trial begins they will never be able to charge the Moore's for murder. The gamble they made was that Sidney would crack while in jail for the kidnapping charge and help with the case against the murderer Tammy. No luck as Sidney held firm, as soon as that trial begins Tammy can start wearing Heather Elvis's bones in a necklace and never face murder charges.

Look at OJ Simpson too. Perfect example.
 
I take it people aren't his statement that LE was there during the 5 day operation as fact, but I can't see him possibly risking his license or worse. Klein wants this case solved as much as everyone, I can't see him doing anything to jeopardize any chain of evidence.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07...orr-kunz-case/

Bonneville County put out a statement that were NOT there for the search of the homes and only that they assisted Lemhi County in pointing out spots for Klein to search. The full article is here: http://www.kmvt.com/content/news/Pr...dlers-family-members-conducted-384196051.html
 
Another video snippet on Klein's FB . She said Clover Creek Motel when it doesn't exist in Leadore . According to Google, there is a Homestead Motel. She's either confused or lying, not sure why she'd make something like that up. :dunno: . Jmo
 
Further, in contradiction to Jessica's statement, the motel says the office is not at the motel, but down the road at Peterson Metal Products .

Which is where they got the red dye diesel.

(From the "about" section of their fb page: https://m.facebook.com/The-Homestead-Motel-493199287438359/)

Which makes the idea that they would pay for the diesel at the motel even more unusual.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Further, in contradiction to Jessica's statement, the motel says the office is not at the motel, but down the road at Peterson Metal Products .

Which is where they got the red dye diesel.

(From the "about" section of their fb page: https://m.facebook.com/The-Homestead-Motel-493199287438359/)

Which makes the idea that they would pay for the diesel at the motel even more unusual.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I think Mr. Peterson owns both the welding place and the motel. Does anyone remember VDK and JMA staying in a motel for the first few nights after DeOrr vanished? I think LE put them up in a motel in Leadore. VDK's sister stated on FB that VDK and JM needed some alone time to process... something like that.
 
Another video snippet on Klein's FB . She said Clover Creek Motel when it doesn't exist in Leadore . According to Google, there is a Homestead Motel. She's either confused or lying, not sure why she'd make something like that up. :dunno: . Jmo

or a slip like Vernal saying "Snake River" in the original Nate UNedited interview?
 
Bonneville County put out a statement that were NOT there for the search of the homes and only that they assisted Lemhi County in pointing out spots for Klein to search. The full article is here: http://www.kmvt.com/content/news/Pr...dlers-family-members-conducted-384196051.html

But they did assist / were involved, and fwiw in Klein's report they are listed as a "backing agency". IMHO, It wouldn't have been very gracious if Klein had not given them credit for their involvement.
 
or a slip like Vernal saying "Snake River" in the original Nate UNedited interview?

Makes one wonder if there's any significance, it's hard to say. I admit I keep thinking of Casey Anthony, Zanny the Nanny and Universal Studios.
 
But they did assist / were involved, and fwiw in Klein's report they are listed as a "backing agency". IMHO, It wouldn't have been very gracious if Klein had not given them credit for their involvement.

Bonneville County Sheriff's Office has issued a statement on their involvement with the recent searched for DeOrr Kunz Jr.On June 19, Bonneville County Sheriff's office assisted Lemhi County Sheriff's Office with the search by pointing out potential search locations in the Leadore area for the Klein Investigations team to continue with their investigation.
On June 22, 2016, Bonneville County Sheriff's office assisted in communicating with Trina Clegg and Klein Investigations who wanted to search the Clegg residence. The Sheriff’s Office did not assist Klein Investigations with the actual search and was not present at that time or for any other searches in the Idaho Falls area relating to this case.
The sheriff's office says any information that all other information and details on the case will be deferred to Lemhi County Sheriff's Office
.http://www.kmvt.com/content/news/Pr...dlers-family-members-conducted-384196051.html

BBM

I don't know how more clear Bonneville County SO could be on this. They were not there for the search.
 
Further, in contradiction to Jessica's statement, the motel says the office is not at the motel, but down the road at Peterson Metal Products .

Which is where they got the red dye diesel.

(From the "about" section of their fb page: https://m.facebook.com/The-Homestead-Motel-493199287438359/)

Which makes the idea that they would pay for the diesel at the motel even more unusual.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

You would have to know small town Idaho to see that it isn't all that unusual to have an arrangement like this. Especially if the same person owned both business. Leadore is a tiny little town, about 100 people in population.
 
You would have to know small town Idaho to see that it isn't all that unusual to have an arrangement like this. Especially if the same person owned both business. Leadore is a tiny little town, about 100 people in population.
I understand the same person owns bot businesses, and it makes sense to have one office at the metal company. But Jessica claimed in the video that the gas had to be paid for at the motel. If the motel office is at the metal company, why would they tell them it had to be paid at the motel? Unless I am just totally confused. Which happens often in this case!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
174
Guests online
1,977
Total visitors
2,151

Forum statistics

Threads
600,121
Messages
18,104,095
Members
230,991
Latest member
lyle.person1
Back
Top