ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

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turtlefur said:
It seems like they did have permission to make the memorial. However they (the park service people) received a large number of complaints about it from people. So they took it down.


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Wouldn't it be nice if they had a permanent memorial? Like a monument at a grave. Too bad the people responsible are too concerned with other things. Re-watching the 1 year update & SP is more emotional about the missing kid while JM/A/whatever is concerned with defending herself.
 
turtlefur said:
It seems like they did have permission to make the memorial. However they (the park service people) received a large number of complaints about it from people. So they took it down.


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the permission was given to them by officers Morelli and/or Penner. They did not have the authorization to do so. They aren't affiliated with the national park service.
 
Beezneez said:
Wouldn't it be nice if they had a permanent memorial? Like a monument at a grave. Too bad the people responsible are too concerned with other things. Re-watching the 1 year update & SP is more emotional about the missing kid while JM/A/whatever is concerned with defending herself.
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exactly!
 
rocket said:
the permission was given to them by officers Morelli and/or Penner. They did not have the authorization to do so. They aren't affiliated with the national park service.
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Timbercreek campground is not part of the National Park Service. It is under the control of the Forest Service or BLM. Very different rules for each.
 
Butler said:
Timbercreek campground is not part of the National Park Service. It is under the control of the Forest Service or BLM. Very different rules for each.
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Good to know, thanks. According to BLM.gov website (I searched for the word 'memorials'), I found this in relation to the scattering of cremations... "No markers or memorials may be left on site."

I know Deorr's was a different type of memorial (not involving cremains), but it wouldn't be a stretch to conclude that memorials of any kind are forbidden. IMO

http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/b...s/2011.Par.49646.File.dat/IM2011-159_att1.pdf

The National Park Service also adheres to the Leave No Trace principle. I cannot find anything on their site about private memorials.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd502862.pdf
 
Elle*Bee said:
Good to know, thanks. According to BLM.gov website (I searched for the word 'memorials'), I found this in relation to the scattering of cremations... "No markers or memorials may be left on site."

I know Deorr's was a different type of memorial (not involving cremains), it would be a stretch to conclude that memorials of any kind are forbidden. IMO

http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/b...s/2011.Par.49646.File.dat/IM2011-159_att1.pdf

The National Park Service also adheres to the Leave No Trace principle. I cannot find anything on their site about private memorials.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd502862.pdf
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I can't see how a memorial that obviously alters the natural native environment would be allowed. It clearly goes against the principles of the Forest Service's policy of Leave No Trace. Jmo
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/scnf/home/?cid=stelprdb5360033
https://lnt.org/learn/7-principles
 
neesaki said:
I can't see how a memorial that obviously alters the natural native environment would be allowed. It clearly goes against the principles of the Forest Service's policy of Leave No Trace. Jmo
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/scnf/home/?cid=stelprdb5360033
https://lnt.org/learn/7-principles
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Yes, that was my point, too. I have a short attention span and a wonky iPad so I had to post in pieces and keep adding to it. You quoted me before I finished. :giggle: (my post 785)
 
rocket said:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recreation/recarea/?recid=76050

timber creek campground
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The fact that there are two Timber Creek campgrounds has been a confusion as we've followed this case. The campground in the link above is on the other side of the mountain range, I believe.

As I was looking for the link at the same site for "our" campground, I remembered that it is so small compared to the others that it's not even listed. I'll find another link.
 
I guess it's time for me to go home since I just posted two non-facts. Sorry.
 
Not that I think that's what happened, but it would be feasible to drive from the campground to Montpelier to dispose of the body. 8 hours, let's say 9 to give time to dispose of body. If they left at 11pm Thursday night, they would be back by 8pm. So, IMO, definitely feasible.
 
I read a theory somewhere, maybe here, that I keep thinking about. It depends on a whole different set of circumstances than what we've been told.
The theory goes that GGPA and IR had "business" north of Idaho Falls, in the direction of Leadore. It was just supposed to be a day trip, not overnight. JMA and VK, and the baby, went with them to help out. Something happened and the baby ended up dead. GGPA and IR went on to the campground, and VDK and JMA went back to IF and got the camp trailer. They met the others at the campground. In the middle of the night, IR and VDK drove off to dispose of the body. VK and JMA made the trip to Leadore later in the morning to set up the story.
It's not my theory, so I don't know anything else about it. But I keep wondering if something like that is possible. Has anyone else read that theory?
 
I can't say I'm surprised the memorial got removed. Let's be honest, the blue spray painted rocks were an eyesore. They should have just brought that stump up there and called it good. I bet it would still be up there if that's all they did.

Below is an article about vandalism with spray paint in a national forest. What they did obviously was different from graffiti, but they still spray painted rocks. Not sure where the line is drawn.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2438614-155/rangers-cracking-down-on-rock-face-vandalism
 
I understand why the family wanted to have the memorial where DeOrr was last seen. (I firmly believe the grandmothers are innocent) Like someone else said (I think?) we see the same thing with flowers on poles for traffic accidents.

However there have been good points made that they didn't get permission from the right people.


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rocket said:
exactly!
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It would only be appropriate if in the end he was missing from this park and even then, I am not sure what the purpose would be memorializing him there. I highly doubt we are going to see some "act of God or nature" that is responsible for his death. Or even that baby Deorr's disappearance had anything to do with this campsite. If he were missing from a Grocery store parking lot, would that be a place for memorializing?

I think the ultimate memorializing will be when justice is served.
 
rocket said:
I guess it's time for me to go home since I just posted two non-facts. Sorry.
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Come now, no need to take it hard, we all make mistakes, and the two Timbercreek campgrounds is kind of strange anyway. And been a source of confusion since the beginning. Besides, I enjoy your posts, so, you can't go home. :D
 
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