ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

[Little Ol Me]

And Klein said no other diapers were found.

Mainly just wanted to use your comment concerning the diaper topic.

Thanks to those who responded.

I wasn't aware that PK addressed the diaper topic, must not have seen that.
I've followed this case from it's beginning and hadn't seen any official statements concerning any diapers the parents may have brought with them.
I am aware of TBC'S claims.
I know S.B was ask in 2 different radio programs about the ":tree diaper", or any others. I believe he stated he didn't know anything about that diaper, or others.

Frankly, I have doubts that LE even ask them about (or checked for) extra diapers during the first several days of this case. They were treating this as a missing child case.
Also I'm not sure PK can state for a fact anything about diapers found or not found during the camp trip. He wasn't involved then, wasn't there.
Neither do I believe that LE has shared any evidence with KIC.

 

[ReadySet]

ReadySet, I didn't see your post before I replied. I do think your scenarios are absolutely plausible. I wish we knew more about whether anyone else could possibly be involved in the cover-up.

I've never been able to get a handle on Bob and IR's involvement. I go back and forth. I just try to speculate my way through different scenarios. I suspect that there others in the family that, if not directly involved in the death and cover-up, are supporting the suspects by keeping their mouth shut about what they know.

As to how JMA and VK could have done this by themselves, I've learned that if you're really good at lying, and really good at keeping your mouth shut otherwise, and really good at hiding a body, you may get away with murder.
But, IMO, the party isn't over yet. I have a strong belief that the various LE agencies have this. It may still be a while, but I do believe there will be justice for baby Deorr.

 

[desert-blue]

Maybe Bob and Isaac drank all the whiskey and are just covering for themselves....

 

[kshultz06082]

If GGPa and IR are covering for the suspects, and I'm on the fence about that, I don't have a hard time understanding why.

Just speculation here:

Could TBC have said something like this to her father: You owe me! You know you do! Where would you be without me? And where will you be if I don't take care of you? You'll be out on your own, you know you can't take of yourself, and I'll make sure none of our family has anything to do with you! And remember, I never told about you.You owe me!

Could GGPa have said something like this to IR: I've been there for you. I'm your only friend! I'm the only one who hasn't deserted you! Who picked you up when you were down and out? Me! Who was there for you when you were sick, when you needed help, money, a friend? Me! Your family doesn't help you, you don't have any other friends. And remember, I never told about you. You owe me.

ETA: flagging my own post. Hard to keep track of what is allowed

I can agree with both of these scenarios, but I have a question. What do the "I never told about you" parts mean? What are they in reference to?

 

[desert-blue]

I find it interesting that in the very beginning, Sheriff Bowerman was very protective of great grandpa and even went so far as to say that he wasn't really even a POI and was definitely not a suspect (paraphrasing here). His identity wasn't released right away and I always thought it was very odd that that he never said one word. You'd think if it was just that baby DeOrr wandered off that it would be crucial to hear the words of the last person that supposedly saw him. I don't guess it means anything. I was just thinking back to the very beginning of this case.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Maybe Bob and Isaac drank all the whiskey and are just covering for themselves....

I think there's a possibility they were all smashed. Makes me go back to an earlier theory that someone reversed into DeOrr while drink driving, they put him to bed but woke up to find him dead. Maybe grandpa was driving, Vernal suggested leaving him til morning or drove to hide the body, still drunk , Isaac was completely out of it and kept it n the dark, and Jessica - covering for grandpa/vernal and scared about her other kids - agreed to whatever in her drunk/hungover state.

Not even sure I believe that theory but it would fit a few of the Things We Know.

 

[Butler]

And Klein said no other diapers were found.

How would Klein know? He never went to the campground until June of this year? SB made the statement they were well supplied for camping. Why is this even an issue?

 

[MsMarple]

I find it interesting that in the very beginning, Sheriff Bowerman was very protective of great grandpa and even went so far as to say that he wasn't really even a POI and was definitely not a suspect (paraphrasing here). His identity wasn't released right away and I always thought it was very odd that that he never said one word. You'd think if it was just that baby DeOrr wandered off that it would be crucial to hear the words of the last person that supposedly saw him. I don't guess it means anything. I was just thinking back to the very beginning of this case.

I'm with you on that! Maybe GGP simply told SB that he thought DeOrr went with VK and/or JMA and SB figured that was all he knew, end of statement. Early on it was still assumed little DeOrr got lost. Plus there may have been some assumptions on LE's part about GGP being elderly and infirm. I know as I age people treat me a little differently than when I was in my 20's - or heck, when I was in my 40's, lol!

What continues to be a stumbling block for me is the idea of all four people covering up a crime. It just doesn't make sense to me. At some point at least one of them should have broken down, especially after the parents were named suspects. Who wants to be part of that? Although I do think it's possible that GGP and IR were gaslighted. After watching Lonna Barton's behavior during interrogation (in Lonzie's case) I realize people, even those who aren't particularily bright, can lie smooth as silk. So I suppose it's possible that GGP and IR were convinced they saw/didn't see whatever the parents wanted. I dunno.

OTOH, I don't see the parents covering for GGP or IR so either mom and dad did something bad or we're all on the wrong page. One thing I am hoping for is that if a strong piece of evidence comes to light that scares the guilty party/parties enough then the cone of silence will start breaking down. As it stands, there's plenty of circumstantial evidence but not enough to bring charges - that we know of.

Anyway, just some random thoughts of my own, coming off of the good posts from y'all today. :seeya:

P.S. One last thought: If GGP adheres to the concept of family sticking together no matter what then it might take a stick of dynamite to get him to tell the truth about what he saw...

 

[Butler]

Mainly just wanted to use your comment concerning the diaper topic.

Thanks to those who responded.

I wasn't aware that PK addressed the diaper topic, must not have seen that.
I've followed this case from it's beginning and hadn't seen any official statements concerning any diapers the parents may have brought with them.
I am aware of TBC'S claims.
I know S.B was ask in 2 different radio programs about the ":tree diaper", or any others. I believe he stated he didn't know anything about that diaper, or others.

Frankly, I have doubts that LE even ask them about (or checked for) extra diapers during the first several days of this case. They were treating this as a missing child case.
Also I'm not sure PK can state for a fact anything about diapers found or not found during the camp trip. He wasn't involved then, wasn't there.
Neither do I believe that LE has shared any evidence with KIC.

Thank you. So many tiny little snippets of information on this case get blown out of proportion. These are the parents of a toddler, they would carry diapers. In the beginning LE was not searching for diapers, they were searching for a missing child. So many people came & went in the early days, stuff brought in to the site, stuff brought out of the site. How can people go from TBC stating she wanted to dispose of a diaper in a trash bag to the parents must have killed DeOrr because they didn't bring any diapers with them. Jumping from A to Z with no factual information in between.

And I agree with you, LE would not share evidence with Klein

 

[mommylicious]

This is starting to feel like the poison scene from Princess Bride.

"There's no proof DeOrr was ever at the campground. No one saw him in town. The dogs didn't hit on his scent. So I can clearly not choose the scenario in front of me..... But there was a dirty diaper in the tree and IR and RW both claim he was there. Why would they cover up? So I can clearly not choose the scenario in front of you..."

 

[boston5]

Thank you. So many tiny little snippets of information on this case get blown out of proportion. These are the parents of a toddler, they would carry diapers. In the beginning LE was not searching for diapers, they were searching for a missing child. So many people came & went in the early days, stuff brought in to the site, stuff brought out of the site. How can people go from TBC stating she wanted to dispose of a diaper in a trash bag to the parents must have killed DeOrr because they didn't bring any diapers with them. Jumping from A to Z with no factual information in between.
And I agree with you, LE would not share evidence with Klein

If it were just the diaper, than you would totally be correct. I think it's more of we have the whole alphabet and half of the Chinese alphabet, that's how some of us are at "z".

 

[turtlefur]

This is starting to feel like the poison scene from Princess Bride.

"There's no proof DeOrr was ever at the campground. No one saw him in town. The dogs didn't hit on his scent. So I can clearly not choose the scenario in front of me..... But there was a dirty diaper in the tree and IR and RW both claim he was there. Why would they cover up? So I can clearly not choose the scenario in front of you..."

Yup! Nailed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[persimmon]

I have a feeling now that Jessica has moved on that things will fall apart and the truth will slowly emerge. I've always felt she called the shots. Perhaps VK will gain some clarity in his new life.

I have to say that JM's marriage says so much about her lack of concern for DeOrr that I'm surprised her immediate family didn't explain that to her. Likewise, her recent phony pleas for his return on her FB page are pathetic. Clearly, she is experiencing all kinds of joy despite her two year old's "disappearance." I'm fairly certain it was a case of neglect on her part. She's far too selfish to cover for another person.

 

[KatieLiz]

I find it interesting that in the very beginning, Sheriff Bowerman was very protective of great grandpa and even went so far as to say that he wasn't really even a POI and was definitely not a suspect (paraphrasing here). His identity wasn't released right away and I always thought it was very odd that that he never said one word. You'd think if it was just that baby DeOrr wandered off that it would be crucial to hear the words of the last person that supposedly saw him. I don't guess it means anything. I was just thinking back to the very beginning of this case.

It is really interesting. I think we can take a lot of the early statements from LE with a grain of salt: like them protecting GGP and his identity. I think at the beginning LE truly believed that Deorr was missing. It wasn't for a little while when they began to catch on to the changing story lines, and then the polygraphs began. After that, it sure didn't seem like LE was trying to protect any of them anymore. I bet a lot of crucial things could have been missed at the beginning because LE wasn't suspicious then.

I have a feeling now that Jessica has moved on that things will fall apart and the truth will slowly emerge. I've always felt she called the shots. Perhaps VK will gain some clarity in his new life.

(SBM)
Funny how much things change over the course of the investigation. I remember after the first couple interviews how everyone thought VDK was so overbearing, always cutting her off and talking over her. When we thought differently of them, and thought here is poor Jessica trying to plead for her sons return and he keeps talking over her about stuff that really had nothing to do with anything. It's just interesting to me how much has changed over the course of the past year, because I've heard several people lately saying they think JM is the one running this show. I always just stuck with my original opinion that it was VDK in control of the narrative, but the more I hear people say this stuff about JM I begin to reevaluate things in my mind. But it was definitely VDK who arose my suspicion in the beginning.

 

[KayCherry]

I think there's a possibility they were all smashed. Makes me go back to an earlier theory that someone reversed into DeOrr while drink driving, they put him to bed but woke up to find him dead. Maybe grandpa was driving, Vernal suggested leaving him til morning or drove to hide the body, still drunk , Isaac was completely out of it and kept it n the dark, and Jessica - covering for grandpa/vernal and scared about her other kids - agreed to whatever in her drunk/hungover state.

Not even sure I believe that theory but it would fit a few of the Things We Know.

I agree with this~

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I think there's a possibility they were all smashed. Makes me go back to an earlier theory that someone reversed into DeOrr while drink driving, they put him to bed but woke up to find him dead. Maybe grandpa was driving, Vernal suggested leaving him til morning or drove to hide the body, still drunk , Isaac was completely out of it and kept it n the dark, and Jessica - covering for grandpa/vernal and scared about her other kids - agreed to whatever in her drunk/hungover state.

Not even sure I believe that theory but it would fit a few of the Things We Know.

The only part of this I strongly disagree with is Jessica having concern for her other kids. She doesn't care about those kids at all. She cares about herself and only herself.

 

[Donjeta]

Did they drive somewhere in the middle of the night (using up a lot of fuel) and dispose of him? So many possibilities. The fact that Jessica may have turned off her phone all night is a red flag to me. I'm leaning towards them doing something with his body in the middle of the night. However, that is a huge window of time and who knows where to start looking.

....

Many people might innocently turn off their phones on a camping trip though, because of bad reception and lack of facilities to recharge.

 

[desert-blue]

Many people might innocently turn off their phones on a camping trip though, because of bad reception and lack of facilities to recharge.

True - it could be totally innocent. But she is a suspect in her child's disappearance. Perhaps she turned it off to conceal her movements during the night. Who knows...

 

[persimmon]

Turning off your phone will not conceal your movements it still pings and law enforcement could still track you.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Turning off your phone will not conceal your movements it still pings and law enforcement could still track you.

If the phone is off, it doesn't ping, unfortunately. If it did, there are a lot of missing people who could be found sooner.