ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

[Inthedetails]

I'm starting to think DeOrr might have passed week(s) before the camping trip.

We have no "last known sighting," right? We have no idea when the little guy was last seen.

I think you might be right. I have been thinking something happened the day before the camping trip, but there is no reason to restrict it to that day.

I recall a WSer questioning from the start whether DeOrr was at the campground, and I thought that was a false path. I assumed he was there. Now....I don't assume that any more.

 

[ZooSleuth]

If the parent's have told so many different stories to LE, then why haven't they been charged with obstruction or lying to a police officer? Those would surely be "slam dunk" cases because all their interviews would have been recorded. People will sometimes break and tell the truth once they have been charged. There's no harm in trying.

The cousin of Jeffrey Willis, the serial killer in MI, changed his story in the same interview with police and was charged with a felony:
http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2016/06/jeffrey_willis_cousin_said_he.html

 

[ZooSleuth]

Why doesn't Klein show the clip where JMA says "she knows where the body/DeOrr's is". Isn't that what Klein claims she's said?
Oh, I guess that for the prosecution

That in particular is one of the things I really don't agree with Klein about. He asked her where she thought he was, and she said "I think he's still up on that mountain" (not verbatim) and then he took that and ran with it like she admitted to knowing where the body is. I could see an innocent person saying the exact same thing. I don't think she's innocent (at the very least she has knowledge of what happened), but that was a little ridiculous on Klein's part IMO. Maybe it went down differently, but until Klein releases the video I won't think anything of this.

 

[Lillahazel]

I'm starting to think DeOrr might have passed week(s) before the camping trip.

I agree. For some reason I have always felt the 4th of July played a part.

 

[Dee10]

If Klein were making up outlandish tales and posting them to the public , I would think after so many and LE would speak up about it. I think there has to be truth there or something different would be happening. All MOO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you and further from Kleins' investigation report he states:

During the five day operation, law enforcement agents from both Lemhi and Bonneville Counties were represented. During the five day operation the following objectives were met :

• Time distance study to fully verify or disprove Vernal Kunz’s timeline.
• Time distance study to fully verify or disprove Jessica Mitchell Anderson’s timeline.
• Cell Phone Impact and Signal Study of known directional “pings” in investigators possession.
• Site location study to verify or disprove the testimony by witnesses to KIC and Law Enforcement.
• Dog Search – to verify or disprove the testimony to KIC and Law Enforcement.
• A secondary dog search in the city of Idaho Falls, ID, at two locations.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/private-investigator-issues-lengthy-report-deorr-kunz-case/

 

[mommylicious]

I'm starting to think DeOrr might have passed week(s) before the camping trip.

My only thing with this is that I believe (and I may be wrong) that TBC said he was around when they were getting ready for the trip. At this point, I have nothing to indicate she's not being truthful. I think she's in a tough place but truly loved that boy. I don't think parents would be able to hide his absence for weeks.

 

[white rabbit]

agree zoosleuth. obstruction of justice, hindering an investigation, child endangerment? just to get them into formal interrogation with heavier charges hopefully pending?

I don't understand why they have retained the same counsel. how could both possibly be exactly equally responsible (if the named suspects are indeed the perpetrators).

maybe no one remembers what happened up there or down wherever. think about it this way; if all three slept in the truck and two were completely annihilated, baby got rolled on (I know, sick to think and sicker to say) and in the morning neither can prove the other one didn't do it. thoughts?

 

[Groundwork]

That in particular is one of the things I really don't agree with Klein about. He asked her where she thought he was, and she said "I think he's still up on that mountain" (not verbatim) and then he took that and ran with it like she admitted to knowing where the body is. I could see an innocent person saying the exact same thing. I don't think she's innocent (at the very least she has knowledge of what happened), but that was a little ridiculous on Klein's part IMO. Maybe it went down differently, but until Klein releases the video I won't think anything of this.

IMO

I think JM gave this as her explanation of what Klien was claiming she said. I recall someone asking Klien if her statement, 'I believe he's up on the mountain because that's the last place I saw him' is what he was referring to when he said she knew where Deorr's body was, and he denied it, saying what she actually said was definitive and clear. Now, he could be over-stating his case and/or JM could be scrambling for a reasonable explanation for what he said she said, who knows? But I don't think we can dismiss his assertion based on her words, especially since LE has also said they believe the parents know where the baby is.

 

[neesaki]

I'm starting to think DeOrr might have passed week(s) before the camping trip.

Ive been thinking that same thought, or at least days. Precious little Caylee was gone a month before it was reported. I don't get why these totally self-absorbed, irresponsible people are having children if they don't want them, there are plenty of people out there who really want and would love and care for these precious babies.

 

[KayCherry]

I agree. For some reason I have always felt the 4th of July played a part.

It surprises me that we cannot find out last sighting. I honestly believe if it were me, I was the grandmother, I would come out and tell the world, in order to find my grandson. Where are the "facts" in this case? They are non-existent

 

[Butler]

That in particular is one of the things I really don't agree with Klein about. He asked her where she thought he was, and she said "I think he's still up on that mountain" (not verbatim) and then he took that and ran with it like she admitted to knowing where the body is. I could see an innocent person saying the exact same thing. I don't think she's innocent (at the very least she has knowledge of what happened), but that was a little ridiculous on Klein's part IMO. Maybe it went down differently, but until Klein releases the video I won't think anything of this.

Exactly. And take this out a little further. SB named them as suspects in this case in January or February. They've made multiple statements to LE before that. I don't know if they've spoken to LE since now they have an attorney but they may. They stopped talking to Klein when he came out against them.

If Klein has all this "evidence" that proves any of his statements, why haven't they been arrested and charged? When he claimed JM confessed, why wasn't she charged with a crime? If he has proof, why not?

Maybe if Klein doesn't really have a record of JM's "confession" what might he also be a little less than truthful about? His little video releases tell us nothing except the story Klein wants to tell. Even the most recent one is a few seconds with two grunt like answers from BW who appears to be very frustrated. What happened before those few seconds? What happened after? The is no context to any of these snippets of video Klein releases. If he really did have enough to "go to prosecution" why doesn't he release more of the videos? Five seconds or 5 minutes? If he's released a little it must be ok to release more?

I feel LE doesn't shut him down because the have no legal authority to do so. IF, a very big if, Klein did indeed have the "evidence" he claims to have collected, then why isn't he following the lead of SB and keeping things close to the vest? Making sure the case can be prosecuted?

I'm not one who thinks there are only two sides to a story, that if one is wrong the other must be right. I've always maintained I don't know what happened up there, I don't know if the parents are guilty or innocent. What I do know is people including children go missing in Idaho more frequently than they should, that it's not impossible for a child to disappear without a trace, and sometimes parents kill their child(ren). What happened here I just don't know. So for me it's not if I do not believe Klein means that I believe the family, it just means I don't believe Klein.

I really believe Klein has an agenda here that is different than the he was hired for. If he was so dedicated to find DeOrr, then why doesn't he have people up there searching for him? Because he made up his mind early on and is now working only to prove his theory.

Just my opinion

 

[ZooSleuth]

IMO

I think JM gave this as her explanation of what Klien was claiming she said. I recall someone asking Klien if her statement, 'I believe he's up on the mountain because that's the last place I saw him' is what he was referring to when he said she knew where Deorr's body was, and he denied it, saying what she actually said was definitive and clear. Now, he could be over-stating his case and/or JM could be scrambling for a reasonable explanation for what he said she said, who knows? But I don't think we can dismiss his assertion based on her words, especially since LE has also said they believe the parents know where the baby is.

You're right, that's her version of it, but she also encouraged Klein to release the tape of it IIRC, and he hasn't yet so that's why I'm hesitant to believe Klein over JM or vice versa on this issue. Maybe there is a legal reason that prevents Klein from releasing the video (evidence of confession). And I think the majority of us here believe the parents know where the baby is, whether she admitted to knowing where he is to Klein is completely different.

 

[Deleted member 278]

That in particular is one of the things I really don't agree with Klein about. He asked her where she thought he was, and she said "I think he's still up on that mountain" (not verbatim) and then he took that and ran with it like she admitted to knowing where the body is. I could see an innocent person saying the exact same thing. I don't think she's innocent (at the very least she has knowledge of what happened), but that was a little ridiculous on Klein's part IMO. Maybe it went down differently, but until Klein releases the video I won't think anything of this.

wait. Wait. Wait. JESSICA said she said "I think he's still up on that mountain." I don't believe anything she says.

 

[ZooSleuth]

wait. Wait. Wait. JESSICA said she said "I think he's still up on that mountain." I don't believe anything she says.

Neither do I lol. I'm just not convinced she told Klein she knows where the body is.

 

[DaleTray]

I'm starting to think DeOrr might have passed week(s) before the camping trip.

I respectfully don't think I can think along these lines. In considering DeOrr passed 7+ days prior to the disappearance claims by the parents, this would give the parents 7+ days to come up with a better story. If I had 7+ days I would have found a campsite beside a raging river and make the claim DeOrr fell in the water, etc. Or, I would have camped at a crowded campground, sending LE in many directions, investigating many people, about a kidnapping. If I had 7+ days in a mountainous region I would dig a remote hole (it's not like they had to carry a 250 lb body or to dismember the body. A backpack could have been an easy disguise. I also think probably if they had 7+ days of considering their options they wouldn't have incorporated GPP and IW into the scheme requiring 4 people to tell their version of camping trip and getting the 4 versions to jive.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Exactly. And take this out a little further. SB named them as suspects in this case in January or February. They've made multiple statements to LE before that. I don't know if they've spoken to LE since now they have an attorney but they may. They stopped talking to Klein when he came out against them.

If Klein has all this "evidence" that proves any of his statements, why haven't they been arrested and charged? When he claimed JM confessed, why wasn't she charged with a crime? If he has proof, why not?

Maybe if Klein doesn't really have a record of JM's "confession" what might he also be a little less than truthful about? His little video releases tell us nothing except the story Klein wants to tell. Even the most recent one is a few seconds with two grunt like answers from BW who appears to be very frustrated. What happened before those few seconds? What happened after? The is no context to any of these snippets of video Klein releases. If he really did have enough to "go to prosecution" why doesn't he release more of the videos? Five seconds or 5 minutes? If he's released a little it must be ok to release more?

I feel LE doesn't shut him down because the have no legal authority to do so. IF, a very big if, Klein did indeed have the "evidence" he claims to have collected, then why isn't he following the lead of SB and keeping things close to the vest? Making sure the case can be prosecuted?

I'm not one who thinks there are only two sides to a story, that if one is wrong the other must be right. I've always maintained I don't know what happened up there, I don't know if the parents are guilty or innocent. What I do know is people including children go missing in Idaho more frequently than they should, that it's not impossible for a child to disappear without a trace, and sometimes parents kill their child(ren). What happened here I just don't know. So for me it's not if I do not believe Klein means that I believe the family, it just means I don't believe Klein.

I really believe Klein has an agenda here that is different than the he was hired for. If he was so dedicated to find DeOrr, then why doesn't he have people up there searching for him? Because he made up his mind early on and is now working only to prove his theory.

Just my opinion

BBM. I agree with most of your post except for the bolded part. I don't think he has a hidden agenda, I just think his strategy in cases like this is to put public pressure on suspects and people who know things in order to uncover new leads and move the case forward. I was familiar with him before the Deorr case from the Molly Miller and Colt Haines case, and his strategy is/was similar.

As for searching, did he not just have his team up there searching? LE already did extensive searches in that area. Since there's a decent chance he's not even on that mountain, at this point more searches without new info would be a waste of resources IMO. If he was in it for the money he could just search that area over and over again and run up his billable hours to eternity and never find anything.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I'm starting to think DeOrr might have passed week(s) before the camping trip.

If you listen to this the sheriff states that the last time DeOrr jr. was seen was 2 days prior to the trip by a family member.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2016/07/12/what-happened-to-deorr-kunz
ETA. Its toward the end.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Why doesn't Klein show the clip where JMA says "she knows where the body/DeOrr's is". Isn't that what Klein claims she's said?
Oh, I guess that for the prosecution

IIRC, that was a law enforcement video where JM said that. I'll look for more info to double check.

EDIT: I was mistaken, and it was Klein's investigators that she reportedly said that to.

 

[Mickshawn]

IIRC, that was a law enforcement video where JM said that. I'll look for more info to double check.

EDIT: I was mistaken, and it was Klein's investigators that she reportedly said that to.

But Sheriff Bowerman claims they know what happened and where he is.

 

[neesaki]

Has anyone entertained the possibility that LE may have done a little undercover work? Perhaps used some sort of listening technology at some point? Maybe they learned just enough to implicate them in a crime, but not quite enough, like where Deorr is. The device called a Stingray not only track cellphone signals, but can gather information such as texts, emails and other data. LE also uses scanners to listen in on cell phone calls.

As far as that goes there are listening devices available to private citizens , such as for listening through walls and fairly long distances. If a private citizen had done some such thing it would be illegal, so I guess they would have to turn over the information anonymously. Only speculation, and jmo.
https://www.privacyrights.org/content/wiretapping-and-eavesdropping-telephone-calls