ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[desert-blue]

If DeOrr was never at the campground, I assume that would nix the mountain lion theory?

Nothing in this case suggests a wild animal attack. MOO.

 

[neesaki]

Of course, there's a comedian who does a whole stand up about humans and wild life she says, "Why do people always act surprised when they go to the MOUNTAIN and get attacked by a MOUNTAIN lion? I mean if you were standing in your kitchen and got attacked by a Mountain Lion that would be shocking because it's not called a Kitchen Lion."

Good one :lol:
I actually thought mountain lion for the longest, until LE and two PIs said uh uh. And the parents failed a multitude of polygraphs. So yeah, I think you're right about a defense attorney using that strategy. I sure hope someone finds that baby, and a confession would really be nice too.

 

[Sillybilly]

There has been no evidence to support a mountain lion having taken Deorr. Let's get back to discussing what we know in this case ... based on facts presented via MSM / LE and our own observations of the major case players.

:tyou:

 

[charminglane]

There has been no evidence to support a mountain lion having taken Deorr. Let's get back to discussing what we know in this case ... based on facts presented via MSM / LE and our own observations of the major case players.

:tyou:

Have I told you lately that I love you?

 

[Niner]

Sorry - don't remember "who" posted their theory on DK being in the truck with it turned on... but wouldn't have the dogs (I believe they had cadaver dogs up there searching) - wouldn't they have smelled a "dead" DK in the truck?
JMO!

So nothing "new" lately?

WHERE ARE YOU DeORR!!??!!

:rose:

 

[neesaki]

Sorry - don't remember "who" posted their theory on DK being in the truck with it turned on... but wouldn't have the dogs (I believe they had cadaver dogs up there searching) - wouldn't they have smelled a "dead" DK in the truck?
JMO!

So nothing "new" lately?

WHERE ARE YOU DeORR!!??!!

:rose:

Good question. Sheriff B did say they had some interesting hits from the dogs (paraphrased) though IIRC he never stated specifics. Klein IIRC is the one who stated they hit on the... Rear bumper, wasn't it? Anyone who can refresh my memory is welcome to do so.

 

[ReadySet]

If we’re talking about an accidental or unintentional death, (if that’s what happened) here are the most likely possibilities, by statistics.
For children aged 1-4, the ten most common causes of unintentional death are 1. Unintentional Drowning 2. Unintentional Motor Vehicle Traffic 3. Homicide Unspecified. 4. Unintentional suffocation 5. Unintentional fire/burn 6. Unintentional pedestrian/other 7. Homicide other specified, classifiable. 8. Homicide firearm 9. Unintentional struck by or against 10. Unintentional environment/natural.
Interesting that Homicide takes three of the top ten causes.
Here’s the website that data is from, it’s a helpful site:
http://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc...eaths_unintentional_injury_2014_1040w740h.gif

We’ve been given information about and have been discussing the possibility of something happening with the truck. I was shocked to learn that there are 50 back-over incidents per week –per week!- involving children. I had to double source that before I believed it. Of those, there are about 100 fatalities per year. That’s more than hot car deaths, which is about half that. And, the 100 deaths per year are just backovers! In 2015, there were 64 “frontovers.” However, for children aged 1-5, backovers are more likely. This is an excellent website with everything you could want to know about children and cars and safety.
http://www.kidsandcars.org/how-kids-get-hurt/backovers/

As has been speculated by others, maybe one of the suspects backed over little Deorr. A homicide can be either murder or manslaughter, including voluntary and vehicular manslaughter. Maybe the driver was drunk/high and so was the parent who was supposed to be watching him.

 

[KatieLiz]

[video=youtube;MP2WbzWPVJk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP2WbzWPVJk[/video]

IR sofa interview. 2:05: 'I had that impression...that I was being scapegoated or maybe partially accused [by VDK & JMA]'. Accused of what? To me, that comment doesn't make sense in the context of DK wandering off/ being abducted, as in that scenario the parents would know IR had no responsibility whatsoever for DK, as they had said they left him with GGP, so if anyone should feel scapegoated it would be GGP. Because the comment is nonsensical within the scenario we have been presented with, it is clear to me that IR feels scapegoated, not for neglect (as he was never responsible for DK), but for a more heinous crime.

I just find the nonsensical comments in the interviews interesting as they are a little window in to that parallel universe; that is the TRUTH.

I believe what IR is referencing are the numerous times that VDK, JMA, and her mother and family have insinuated that IR disappeared for a while and could have taken Deorr. At the same time they say he wandered off, and suggest he was abducted, they also constantly question IR and suggest him doing something. That's why they always distance themselves from him and say they didn't know him before that day. He is definitely their scapegoat.

 

[Beezneez]

Has it been addressed as to whether any of the adults camping were in possession of a firearm? I live in southern Idaho & it's a safe bet that most people here are carrying. If they aren't the person standing next to them is carrying enough for two. That just seems to be the way. Looking at Readyset's post of causes of death an accidental shooting near a vehicle seems plausible. A lot of people keep guns stored in vehicles specifically because they can lock the doors. While I know people venture outdoors without guns, the majority have at least a 22 to pick off rock chucks or target shoot. Just a thought.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I believe what IR is referencing are the numerous times that VDK, JMA, and her mother and family have insinuated that IR disappeared for a while and could have taken Deorr. At the same time they say he wandered off, and suggest he was abducted, they also constantly question IR and suggest him doing something. That's why they always distance themselves from him and say they didn't know him before that day. He is definitely their scapegoat.

Thankfully for IR with the way the parents setup their story, they pretty much gave IR an iron-clad alibi without realizing it. No matter how much shade they throw his direction, he will always be the least guilty looking one of the 4 since the parents said they were with him at the creek at the alleged time of the disappearance.

 

[ReadySet]

If we’re talking about an accidental or unintentional death, (if that’s what happened) here are the most likely possibilities, by statistics.
For children aged 1-4, the ten most common causes of unintentional injury death are 1. Unintentional Drowning 2. Unintentional Motor Vehicle Traffic 3. Homicide Unspecified. 4. Unintentional suffocation 5. Unintentional fire/burn 6. Unintentional pedestrian/other 7. Homicide other specified, classifiable. 8. Homicide firearm 9. Unintentional struck by or against 10. Unintentional environment/natural.
Interesting that Homicide takes three of the top ten causes.
Here’s the website that data is from, it’s a helpful site:
http://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc...eaths_unintentional_injury_2014_1040w740h.gif

We’ve been given information about and have been discussing the possibility of something happening with the truck. I was shocked to learn that there are 50 back-over incidents per week –per week!- involving children. I had to double source that before I believed it. Of those, there are about 100 fatalities per year. That’s more than hot car deaths, which is about half that. And, the 100 deaths per year are just backovers! In 2015, there were 64 “frontovers.” However, for children aged 1-5, backovers are more likely. This is an excellent website with everything you could want to know about children and cars and safety.
http://www.kidsandcars.org/how-kids-get-hurt/backovers/

As has been speculated by others, maybe one of the suspects backed over little Deorr. A homicide can be either murder or manslaughter, including voluntary and vehicular manslaughter. Maybe the driver was drunk/high and so was the parent who was supposed to be watching him.

Edited: Should read "unintentional injury death."

 

[neesaki]

OT: I've been concerned about Bessie as I've noticed she's been gone for a while. I just now read the note from Tricia at top of page, Here's the link to Tricia's post. Bessie's going through a very hard time and needs help. Prayers for Bessie.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/announcement.php?f=80

 

[Jackeee]

The following are some of my thoughts and observations as well as some things I just don't understand, in no particular order.

DeOrr goes missing. At least one of the adults must have realized the dangers a child could face by getting lost and that it would take a while for help to arrive, but JMA told 911 that her son had been missing for about an hour.

JMA met and married someone less than a year after DeOrr disappeared, yet didn't marry the father of her child in the 3+ years she was with VDK. I don't get that. It struck me as odd, but I guess it happens.

What happened to the dog that was with them on the camping trip? I wonder how she fared in all the turmoil after DeOrr went missing? In Klein's interview, VDK called the dog by name, 'Missy', but not his son. That was only a very short clip, so I could be wrong. VDK mentioned that DeOrr was messing with the dogs food or the dog, I'm not sure. Could the dog have turned on him and they didn't help him in time? But then, I would think there would be evidence. I just don't know. I had a feeling that VDK was hinting at things during the interview, but maybe I'm reading too much into his rambling.

VDK is a BS baffles brains kind of guy. Talk talk talk. Don't leave an opening for questions. JMA is cold. I believe VDK has been covering for her and is too far in to backtrack now. Since she moved on with her life so soon, I've thought perhaps their relationship was rocky and that out of a strange sense of loyalty he protected her, hoping to salvage what they had left, but she dumped him anyway. Now what does he do?

I hope someone steps up for DeOrr. These are only thoughts, and things I wonder about.

 

[observation]

OT: I've been concerned about Bessie as I've noticed she's been gone for a while. I just now read the note from Tricia at top of page, Here's the link to Tricia's post. Bessie's going through a very hard time and needs help. Prayers for Bessie.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/announcement.php?f=80

O/T: Thank you so much for sharing. I have always admired her work and commitment to helping folks get the justice they need to move forward. So sad and hope things improve daily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

Wonder when Klein's going to post some more video clips. Come on Klein, bring on the pressure.

 

[kammiemc]

Agree. Which is why it is nixed in my mind. Not because it shouldn't have been considered as a possibility, but because it WAS considered, investigated and ruled out!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ReadySet]

I read somewhere, maybe on SM so take it as rumor, that yes there were one or more firearms at the camp.

Has it been addressed as to whether any of the adults camping were in possession of a firearm? I live in southern Idaho & it's a safe bet that most people here are carrying. If they aren't the person standing next to them is carrying enough for two. That just seems to be the way. Looking at Readyset's post of causes of death an accidental shooting near a vehicle seems plausible. A lot of people keep guns stored in vehicles specifically because they can lock the doors. While I know people venture outdoors without guns, the majority have at least a 22 to pick off rock chucks or target shoot. Just a thought.

 

[ReadySet]

My understanding is that there were two dogs at the campground. But see, they were Situational Barking Dogs.
They don't like IR? They bark, or growl, to the extent they have to be tied up.
Someone comes into camp and abducts the baby? They don't bark.
Wild animal in camp? They don't bark.
They see what happened to the baby? Not only do they not bark, they are so traumatized they can't eat. Or, apparently, bark.

Quoting post by Jackee
rsbm
What happened to the dog that was with them on the camping trip? I wonder how she fared in all the turmoil after DeOrr went missing? In Klein's interview, VDK called the dog by name, 'Missy', but not his son. That was only a very short clip, so I could be wrong. VDK mentioned that DeOrr was messing with the dogs food or the dog, I'm not sure. Could the dog have turned on him and they didn't help him in time? But then, I would think there would be evidence. I just don't know. I had a feeling that VDK was hinting at things during the interview, but maybe I'm reading too much into his rambling.

 

[neesaki]

My understanding is that there were two dogs at the campground. But see, they were Situational Barking Dogs.
They don't like IR? They bark, or growl, to the extent they have to be tied up.
Someone comes into camp and abducts the baby? They don't bark.
Wild animal in camp? They don't bark.
They see what happened to the baby? Not only do they not bark, they are so traumatized they can't eat. Or, apparently, bark.

Quoting post by Jackee
rsbm
What happened to the dog that was with them on the camping trip? I wonder how she fared in all the turmoil after DeOrr went missing? In Klein's interview, VDK called the dog by name, 'Missy', but not his son. That was only a very short clip, so I could be wrong. VDK mentioned that DeOrr was messing with the dogs food or the dog, I'm not sure. Could the dog have turned on him and they didn't help him in time? But then, I would think there would be evidence. I just don't know. I had a feeling that VDK was hinting at things during the interview, but maybe I'm reading too much into his rambling.

"But see, they were Situational Barking Dogs"

Lol, priceless, I particularly love this part of your post, ReadySet. Mainly because, well, I'm ashamed to admit it, but believe it or not, the fact they had a dog at the campsite is something I missed for quite a long while. Was it so downplayed I totally forgot about it? Still, how did I miss that ? :thinking:

So, you make excellent points :

A mountain lion or wolf or other predator.... yes, dogs would bark.... like crazy.
A human stalker / abductor.... yes, dogs would bark

Wonder why they didn't ? Perhaps there was no abductor or predator, animal or human ?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The following are some of my thoughts and observations as well as some things I just don't understand, in no particular order.

DeOrr goes missing. At least one of the adults must have realized the dangers a child could face by getting lost and that it would take a while for help to arrive, but JMA told 911 that her son had been missing for about an hour.

JMA met and married someone less than a year after DeOrr disappeared, yet didn't marry the father of her child in the 3+ years she was with VDK. I don't get that. It struck me as odd, but I guess it happens.

What happened to the dog that was with them on the camping trip? I wonder how she fared in all the turmoil after DeOrr went missing? In Klein's interview, VDK called the dog by name, 'Missy', but not his son. That was only a very short clip, so I could be wrong. VDK mentioned that DeOrr was messing with the dogs food or the dog, I'm not sure. Could the dog have turned on him and they didn't help him in time? But then, I would think there would be evidence. I just don't know. I had a feeling that VDK was hinting at things during the interview, but maybe I'm reading too much into his rambling.

VDK is a BS baffles brains kind of guy. Talk talk talk. Don't leave an opening for questions. JMA is cold. I believe VDK has been covering for her and is too far in to backtrack now. Since she moved on with her life so soon, I've thought perhaps their relationship was rocky and that out of a strange sense of loyalty he protected her, hoping to salvage what they had left, but she dumped him anyway. Now what does he do?

I hope someone steps up for DeOrr. These are only thoughts, and things I wonder about.

I think maybe JM got married because she wanted to change her name into JMA to start a new life - without little Deorr and as Mrs. A, unrecognized by new neighbours. Mrs. Bir**, Mrs. Mi**hell, Mrs. An**rson - also maybe a nice opportunity to change the name when driving illegally or buying things despite a dubious credit history??