ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

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It's been alluded to (though never confirmed by LE) that there was dcf involvement with the family. Klein gave a no comment answer when asked in the most recent Q&A. If these rumors are true, then they would need to have some sort of explanation for his disappearance if dcf came knocking.

Again just want to point out that any involvement with dcf has not been confirmed and this is just a possible theory.

They could have just moved and no one would be the wiser.
 
Was the camper not big enough that they could have slept in there with grandpa? It seems odd to me to go on a camping trip where someone has a camper, but sleep in a vehicle instead.

Not sure how often or when Grandpa has to use oxygen, but that machine sounds super loud in the Klein interviews with him. Might make it hard to sleep in the same room IMO.
 
How heartbreaking. Either Vernal is a pretty decent con man, or he's much more sincere and concerned and worried about his son than Jessica is. And why is Jessica always looking down.... No pleading for her son, no pleading to the audience to help. Instead it's as though she's hiding something.... Guilt ? Shame ? Fear ? All three ? Remember in the interview with IR, he even stated something to that affect, she can't look you in the eye, something like that.

Now knowing that she's moved on so quickly with another man, in a relationship that was reportedly already ongoing before little Deorr went missing, I have a question. Could her new husband be involved ? JMO


BBM

I considered this briefly as well, but it makes no sense for VDK to protect them if that is the case. And there's no way VDK is telling the truth, his story changes as often as Jessica's does.

I do think the new husband is the reason Klein alluded to Vernal being Deorr's "alleged" father. Either trying to imply that Jess was with the new guy way back then, or just that she was "getting around" at that time.

Either way, if VDK was just an innocent pawn, then even he would be questioning Jessica at this point and would have spoken up when she left him.
 
Somewhere I read that there is a DNA test as to who the father is of little DeOrr. It was stated in similiar words like this, however, the father was not named. At the time I read this, I thought it peculiar that it was written that way.

Has anyone seen it stated that Vernal is DeOrr's father?

Do you think there is any possibility that Jessica's new husband was the father? She passed DeOrr off as Vernal's baby, however, as time went by she could see that the baby looked like the lover and she knew she was in a real predicament. ***SPECULATION ONLY***

My thoughts only.
 
I'm curious as to why you think the vehicle would have to have been at the campground when whatever happened, happened.... for the dogs to alert on the vehicle. The scent travels wherever the vehicle goes. Is that not correct ? JMO

I think the question for me is that this information is coming from Klein and not LE. In Klein's investigation he talks about evidence found pertaining to a deceased Deorr, and didn't he state that Jessica knows where Deorr's body is? Were any of the vehicles from the camping trip impounded by LE to test for DNA etc? I can't recall. How long after the disappearance of Deorr did Klein gather this evidence? I think it was quite a few months after? Is that particular vehicle still impounded by LE, and if so how did Klein get to test it i wonder?
I was wondering how all the hits of evidence from Klein were at the campground? As far as the vehicle it was supposedly at the campground too wasn't it? Something else could of happened along the way, i have no idea about that though and everything at this point is mere speculation anyway until we find out more.
 
How heartbreaking. Either Vernal is a pretty decent con man, or he's much more sincere and concerned and worried about his son than Jessica is. And why is Jessica always looking down.... No pleading for her son, no pleading to the audience to help. Instead it's as though she's hiding something.... Guilt ? Shame ? Fear ? All three ? Remember in the interview with IR, he even stated something to that affect, she can't look you in the eye, something like that.

Now knowing that she's moved on so quickly with another man, in a relationship that was reportedly already ongoing before little Deorr went missing, I have a question. Could her new husband be involved ? JMO

She is always looking down so you won't see the real Jessica, so you won't look her in the eyes.

No tears for Jessica. All the footage we have now that you can go back and see for yourself on youtube. No wet tears, a lot of huffing, sob noises, chest heaving, wiping away nothing, pressing hand to eye, rubbing, pressing her dry face into Vernals shoulder and back. A lot of controlled talking. While she may be uncomfortable talking when being interviewed, she is so measured in her speech not really in a good way, but in a way where she is controlling herself. Being ultra careful. This is not someone speaking from the heart, the broken heart of a mother whose child has been inexplicably taken from her.

It is important, in my opinion to understand that if all of the "symptoms" or signs of crying are present and there are no real tears, then something is not right. It just doesn't work that way. No real tears for Jessica.

Real tears and crying are uncontrollable, wet eyes, brimming lids with tears, these are the first actions of the physical grief signs, water sprouting at the eyes. She is faking the sobs and we buy that, and we make the assumption that it is all there,. After all it must be there look what has happened to this woman. Then when we see the handkerchief come out or the dramatic sweep of the back of the hand against the eyes. We see they are wiping away the tears. But look close-- it's not real. No tears for Jessica.

Vernal had had real tears several times. In no way do I think Vernal is totally innocent in this but I think that whatever happened, I think he is truly grieving the loss of his son. Innocent or not, he is in emotional pain over this. Jessica I have my doubts about.
 
Somewhere I read that there is a DNA test as to who the father is of little DeOrr. It was stated in similiar words like this, however, the father was not named. At the time I read this, I thought it peculiar that it was written that way.

Has anyone seen it stated that Vernal is DeOrr's father?

Do you think there is any possibility that Jessica's new husband was the father? She passed DeOrr off as Vernal's baby, however, as time went by she could see that the baby looked like the lover and she knew she was in a real predicament. ***SPECULATION ONLY***

My thoughts only.
Never read anything about a DNA test. Recently Klein said Vernal was "allegedly" the father and I think he used that word because the parent's are his only source for that info and he doesn't trust what they say so he can't take it as fact until he sees a paternity test. It was a jab of sorts IMO. I don't think Klein or LE actually believe VDK is not the father. Don't you think they look a lot like each other?
 
Lately I have been trying to explore the arranged selling of baby Deorr theory. I know Klein has said several times that it's a homicide but it seems like Kleins information slowly evolves into something else. I really don't feel like these two are the sharpest crayons in the box to pull off anything without help. Especially getting away with murder. What if there is a completely separate outside person that arranged a sale? Maybe they meet this person at the Clover Creek motel? Both JM and VDK would have participated. JM shows no emotion because she is happy to be free. VDK shows emotion because he is regretting his decision. Grandpa wants a funeral because in his mind "what's done is done" and Deorr isn't coming back to family so he might as well be dead in his eyes. IR is the clueless witness. The phone chargers and burner phones (I will state again this is a theory and the burner phones are also part of that theory) were purchased as per the directions of this third party person as a means to communicate. I also come back to the photo that was posted many threads ago with the truck on the side of the road that was spotted in the surveillance video. To me that photo always seemed like a person making some type of delivery with another person. Obviously it has never been proven the photo was them but it always gives me a bit of the creeps. Maybe the cremains were even part of the distraction. I remember SB stating something about an arranged sale as unlikely but only because he has a hard time believing someone could do that to their own child. Personally I have no problem believing these two would be that low. He also stated he thought it was a homicide but only because of the lack of baby Deorr and the fact that the parents are lying about their missing child.

There it's late and I'm starting to ramble. Has anyone else looked back at all the new information and looked at it from this perspective?
 
Lately I have been trying to explore the arranged selling of baby Deorr theory. I know Klein has said several times that it's a homicide but it seems like Kleins information slowly evolves into something else. I really don't feel like these two are the sharpest crayons in the box to pull off anything without help. Especially getting away with murder. What if there is a completely separate outside person that arranged a sale? Maybe they meet this person at the Clover Creek motel? Both JM and VDK would have participated. JM shows no emotion because she is happy to be free. VDK shows emotion because he is regretting his decision. Grandpa wants a funeral because in his mind "what's done is done" and Deorr isn't coming back to family so he might as well be dead in his eyes. IR is the clueless witness. The phone chargers and burner phones (I will state again this is a theory and the burner phones are also part of that theory) were purchased as per the directions of this third party person as a means to communicate. I also come back to the photo that was posted many threads ago with the truck on the side of the road that was spotted in the surveillance video. To me that photo always seemed like a person making some type of delivery with another person. Obviously it has never been proven the photo was them but it always gives me a bit of the creeps. Maybe the cremains were even part of the distraction. I remember SB stating something about an arranged sale as unlikely but only because he has a hard time believing someone could do that to their own child. Personally I have no problem believing these two would be that low. He also stated he thought it was a homicide but only because of the lack of baby Deorr and the fact that the parents are lying about their missing child.

There it's late and I'm starting to ramble. Has anyone else looked back at all the new information and looked at it from this perspective?

I just dont personally think they sold him or gave him away because they left his comfort items behind...his favorite toy, etc. Anything that would have hushed him a bit during his transition with the other family. :( I don't believe this sweet baby is alive. The mother gives me the most non-trustworthy vibes. I followed this story for a long time before passing judgement. Total opinion.
 
They could have just moved and no one would be the wiser.
But if (big if) they had an open case with dcf eventually there would be a case review and they would want to see the child. But, then again, I live in a state where dcf is pretty on top of things. If there's one thing I have learned from websleuths, it's how many children seem to slip through the cracks of the system. I don't know much about dcf in Idaho and how easy it would be to slip away unnoticed.

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I'm kind of curious. Is Jessica's mother still as supportive as she once was?
 
Lately I have been trying to explore the arranged selling of baby Deorr theory. I know Klein has said several times that it's a homicide but it seems like Kleins information slowly evolves into something else. I really don't feel like these two are the sharpest crayons in the box to pull off anything without help. Especially getting away with murder. What if there is a completely separate outside person that arranged a sale? Maybe they meet this person at the Clover Creek motel? Both JM and VDK would have participated. JM shows no emotion because she is happy to be free. VDK shows emotion because he is regretting his decision. Grandpa wants a funeral because in his mind "what's done is done" and Deorr isn't coming back to family so he might as well be dead in his eyes. IR is the clueless witness. The phone chargers and burner phones (I will state again this is a theory and the burner phones are also part of that theory) were purchased as per the directions of this third party person as a means to communicate. I also come back to the photo that was posted many threads ago with the truck on the side of the road that was spotted in the surveillance video. To me that photo always seemed like a person making some type of delivery with another person. Obviously it has never been proven the photo was them but it always gives me a bit of the creeps. Maybe the cremains were even part of the distraction. I remember SB stating something about an arranged sale as unlikely but only because he has a hard time believing someone could do that to their own child. Personally I have no problem believing these two would be that low. He also stated he thought it was a homicide but only because of the lack of baby Deorr and the fact that the parents are lying about their missing child.

There it's late and I'm starting to ramble. Has anyone else looked back at all the new information and looked at it from this perspective?

Oh gosh, I remember that photo of the truck on the side of the road because it gave me the creeps too. And IIRC, there was someone walking down the road in one of the shots. And the cremains always seemed to be too much of a fluke to be entirely coincidental. Really bizarre. The first PI, Vilt, thought something like that happened as well. For myself, I think it's still a possibility until I see more evidence he's deceased. JMO
 
Lordy, I can't imagine driving around with your dead baby, if that's what happened.
 
I just dont personally think they sold him or gave him away because they left his comfort items behind...his favorite toy, etc. Anything that would have hushed him a bit during his transition with the other family. :( I don't believe this sweet baby is alive. The mother gives me the most non-trustworthy vibes. I followed this story for a long time before passing judgement. Total opinion.

Speaking of his comfort items. Jessica states that he never goes anywhere without them, the blanket, the cup, etc. Do we know where, has there been any reports of exactly where those items were found or located when he went missing? If what she says is true, then wherever those items ended up is the place he was last. (If he was ever at that campground alive.) Were they scattered about. In one place?
 
I just dont personally think they sold him or gave him away because they left his comfort items behind...his favorite toy, etc. Anything that would have hushed him a bit during his transition with the other family. :( I don't believe this sweet baby is alive. The mother gives me the most non-trustworthy vibes. I followed this story for a long time before passing judgement. Total opinion.

Oh don't get me wrong even in this scenario I still pass judgement. A while back I posted a collage photo (I'm sorry I don't really know how to go back and search past threads for my posts). In the majority of the pictures of baby Deorr he is clutching to a green polka dot blanket not the blue one JM had in the interview. This small detail still gives me a tiny pondering of the selling theroy.
 
Oh don't get me wrong even in this scenario I still pass judgement. A while back I posted a collage photo (I'm sorry I don't really know how to go back and search past threads for my posts). In the majority of the pictures of baby Deorr he is clutching to a green polka dot blanket not the blue one JM had in the interview. This small detail still gives me a tiny pondering of the selling theroy.

I went back and found it, you're correct about the green polka dot blanket in several of the photos. Unfortunately I can't copy and paste the link on the computer I'm on right now, but it's thread #26, post #137. The monkey's not in all of them either, but I reckon most of us figured that was just another fabrication anyway.

ETA: I actually only see the monkey in one of the photos. Does that sound right ?
 
I went back and found it, you're correct about the green polka dot blanket in several of the photos. Unfortunately I can't copy and paste the link on the computer I'm on right now, but it's thread #26, post #137. The monkey's not in all of them either, but I reckon most of us figured that was just another fabrication anyway.

Thank you neesaki! This was every photo I could find with him and a blanket. The top two are the blue kind and the rest are the green one.
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I went back and found it, you're correct about the green polka dot blanket in several of the photos. Unfortunately I can't copy and paste the link on the computer I'm on right now, but it's thread #26, post #137. The monkey's not in all of them either, but I reckon most of us figured that was just another fabrication anyway.

ETA: I actually only see the monkey in one of the photos. Does that sound right ?
yes that's right. Sorry I tried to post the photos again but for some reason they don't go through
 
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