ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[The Apparition]

With all due respect, you are not LE and do not know more than them. In the US double jeopardy laws are a big deal, which is why we don't have an arrest yet. LE has named them suspects based on a hell of a lot more than the polygraphs. That is just one small piece of this massive puzzle. They would not be using the words suspects and intentional homicide, as well as saying they don't think he's on the mountain and won't search anymore, unless they had some damn good evidence. These are professionals dealing with a missing 2 year old. If they thought there was a shred of hope they would be searching daily still.

The police are not the ones needing to defend themselves here, the suspects are.

And Klein is being sued because J and V are trying to intimidate him. The case has.no merit. People can file frivolous lawsuits daily if they want to. Just because you see someone is being sued doesn't mean they have grounds for their case. The US is the most litigious society in the world (I think...) and you can file frivolous suits if you so choose. Doesn't mean you will win.

Of course Deorr could be concealed somewhere and have been missed by searchers. But constant lies by the parents, failed polys and every other thing we know tells us otherwise. That's not even mentioning phones records, texts, and pings. The cops know SO MUCH that hasn't been released. It's 2016. Can't get far without leaving an electronic footprint.

And you asked about.libel laws in the US..... that should tell you exactly why the Sheriff and Klein wouldn't be talking without good evidence. -- could you imagine them finding Deorr snagged in the creek right now? If they were just calling out J and V without evidence and then find Deorr they would be sued back to the stone age. They are speaking out because they know a hell of a lot more than we do.

Since you seem to be challenging us so much and defending them I would LOVE for you to explain your stance. If this child vanished innocently please explain his parents behaviour, especially Jessicas. Please explain the thousands of lies, I mean STORIES, they have said. I want to hear a legitimate defence. They can't even explain their day to us or piece together when or how Deorr went missing or even who was with who. I would love to hear you piece it together to make sense for me because the way I see it now I can't even understand anyone believing them right now.

Abd just for the record: i am a "stick it to the man" type of person and I rarely believe LE flat out without a lot of scrutiny.

Ah thank you! I just couldn't muster up the energy and here you went and did it so perfectly.

I am thunderstruck that anyone following "closely" could believe the half baked bullsit that Vernal and Jessica are serving up. I have no idea who else did what, but am real confident in both of them being totally involved in the DEATH and CONCEALMENT of their own child. They can't even tell the investigators a halfway consistent account of the most basic events. Normal non guilty people should be able to provide the relative time they arrived at a campsite and general information like who freaking cooked breakfast.

I think the Sheriff and FBI loves what Klein is doing, he makes their job easier while doing things they wouldn't be allowed to do. He is destroying Vernal and Jessica on a regular basis playing back their own convoluted, nonsensical, lies for all the world to hear. If/when this goes to court I might even fly out to Idaho just to enjoy some sweet, sweet schadenfreude.

 

[jnblsm]

Ah thank you! I just couldn't muster up the energy and here you went and did it so perfectly.

I am thunderstruck that anyone following "closely" could believe the half baked bullsit that Vernal and Jessica are serving up. I have no idea who else did what, but am real confident in both of them being totally involved in the DEATH and CONCEALMENT of their own child. They can't even tell the investigators a halfway consistent account of the most basic events. Normal non guilty people should be able to provide the relative time they arrived at a campsite and general information like who freaking cooked breakfast.

I think the Sheriff and FBI loves what Klein is doing, he makes their job easier while doing things they wouldn't be allowed to do. He is destroying Vernal and Jessica on a regular basis playing back their own convoluted, nonsensical, lies for all the world to hear. If/when this goes to court I might even fly out to Idaho just to enjoy some sweet, sweet schadenfreude.

And, I'm off to Google whatever schadenfreude is...

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[KatieLiz]

Ah thank you! I just couldn't muster up the energy and here you went and did it so perfectly.

I am thunderstruck that anyone following "closely" could believe the half baked bullsit that Vernal and Jessica are serving up. I have no idea who else did what, but am real confident in both of them being totally involved in the DEATH and CONCEALMENT of their own child. They can't even tell the investigators a halfway consistent account of the most basic events. Normal non guilty people should be able to provide the relative time they arrived at a campsite and general information like who freaking cooked breakfast.

I think the Sheriff and FBI loves what Klein is doing, he makes their job easier while doing things they wouldn't be allowed to do. He is destroying Vernal and Jessica on a regular basis playing back their own convoluted, nonsensical, lies for all the world to hear. If/when this goes to court I might even fly out to Idaho just to enjoy some sweet, sweet schadenfreude.

I've been wondering where you were! Thanks for joining us. Lol



Note to all: Klein has just posted another clip to Facebook. I'm heading to go have a listen.

 

[neesaki]

Ah thank you! I just couldn't muster up the energy and here you went and did it so perfectly.

I am thunderstruck that anyone following "closely" could believe the half baked bullsit that Vernal and Jessica are serving up. I have no idea who else did what, but am real confident in both of them being totally involved in the DEATH and CONCEALMENT of their own child. They can't even tell the investigators a halfway consistent account of the most basic events. Normal non guilty people should be able to provide the relative time they arrived at a campsite and general information like who freaking cooked breakfast.

I think the Sheriff and FBI loves what Klein is doing, he makes their job easier while doing things they wouldn't be allowed to do. He is destroying Vernal and Jessica on a regular basis playing back their own convoluted, nonsensical, lies for all the world to hear. If/when this goes to court I might even fly out to Idaho just to enjoy some sweet, sweet schadenfreude.

Yes! Thank you Apparition! And In fact, Sheriff Bowerman stated in his interview with Tricia, that he has no problem with Klein, that whatever he's doing can't hurt, and can only help. (paraphrased). Yes, to all the naysayers, it's in the media thread if you care to take the time to actually listen to it. JMO Good to see you here, Apparition!

 

[KatieLiz]

What are you talking about? Caylee's body was found before trial. Casey should have life in prison for her death.

I think Deorr will be found in that wilderness, further than the searchers thought he could go. NO, I am In NO way connected to Deorr's family, JMO!

I didn't say anything about Caylees body not being found. What I was talking about is the fact Casey got away with killing her child and that case is a good example of what can go wrong in these situations. LE are realizing they need all their ducks in a row before prosecuting these cases. In DeOrr's case, without a body they can't prove he is dead and that it was at their hands. They need a body or a confession to guarantee prosecution. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[KatieLiz]

And, I'm off to Google whatever schadenfreude is...

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

Haha :laughing:

 

[Latestforever]

I didn't say anything about Caylees body not being found. What I was talking about is the fact Casey got away with killing her child and that case is a good example of what can go wrong in these situations. LE are realizing they need all their ducks in a row before prosecuting these cases. In DeOrr's case, without a body they can't prove he is dead and that it was at their hands. They need a body or a confession to guarantee prosecution. That's what I'm talking about.

Thank you, your post makes sense now. I very seldom post because it seems as if those of us that don't agree are relentlessly badgered until we go away. Just saying....y'all enjoy yourselves.

 

[KatieLiz]

Thank you, your post makes sense now. I very seldom post because it seems as if those of us that don't agree are relentlessly badgered until we go away. Just saying....y'all enjoy yourselves.

Aww that's a shame you feel you can't post. Personally I'm always up for a good discussion or debate. It's nice when people can back up their arguments and make points where we can look at both sides and all possibilities.

I was very supportive of J and V in the beginning and not okay when people suspected them.... unfortunately everything I've seen over the last year has managed to get me to change my opinion.

 

[DatelineFan]

I'm new to this site but have followed the case with interest from afar.
Perhaps you could tell me whether LE named J&V suspects, rather than POI's, before or after Klein's involvement.
Do you not have libel laws in the USA?

Law enforcement does their own investigations in the US. They do not pull from private investigators.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm new to this site but have followed the case with interest from afar.
Perhaps you could tell me whether LE named J&V suspects, rather than POI's, before or after Klein's involvement.
Do you not have libel laws in the USA?

How would they prove his statements are false? Have either of them hired a lawyer to go after him for defamation?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

How would they prove his statements are false? Have either of them hired a lawyer to go after him for defamation?

Is this down to the difference between the US and UK/EU libel laws? In the UK/EU Klein would have to prove what he says is true. I guess Misty is thinking of things from a UK perspective?

If you want to lose the will to live look up the epic McCann vs Amaral case....:gaah:

 

[bluesneakers]

Is this down to the difference between the US and UK/EU libel laws? In the UK/EU Klein would have to prove what he says is true. I guess Misty is thinking of things from a UK perspective?

If you want to lose the will to live look up the epic McCann vs Amaral case....:gaah:

"False Accusations—Defamation of Character by Libel or Slander

When one person makes false accusations against or statements about another and “publishes” those statements (by transmitting them to a third party by written word or word of mouth), and those statements damage the reputation, character or integrity of that person, the target of the statements may recover damages from the person who uttered the false statements.

Such statements are called defamation of character."
http://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-help/article/personal-injury-and-accidents/false-accusations/

Law Dictionary: How Do You Prove a Defamation of Character Claim?

"Defamation of character is a term that is used to describe when false statement is written or spoken about an individual with the intent of harming or slandering their reputation.

Unfortunately, defamation of character claims are extremely difficult to be proven in the court of law despite the fact that they are illegal. Any lawyer will tell you that as long as the truth is on your side anything is possible."

http://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-do-you-prove-a-defamation-of-character-claim/

Note: I am not a lawyer but I had to become familiar with the law while working in journalism.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Thanks for that, bluesneakers. That is what I thought it would be. The below quote shows it would be on J and V to prove 1, Klein said untruths and 2, did so with the intent to harm.

First of all, you have to prove without a doubt that what was said or written about you is not true. Once you have proved that the statement is in fact false, you have to prove that the other person said the false statement with the intent of causing you some form of harm.

http://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-do-you-prove-a-defamation-of-character-claim/

 

[neesaki]

You're welcome! Another case where I wish arrests/warrants could be served on spec is Missy Bevers. Someone somewhere nearby had blood spattered police uniform stashed in their house/car, but it will be long gone by now. There must be many other instances. The UK way definitely has its faults but can at least apply pressure AND search for proof soon after the event. It seems strange to me that proof would have to be gained before any of that could happen, seems kinda the wrong way round.

OT: Yes, Missy Bevers ! What happened, is that thread still closed ? TIA.

 

[Onebest]

How many nights were the group planning to stay at the campsite, anyone know?

Depends on which version of their timeline is the truth....

 

[Onebest]

Respectfully, I will wait until Someone is arrested and I have read the affidavit that has the evidence explained. I have no idea what to make of any of it at this point, still after all this time. Yes, LE has said they are suspects/persons of interest, but I am not going to go at the family and call them guilty until LE has arrested them and the evidence is clear; I am just not there yet. JMO

I understand that. You would make a good juror, I would not. I hope all the speculation and opinions surrounding this case dont make it impossible to seat a good jury. Its going to be damn difficult if it makes it to court. JMO

 

[desert-blue]

Thanks for that, bluesneakers. That is what I thought it would be. The below quote shows it would be on J and V to prove 1, Klein said untruths and 2, did so with the intent to harm.



http://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-do-you-prove-a-defamation-of-character-claim/

Not only that, but they have to prove damages. It's a civil suit, not a criminal case where someone is guilty or not guilty. The whole point is to put a dollar amount on their "losses" caused by Klein. I think it's a joke. It appears that Klein still hasn't been served either. I suspect if he ever is served, his first order of business will be to file a motion for dismissal. MOO.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

OT: Yes, Missy Bevers ! What happened, is that thread still closed ? TIA.

Yep, still closed and no news that I know of. Crazy!

 

[KatieLiz]

"False Accusations—Defamation of Character by Libel or Slander

When one person makes false accusations against or statements about another and “publishes” those statements (by transmitting them to a third party by written word or word of mouth), and those statements damage the reputation, character or integrity of that person, the target of the statements may recover damages from the person who uttered the false statements.

Such statements are called defamation of character."
http://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-help/article/personal-injury-and-accidents/false-accusations/

Law Dictionary: How Do You Prove a Defamation of Character Claim?

"Defamation of character is a term that is used to describe when false statement is written or spoken about an individual with the intent of harming or slandering their reputation.

Unfortunately, defamation of character claims are extremely difficult to be proven in the court of law despite the fact that they are illegal. Any lawyer will tell you that as long as the truth is on your side anything is possible."

http://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-do-you-prove-a-defamation-of-character-claim/

Note: I am not a lawyer but I had to become familiar with the law while working in journalism.

Thanks for.finding this info!

I think the key to this is "false".... therefore I don't think V and J can prove that Klein's statements are false unless we can find Deorr and prove that he did not pass away either at their hand or because of their actions or negligence. So far Klein is commenting on evidence, polygraphs, and statements in J and V's own words..... so I'm still pretty positive they have no case for their lawsuit until and unless they can prove their.innocence.

It seems the opposite of criminal court. If they were charged with a crime to responsibility falls to the Crown to prove the guilt. In this case, the responsibility is on them to prove that Klein's comments are false and without merit.... which it appears they are not. Their own words.are.going to keep biting them in the @$$ I think.

 

[bluesneakers]

Thanks for.finding this info!

I think the key to this is "false".... therefore I don't think V and J can prove that Klein's statements are false unless we can find Deorr and prove that he did not pass away either at their hand or because of their actions or negligence. So far Klein is commenting on evidence, polygraphs, and statements in J and V's own words..... so I'm still pretty positive they have no case for their lawsuit until and unless they can prove their.innocence.

It seems the opposite of criminal court. If they were charged with a crime to responsibility falls to the Crown to prove the guilt. In this case, the responsibility is on them to prove that Klein's comments are false and without merit.... which it appears they are not. Their own words.are.going to keep biting them in the @$$ I think.

It would be great if they could! Maybe we'd find out what really happened in the process.