ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[The Apparition]

Yeah the adoption theory seems so unlikely to me as well. You would have to get both parents to agree with it as well as whoever agreed to take Deorr. There is such a "excrement" storm around this whole situation no adoptive parents would ever feel safe. And there seems like no way people from another country could swoop in and adopt Deorr and get him across the boarder without being caught. I blame Vilt for all this speculation because somehow he thinks it might have happened. I certainly hope to never need the services of a PI but if I did I wouldn't work with that guy even if he was free.

We would all love the parents to say what happened but it is pretty clear no one is talking until they feel their freedom is in jeopardy. It seems safe to say the thought of a long time in jail is motivation enough to keep them from talking. It is wrong on so many levels but self preservation has won out over "doing the right thing". They seem like they are going to go down as dirty and low as possible blaming anyone before owning up.

 

[IDTater]

Oxygen canisters/providers should not be used near any open fires or heaters either is my understanding.

You're correct. Interesting, then, that little DeOrr was left with RW "by the campfire," according to VDK in the first interview with Nate Eaton.

 

[Tssiemer]

You're correct. Interesting, then, that little DeOrr was left with RW "by the campfire," according to VDK in the first interview with Nate Eaton.

Best. Post. Ever.


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[AuctionGal]

Oxygen canisters/providers should not be used near any open fires or heaters either is my understanding.

Unfortunately, I saw this a lot when my dad was at the VA hospital. Patients with an oxygen tank off the property smoking away.

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[IDTater]

Unfortunately, I saw this a lot when my dad was at the VA hospital. Patients with an oxygen tank off the property smoking away.

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My grandma was the same. She was not going to give up her smoking just because emphysema necessitated supplemental oxygen! However, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that she'd be anywhere near an open, popping campfire while my toddler was nearby, either. If I planned a camping trip in advance in which I knew oxygen was going to be in use, I would also plan on not having a campfire on that particular trip.

 

[Lillahazel]

Yeah the adoption theory seems so unlikely to me as well. You would have to get both parents to agree with it as well as whoever agreed to take Deorr. There is such a "excrement" storm around this whole situation no adoptive parents would ever feel safe. And there seems like no way people from another country could swoop in and adopt Deorr and get him across the boarder without being caught. I blame Vilt for all this speculation because somehow he thinks it might have happened. I certainly hope to never need the services of a PI but if I did I wouldn't work with that guy even if he was free.

We would all love the parents to say what happened but it is pretty clear no one is talking until they feel their freedom is in jeopardy. It seems safe to say the thought of a long time in jail is motivation enough to keep them from talking. It is wrong on so many levels but self preservation has won out over "doing the right thing". They seem like they are going to go down as dirty and low as possible blaming anyone before owning up.

I would have agreed with this if I didn't happen to go to the Canadian border North of Idaho several days after Deorr was missing with a blond two year old with very few questions.

 

[The Apparition]

I would have agreed with this if I didn't happen to go to the Canadian border North of Idaho several days after Deorr was missing with a blond two year old with very few questions.

Well who knows for certain your circumstances, but I imagine an almost 3 year old who had just been sold might kick up a fuss at the boarder. I also imagine there would be plenty of awareness about Deorr in Canada making trying to live with him over there nearly impossible. Mexico is out because he's a little gringuito and he would stick out too much. It's all for naught as he wasn't adopted out, but for it to work you would have to get him far, far away from America preferably a country where he'd blend in and no one would pay attention to him screaming "you're not my mom/dad".

 

[Eloise]

If I'd "adopted" my kid out illegally but I was now basically being accused of murdering that child, I'd just confess. But even if for whatever reason that did happen, and they are going to keep lying to cover up this "adoption", surely they'd have sorted out a story to cover it up a lot better than they have if it was a planned "adoption". I mean why bring attention to it by reporting him missing at all? Did they not think they'd be investigated as a matter of course once he wasn't found?

I realise it can be a preferable idea, the thought that Deorr is actually still alive somewhere and being cared for, but I'm not too sure how many children that are "sold on the black market", so to speak, are actually treated well by the people that "buy" them.

 

[buffetoflies]

Admitting to an illegal adoption carries a penalty of jail time though i would think because it too would be a crime, so they might think they are better off not saying anything if there really is no evidence of Deorr being found deceased, as they would know he isn't in that case and alive and well living with adoptive parents. Perhaps for them the lesser of a chance being caught if Deorr is in fact okay.

I can remember the reuters rehoming news piece from about 3 years ago, and if there was a middle man there I could see him being 'rehomed'. Using a middle man they wouldn't know who has him and where they went with him.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Yeah the adoption theory seems so unlikely to me as well. You would have to get both parents to agree with it as well as whoever agreed to take Deorr. There is such a "excrement" storm around this whole situation no adoptive parents would ever feel safe. And there seems like no way people from another country could swoop in and adopt Deorr and get him across the boarder without being caught. I blame Vilt for all this speculation because somehow he thinks it might have happened. I certainly hope to never need the services of a PI but if I did I wouldn't work with that guy even if he was free.

We would all love the parents to say what happened but it is pretty clear no one is talking until they feel their freedom is in jeopardy. It seems safe to say the thought of a long time in jail is motivation enough to keep them from talking. It is wrong on so many levels but self preservation has won out over "doing the right thing". They seem like they are going to go down as dirty and low as possible blaming anyone before owning up.

ITA that the adoption theory is pretty implausible and Vilt is the only reason it's a theory in the first place. If they wanted to give up their child for adoption and get paid for it, why wouldn't they just do a legal adoption with the adopting parents and then ask for money under the table in exchange? Making your child disappear sounds like a way riskier way to go about it, but these parents were never credited with being smart so who knows.

To Vilt's credit he was one of the first to determine the parents are liars and he wanted to put a pretty substantial amount of his own money up for a reward.

 

[neesaki]

Almost positive in the "one last search for Deorr" video you can see Jessica hot boxing a ciggy about 20 feet from the camera. Smoking and open fire are both terrible ideas around oxygen but being outdoors you definitely have more margin for error.

To add my opinion to what Ospyder said, I agree that Klein might be running out of things he can "safely" say. I know many on the board don't love him but I don't think he is a moron and I truly believe he wants to see justice for Deorr. Despite the fact he is not LE I'm sure he has a better understanding of what he can or can't vocalize than the average private citizen.

I totally agree.

 

[neesaki]

I can remember the reuters rehoming news piece from about 3 years ago, and if there was a middle man there I could see him being 'rehomed'. Using a middle man they wouldn't know who has him and where they went with him.

Well, that's quite interesting. Actually, at this point nothing would surprise me. And I'm not saying that with a happy heart. It's all beyond tragic what our world has come to.

 

[Donjeta]

The adoption theory does not seem plausible to me because they were pushing the abduction scenario in the beginning. If you know your child is out and about with someone you don' t want people looking at kids and wondering.

 

[Cardinal47]

Just reading along and thinking. If there was any chance at all DeOrr was alive anywhere I think Jessica and Vernal would have been offered some kind of a deal to bring some closure to all of this.

I think he is long gone, deceased. They just can't find him.

They aren't real smart but they were dam lucky!

 

[Karinna]

I think maybe the adoption theory is unlikely as well, but that would depend on what forensic evidence there is and if there is evidence of a deaceased Deorr then why are they not arrested yet i wonder?, because they would be able to have a strong case to prosecute i would imagine if the evidence is there.

 

[neesaki]

You're correct. Interesting, then, that little DeOrr was left with RW "by the campfire," according to VDK in the first interview with Nate Eaton.

And if something like that did happen, it's hard to believe that TBC hasn't known about it all along from the very moment she talked to her daughter. Why on earth would they all cover for an accident like that though, it's beyond my understanding. Yes, it's reckless, careless negligence, but it would still be an accident. Look what they're all going through just to cover it up, it's crazy. But I keep going back to Vernal's comment, that they left him with a trusted adult.

 

[Skully]

Here is the thing, you don't cover up an accident, you call 9-1-1. Casey knows that too!

 

[The Apparition]

I think maybe the adoption theory is unlikely as well, but that would depend on what forensic evidence there is and if there is evidence of a deaceased Deorr then why are they not arrested yet i wonder?, because they would be able to have a strong case to prosecute i would imagine if the evidence is there.

No body = no murder often in the eyes of courts and juries. The burden of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and it is crazy hard to prove that without having a body. It has been done but as much circumstantial evidence as possible is needed. Based on Bowerman and Klein's words the people investigating know the boy is deceased but arresting without having a strong case helps no one.

The whole thing sucks as the 2 people who for damn sure are involved don't seem like they would be terribly hard to out-smart. Sadly they are smart enough to shut up and not cave on each other, knowing without a body or confession they are likely to stay free. Personally that is one of the things I love about Klein, he is constantly taking shots at them and turning the public against them making it more likely someone will cave. If it wasn't for the information age we live in (Facebook, Websleuths, etc...) this case would be cold and the parents would be living mostly care free.

Anyone who thinks they are innocent should wonder why "they" have both disappeared from view and seem to have forgotten to keep looking for their missing son. If they weren't 100% sure he was beyond help you'd imagine normal parents would still be out there fighting the good fight especially since they pushed the stranger abduction theory so hard...

 

[neesaki]

No body = no murder often in the eyes of courts and juries. The burden of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and it is crazy hard to prove that without having a body. It has been done but as much circumstantial evidence as possible is needed. Based on Bowerman and Klein's words the people investigating know the boy is deceased but arresting without having a strong case helps no one.

The whole thing sucks as the 2 people who for damn sure are involved don't seem like they would be terribly hard to out-smart. Sadly they are smart enough to shut up and not cave on each other, knowing without a body or confession they are likely to stay free. Personally that is one of the things I love about Klein, he is constantly taking shots at them and turning the public against them making it more likely someone will cave. If it wasn't for the information age we live in (Facebook, Websleuths, etc...) this case would be cold and the parents would be living mostly care free.

Anyone who thinks they are innocent should wonder why "they" have both disappeared from view and seem to have forgotten to keep looking for their missing son. If they weren't 100% sure he was beyond help you'd imagine normal parents would still be out there fighting the good fight especially since they pushed the stranger abduction theory so hard...

Yes, which is one more thing that exposes their guilt, IMO. Sure, their son was abducted and missing, and they've disappeared completely, not a word. I absolutely want Klein to keep taking shots at them because I think it's necessary. Still..... :banghead:

 

[Karinna]

No body = no murder often in the eyes of courts and juries. The burden of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and it is crazy hard to prove that without having a body. It has been done but as much circumstantial evidence as possible is needed. Based on Bowerman and Klein's words the people investigating know the boy is deceased but arresting without having a strong case helps no one.

The whole thing sucks as the 2 people who for damn sure are involved don't seem like they would be terribly hard to out-smart. Sadly they are smart enough to shut up and not cave on each other, knowing without a body or confession they are likely to stay free. Personally that is one of the things I love about Klein, he is constantly taking shots at them and turning the public against them making it more likely someone will cave. If it wasn't for the information age we live in (Facebook, Websleuths, etc...) this case would be cold and the parents would be living mostly care free.

Anyone who thinks they are innocent should wonder why "they" have both disappeared from view and seem to have forgotten to keep looking for their missing son. If they weren't 100% sure he was beyond help you'd imagine normal parents would still be out there fighting the good fight especially since they pushed the stranger abduction theory so hard...

I agree murder cases without the body are very difficult to prosecute but not impossible. I guess i was thinking more along the lines of if LE had irrefutable evidence that Deorr was in fact deceased by forensic/dna evidence, then there could be a possibility to prosecute a case for murder. I guess it would have to be along the lines of dna evidence of decomp. or hair of Deorr's with death banding, just a couple of examples i could think of that would certainly indicate that Deorr was no longer alive. But it's difficult to know what evidence there is when SB indicates this case is a homicide, so i guess we wait to see how this all plays out.