ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[koios]

Those too large boots.....Who the heck even knows if he was really wearing "too large boots"??? Just one more thing we've been told....

It's said that the boots were too big - but are there any witness reports of them actually falling off?

 

[amateur sleuth]

what kind of evidence?

A diaper/Depends up in a tree maybe?

 

[amateur sleuth]

Announcement on Facebook:

TBC has designed T-shirts and is planning to stand (wearing her shirt) with a banner the 10th of every month (in the future) on a busy intersection reminding everyone Deorr is still missing.

WHY the search on 1./2. October if she is foreseeing Deorr will not be found??? :gaah:

why didn't the mother and father do that immediately after he went missing?

 

[The Apparition]

MOO is the search efforts by J and T are honest.

I agree, they are honestly searching for anything to further muddy the waters and keep this case going 10 different directions at once. Jessica certainly isn't looking for a body, she knows where that is per her 4 failed poly's.

 

[DatelineFan]

First of all, I subscribe to the old adage "innocent until proven guilty".
Next, you refer to double jeopardy. I ask you to look at the case of Bianca Jones/D'Andre Lane where a man was convicted of murder purely on circumstantial evidence & cadaver alerts, despite the child not being found to date. What's so different about Deorr's case?
If LE want closure they should still be searching, not leaving it to a PI to scratch around for evidence they may have missed. Did Klein take Chance up to Stone Reservoir?
You refer to lies & electronic footprints. Where can I find precise details of all the discrepancies in the statements made by JA & VDK, along with the records of the phone pings, please? - or are we merely to accept the word of LE/Klein?
Having listened to the recent interview given by IR (and Klein specifically stated IR had been truthful) what led Klein to state that Deorr was never at the campsite? Surely any half-decent PI would have ensured he had statements from ALL parties at the scene before making a decision on culpability.
The Libel is a side issue which I cannot discuss if US civil law is at great variance with UK Law. I have a vague recollection of a case in the US in which someone was awarded circa $250000 for being the recipient of what was deemed a racially offensive comment. Is that somehow more serious than being accused of disposing of your child?

Have you read the media thread? Watched videos? Listened to the recordings? The discrepancies are glaring. It doesn't even require much effort to see them.

 

[DatelineFan]

MOO is the search efforts by J and T are honest.

Really? Why haven't they been searching and trying to get more media involved over the last YEAR?

 

[DatelineFan]

It's said that the boots were too big - but are there any witness reports of them actually falling off?

With their track record, he may not have even been wearing boots that day.

 

[DatelineFan]

I agree, they are honestly searching for anything to further muddy the waters and keep this case going 10 different directions at once. Jessica certainly isn't looking for a body, she knows where that is per her 4 failed poly's.

BRAVO 👏 👏 👏 Exactly.

 

[haven71]

To anyone's knowledge, has it been determined who in the whole wide world saw Deorr last (aside from the 4 adults at the campground) and when that date was? Unless I missed it, nobody has released this information. I wonder just how long Deorr was "missing".

 

[charminglane]

No, after all this time, no one outside of the family has been heard from.
Maybe LE knows this info, however we do not.

 

[KatieLiz]

First of all, I subscribe to the old adage "innocent until proven guilty".
Next, you refer to double jeopardy. I ask you to look at the case of Bianca Jones/D'Andre Lane where a man was convicted of murder purely on circumstantial evidence & cadaver alerts, despite the child not being found to date. What's so different about Deorr's case?
If LE want closure they should still be searching, not leaving it to a PI to scratch around for evidence they may have missed. Did Klein take Chance up to Stone Reservoir?
You refer to lies & electronic footprints. Where can I find precise details of all the discrepancies in the statements made by JA & VDK, along with the records of the phone pings, please? - or are we merely to accept the word of LE/Klein?
Having listened to the recent interview given by IR (and Klein specifically stated IR had been truthful) what led Klein to state that Deorr was never at the campsite? Surely any half-decent PI would have ensured he had statements from ALL parties at the scene before making a decision on culpability.
The Libel is a side issue which I cannot discuss if US civil law is at great variance with UK Law. I have a vague recollection of a case in the US in which someone was awarded circa $250000 for being the recipient of what was deemed a racially offensive comment. Is that somehow more serious than being accused of disposing of your child?

"First of all" I defended J and V's innocence for months. You have not been here since the beginning and clearly haven't read the media thread in full. Many many many of us here were in full support of J and V from day one... but that all changed based on their behaviours and LE info, not Klein info. My opinion had changed before I ever heard anything from Klein the first time. (Not sure why it even matters whether it came from LE or PI since the PI sends his evidence to LE anyway...)

Second, you refer to the Bianca/D'Andre case: I* will draw your attention to this (just one of many articles):

" The Michigan appeals court has affirmed the murder conviction of a Detroit man whose 2-year-old daughter has not been found.

The court says there was “sufficient circumstantial evidence” to support D’Andre Lane’s convictions. He was charged with first-degree child abuse and murder committed during another felony."

*https://www.google.ca/amp/detroit.c...urder-of-missing-2-year-old-bianca-jones/amp/

So they had enough evidence for a conviction in that case.* Something we don't yet have here since LE still don't have a crime scene and lack DNA evidence (with or without a body). You need to realize that anything that will be evidence at trial is kept close to the vest and not divulged to the public. That's why we have no idea what they know.* Do you think for a second that if LE believed Deorr was on that mountain they would stop searching? Hell no they wouldn't. They obviously have enough info that we don't know about to confirm he wasn't there. You know, the fact NO ONE else saw him comes to mind. The police suspect Deorr is deceased, therefore there isn't as much urgency to "find" him as there is to gather solid evidence to build a good foundation for their case.Remember, in the US guilt must be proven, reasonable doubt for a juror is enough to set them free. I am not the first (or last) to mention the possibility of double jeopardy taking place in this case. If they can cast reasonable doubt and there is no body they would walk free. Also I will add for arguments sake that When it comes to the Bianca/D'andre case:African Americans often get the short end of the stick in the US legal system, there is no denying that.

And yes I refer to electronic footprints because it's common sense that if they all had cells and made calls and texts there will be a footprint and cell tower pings. This comes into play in pretty much any investigation in the 21st century. They have even commented about how Vernal claimed to have travelled down the road to call 911 when based on call records they know that isn't the case. They will be able to pin point a lot based on those cells. They have also commented on Jessicas cell activity and inactivity the night before and day of.

When it comes to your questions about the search dogs and the cell phone info and J and V's discrepancies in their statements I will say one more time: go read the media thread! I'm not gonna waste my time searching through media articles I've read a hundred times to spoon feed you info that you should've researched yourself before defending/commenting. All the info we discuss here is available there since due to TOS we can only discuss LE, Klein and MSM info. It's all in that thread. Please verse yourself in it.

You ask if we are "merely" to accept the info from Klein and LE.... umm yes. You should believe the FBI and LE over the people who aren't even mourning their missing son.* Like... come on!! Was that a joke? And you say Klein said IR was truthful. He never said that. They said IR has been the most CONSISTANT in his statements.

And you're reference to that Libel case payout is irrelevant to this case. The one you refer to was likely an innocent person being harassed and slandered.* Big difference from a PI repeating what LE has said about two MURDER SUSPECTS and then released recordings of their words. That is not Slander and does not constitute grounds for a Libel case. They will never win. Mark my words.

Then you close by asking if the racial Libel case is more serious than being accused of disposing of your child. Umm... the Sheriff has named them as SUSPECTS in their sons suspected intentional homicide. Therefore anything Klein or anyone else says in reference to that is speculation and would be considered legal. They are murder suspects.* Klein isn't posting an uninformed opinion. He is posting what has come directly from J and V for the most part. Sure, if I went on the radio and said my neighbour killed someone and hadn't he could sue the pants off me. But when LE names my neighbour a murder suspect that's a different story.

Now, maybe you should go read the media thread in full. I wish we didn't have 28 million threads in this discussion because I would suggest you read everything we have covered since day 1 but that would take you months.

 

[KatieLiz]

To anyone's knowledge, has it been determined who in the whole wide world saw Deorr last (aside from the 4 adults at the campground) and when that date was? Unless I missed it, nobody has released this information. I wonder just how long Deorr was "missing".

No clue. We are going based on Trinas word I guess.

 

[neesaki]

MOO is the search efforts by J and T are honest.

What do you base that on? I'm not saying they're not, though I have doubts they are, but if they are honest, why haven't they been searching all along? Why wait so long? Why do you trust them to be doing an "honest" search? I'd really like to hear what you're basing your trust on.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I work with a dude from Africa who always has interesting/wise African sayings that I enjoy, like this: "the elephants are rumbling". Which means, there's trouble in the air. For some reason after all this time JMA and mom are sponsoring some searches? Why now?

^^^ That's the question, yes!
Btw I wonder: Is father Vernal not allowed or not interested to take part of the "search"???

 

[Little Ol Me]

I think it's safe to say that not everyone processes the same information in the same way.

I have followed Deorr's case since day 2. I've read every article, have watched every interview, multiple times. I've read all statements by L.E, and Klein. Have read every thread here, and have looked at public facebook pages concerning Deorr.
I still can NOT "with certainty" say that I believe that VK & JMA caused the death and /or disappearance of Deorr.

 

[Sillybilly]

This post lands at random.

Please tone down the personalizing in this thread and remember to discuss the case, not each other.

:tyou:

 

[DatelineFan]

To anyone's knowledge, has it been determined who in the whole wide world saw Deorr last (aside from the 4 adults at the campground) and when that date was? Unless I missed it, nobody has released this information. I wonder just how long Deorr was "missing".

I don't think we will get this information unless there's a trial.

 

[neesaki]

I think it's safe to say that not everyone processes the same information in the same way.

I have followed Deorr's case since day 2. I've read every article, have watched every interview, multiple times. I've read all statements by L.E, and Klein. Have read every thread here, and have looked at public facebook pages concerning Deorr.
I still can NOT "with certainty" say that I believe that VK & JMA caused the death and /or disappearance of Deorr.

That's a valid point. Though I suspect the parents and / or others at the campground of something, I can only speculate as to what actually happened to Deorr.

 

[koios]

What do you base that on? I'm not saying they're not, though I have doubts they are, but if they are honest, why haven't they been searching all along? Why wait so long? Why do you trust them to be doing an "honest" search? I'd really like to hear what you're basing your trust on.

Re J, it's based on numerous things, one is the presumption of innocence unless proven guilty, another is from careful examination of the various videos and audio recordings released by KIC. To give one example: the video titled "VK Jan 12" which is currently about 5th on the videos page http://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/videos. It's recorded audio of V reporting to KIC how J reacted (suspiciously he claims) in a conversation. However the way I reconstruct the described conversation is that a woman was genuinely and understandably upset when someone keenly talked about the value of closure even if it means the worst.. If I was the mother I would be upset too if someone was expecting excitement at that prospect. MOO that audio does not indicate any guilt on the part of J.

 

[Mickshawn]

New video up on Klein's FB page.