ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[koios]

I realise that the "carried/dragged away by wild animal" theory has probably been largely discarded, mainly because the boots would probably have fallen off.
However just in case anyone is still interested in it, two observations....
In one of the two "true crime radio" interviews, the sheriff mentions that wolves and bear were seen in the area during the first week's search.
Also I read about mountain lions (=cougars=pumas) and found that they sometimes take their prey immediately to a more concealed location some distance away, sometimes uphill, and sometimes conceal by covering with leaves and soil

 

[neesaki]

Many of us believed this as a possibility for quite some time. I, in fact, was a very strong proponent of this theory for a long time. If you had taken the time to check out the earlier threads, you would know all of this. The fact is, this has been gone over, and over, and over again. And we have all LE agencies, and two separate PI's that say it didn't happen. I'm not saying it's totally impossible, but I have to go with the evidence. If you have evidence of an animal type predator involvement, please present it. TIA

 

[The Apparition]

I realise that the "carried/dragged away by wild animal" theory has probably been largely discarded, mainly because the boots would probably have fallen off.
However just in case anyone is still interested in it, two observations....
In one of the two "true crime radio" interviews, the sheriff mentions that wolves and bear were seen in the area during the first week's search.
Also I read about mountain lions (=cougars=pumas) and found that they sometimes take their prey immediately to a more concealed location some distance away, sometimes uphill, and sometimes conceal by covering with leaves and soil

Please! I will thank you for giving me a reason to post, but come on man/woman. It is probably unlikely that "we" Websleuthers are going to crack this case, but it seems like you are trying to constantly drag us backwards or onto side tangents and guarantee that nothing relevant gets discussed. If some predator lit into a toddler and carried the body off there would be blood, clothing, bones, etc. It is full blown nuts to think a predator was involved with the amount of searchers and canines that were combing the campsite for days.

I think it is more likely that Deorr was taken in the rapture than by animals. That would at least explain why there is no evidence whatsoever (broken dvd and tootsie roll wrapper notwithstanding). The only flaw I see in that theory is that I am such a pious man, yet still I remain earthbound. Maybe I should change my location info, perhaps god doesn't like Slayer as much as I do.

 

[koios]

Many of us believed this as a possibility for quite some time. I, in fact, was a very strong proponent of this theory for a long time. If you had taken the time to check out the earlier threads, you would know all of this. The fact is, this has been gone over, and over, and over again. And we have all LE agencies, and two separate PI's that say it didn't happen. I'm not saying it's totally impossible, but I have to go with the evidence. If you have evidence of an animal type predator involvement, please present it. TIA

What triggered my interest in mountain lions was this July 2015 post by ILOKAL
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-4&p=11960123#post11960123
and the discussion following that, for example
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-4&p=11960520#post11960520

 

[Onebest]

What triggered my interest in mountain lions was this July 2015 post by ILOKAL
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-4&p=11960123#post11960123
and the discussion following that, for example
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-4&p=11960520#post11960520

Old thoughts, move on up to now. Thats OVER, stick a fork in it done, ruled out by law enforcement a gabillion hours of research by the experts. WE are just itty bitty pee ons on a web board following whats called "evidence" and well informed documentation as best as we can. I personally dont want to relive the past, make stuff up just to talk about it.....again and again and again. JMO

 

[DatelineFan]

Great I'm so glad to hear that they can handle their emergency calls efficiently and "modernly'. How we got to this point, who knows? I guess since the call center is so modern and bad hiney they don't want to release Vernal's (probably CERTAINLY epic) stutter filled call or, GGP's send the meat wagon call. I will sleep better tonight knowing that these calls are being held in reserve for the eventual court date.

Fixed that for you, friend.

It didn't work for some reason, but you get the idea!

<modsnip>

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

I realise that the "carried/dragged away by wild animal" theory has probably been largely discarded, mainly because the boots would probably have fallen off.
However just in case anyone is still interested in it, two observations....
In one of the two "true crime radio" interviews, the sheriff mentions that wolves and bear were seen in the area during the first week's search.
Also I read about mountain lions (=cougars=pumas) and found that they sometimes take their prey immediately to a more concealed location some distance away, sometimes uphill, and sometimes conceal by covering with leaves and soil

I live in the mountains where all animals you suggested are present. We know the different types of animals and how they stalk and hunt pray or in our case livestock at times. Trust me when I say that all of them leave evidence regardless of human discovery or not, and they would have known for sure if he was carried off by a coyote, mountain lion or bear. They are leave distinguishable and verifiable evidence.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

I do not want to go to that topic as I agree with apparition and others that its been discussed to death and there is no verifiable evidence from LE or PIs to suggest this possibility can we move on to more relevant things?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[Little Ol Me]

Please! I will thank you for giving me a reason to post, but come on man/woman. It is probably unlikely that "we" Websleuthers are going to crack this case, but it seems like you are trying to constantly drag us backwards or onto side tangents and guarantee that nothing relevant gets discussed. If some predator lit into a toddler and carried the body off there would be blood, clothing, bones, etc. It is full blown nuts to think a predator was involved with the amount of searchers and canines that were combing the campsite for days.

I think it is more likely that Deorr was taken in the rapture than by animals. That would at least explain why there is no evidence whatsoever (broken dvd and tootsie roll wrapper notwithstanding). The only flaw I see in that theory is that I am such a pious man, yet still I remain earthbound. Maybe I should change my location info, perhaps god doesn't like Slayer as much as I do.

I'm not sure that the lead investigator/sheriff elect Penner would agree. He's lead the investigation from the beginning. As late as the one year anniversary, he hasn't ruled anything out, including some involvement by an animal or human predator. Nor any of the 4 at the campsite.

[video=youtube;kldk9CWDvuc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kldk9CWDvuc[/video]

KIC/Klein believes it is wise to look back over everything. Something I agree with him on.

 

[koios]

I live in the mountains where all animals you suggested are present. We know the different types of animals and how they stalk and hunt pray or in our case livestock at times. Trust me when I say that all of them leave evidence regardless of human discovery or not, and they would have known for sure if he was carried off by a coyote, mountain lion or bear. They are leave distinguishable and verifiable evidence.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

According to GGP, he last saw DK sitting on the ground near the top of the bank. If a cougar took him from that spot the cougar might carry him down the steep bank to the creek and maybe cross the creek, which would result in a break in the scent trail, all MOO.

 

[Lilibet]

IMO Anyone who is still interested in the predator theory would be wise to go back and read every word written on these threads about it. Is there really any new reason to discuss it again? I didn't think so, other than boredom.

 

[Onebest]

According to GGP, he last saw DK sitting on the ground near the top of the bank. If a cougar took him from that spot the cougar might carry him down the steep bank to the creek and maybe cross the creek, which would result in a break in the scent trail, all MOO.

And who wouldn't believe whats done is done, he who never stands up and speaks out for his grandchild GGP. :notgood:

 

[TxJan1971]

According to GGP, he last saw DK sitting on the ground near the top of the bank. If a cougar took him from that spot the cougar might carry him down the steep bank to the creek and maybe cross the creek, which would result in a break in the scent trail, all MOO.

BBM
I'm sorry but IMO your posted statement is a "mistruth."

The only statements that I'm aware made by GGP have been those "mini-clips" released by Klein and only 1 or 2 were of GGP and they were very brief.


Klein Mini Audio – Posted July 19, 2016

WRITTEN STATEMENTS - TRANSCRIPT

Vernal:
My son’s empty chair next to the fire. I yelled, “Where is Deorr?” Where is my son? He (GGP) said I thought he went down to you guys. I said (scratched out) down that way (Toward the upper campground) he said (GGP) yes

Jessica:
my grandpa, when I got to my grandpa I asked him where he last saw Lil Man. He then pointed over to a tree and said he was right there sitting in the dirt playing with his boots. Deorr (adds and I) then started to search


GGP BOB WALTON'S ORAL STATEMENT TO KLEIN:

KIC: Did you ever tell Jess that you saw him down by the creek sitting next to a tree?
GGP: No.

KIC: You never told… You never told her that?
GGP: No.

KIC: Messing in the dirt or with his boot?
GGP: No.

KIC: You never told her that? Okay.


Vernal wrote GGP told him he last saw baby Deorr heading towards the upper campground towards them (parents).

Jessica wrote GGP told her baby Deorr was last seen sitting down under a tree by the creek playing with his boots.

GGP verbally denies he ever told Jessica baby Deorr was last seen sitting down under a tree by the creek playing with his boots. He denied it twice to Klein.


If you have a link that GGP stated himself that he last saw baby Deorr by the creek, please provide it. Otherwise, your post as stated is untrue.

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/videos/1054224814660102/

 

[koios]

BBM
I'm sorry but IMO your posted statement is a "mistruth."

The only statements that I'm aware made by GGP have been those "mini-clips" released by Klein and only 1 or 2 were of GGP and they were very brief.


Klein Mini Audio – Posted July 19, 2016

WRITTEN STATEMENTS - TRANSCRIPT

Vernal:
My son’s empty chair next to the fire. I yelled, “Where is Deorr?” Where is my son? He (GGP) said I thought he went down to you guys. I said (scratched out) down that way (Toward the upper campground) he said (GGP) yes

Jessica:
my grandpa, when I got to my grandpa I asked him where he last saw Lil Man. He then pointed over to a tree and said he was right there sitting in the dirt playing with his boots. Deorr (adds and I) then started to search


GGP BOB WALTON'S ORAL STATEMENT TO KLEIN:

KIC: Did you ever tell Jess that you saw him down by the creek sitting next to a tree?
GGP: No.

KIC: You never told… You never told her that?
GGP: No.

KIC: Messing in the dirt or with his boot?
GGP: No.

KIC: You never told her that? Okay.


Vernal wrote GGP told him he last saw baby Deorr heading towards the upper campground towards them (parents).

Jessica wrote GGP told her baby Deorr was last seen sitting down under a tree by the creek playing with his boots.

GGP verbally denies he ever told Jessica baby Deorr was last seen sitting down under a tree by the creek playing with his boots. He denied it twice to Klein.


If you have a link that GGP stated himself that he last saw baby Deorr by the creek, please provide it. Otherwise, your post as stated is untrue.

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/videos/1054224814660102/

Source 7:08 https://www.facebook.com/KleinInves...864945696095/1131180406964542/?type=2&theater
"and my granpa told me he was sitting next to the bank, on the ground, playing with either the dirt or his shoes"

 

[koios]

And who wouldn't believe whats done is done, he who never stands up and speaks out for his grandchild GGP. :notgood:

MOO he is an old matter-of fact person who says what he thinks, which is words to the effect that the child is almost certainly dead, which I think is correct, and possibly many others here might think so too, and he saying that does not mean he knows what happened MOO.

 

[TxJan1971]

According to GGP, he last saw DK sitting on the ground near the top of the bank. If a cougar took him from that spot the cougar might carry him down the steep bank to the creek and maybe cross the creek, which would result in a break in the scent trail, all MOO.

BBM
I'm sorry but IMO your posted statement is a "mistruth."

The only statements that I'm aware made by GGP have been those "mini-clips" released by Klein and only 1 or 2 were of GGP and they were very brief.


Klein Mini Audio &#8211; Posted July 19, 2016

WRITTEN STATEMENTS - TRANSCRIPT

Vernal:
My son&#8217;s empty chair next to the fire. I yelled, &#8220;Where is Deorr?&#8221; Where is my son? He (GGP) said I thought he went down to you guys. I said (scratched out) down that way (Toward the upper campground) he said (GGP) yes

Jessica:
my grandpa, when I got to my grandpa I asked him where he last saw Lil Man. He then pointed over to a tree and said he was right there sitting in the dirt playing with his boots. Deorr (adds and I) then started to search


GGP BOB WALTON'S ORAL STATEMENT TO KLEIN:

KIC: Did you ever tell Jess that you saw him down by the creek sitting next to a tree?
GGP: No.

KIC: You never told&#8230; You never told her that?
GGP: No.

KIC: Messing in the dirt or with his boot?
GGP: No.

KIC: You never told her that? Okay.


Vernal wrote GGP told him he last saw baby Deorr heading towards the upper campground towards them (parents).

Jessica wrote GGP told her baby Deorr was last seen sitting down under a tree by the creek playing with his boots.

GGP verbally denies he ever told Jessica baby Deorr was last seen sitting down under a tree by the creek playing with his boots. He denied it twice to Klein.


If you have a link that GGP stated himself that he last saw baby Deorr by the creek, please provide it. Otherwise, your post as stated is untrue.

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/videos/1054224814660102/

Source 7:08 https://www.facebook.com/KleinInves...864945696095/1131180406964542/?type=2&theater
"and my granpa told me he was sitting next to the bank, on the ground, playing with either the dirt or his shoes"

RBBM
Your statement (red bold) is still a "mistruth" and your link is "hearsay" as this is Jessica's words not GGP's.

hear·say
&#712;hir&#716;s&#257;/
noun
information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
"according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"

synonyms: rumor, gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; More
LAW

the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.
"everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"


You clearly stated: "According to GGP"...

yet you provide me with something out of Jessica's mouth (hearsay).

Please provide a link that GGP stated where he last saw baby Deorr. Otherwise, your post is considered hearsay and is not factual.

Adding:
Perhaps you didn't see or read in my initial reply to you that GGP verbally DENIED Jessica's written AND oral statement that you are trying to present as factual GGP statements.

 

[KatieLiz]

According to GGP, he last saw DK sitting on the ground near the top of the bank. If a cougar took him from that spot the cougar might carry him down the steep bank to the creek and maybe cross the creek, which would result in a break in the scent trail, all MOO.

Okay GGP also claims he last saw Deorr toddling off after his parents. So no, we can't assume anything based on GGP's statements.

We have discussed this subject SO much here that the majority of us are so sick of it we scream everytime we read the words "mountain lion" now.

 

[koios]

RBBM
Your statement (red bold) is still a "mistruth" and your link is "hearsay" as this is Jessica's words not GGP's.

hear·say
&#712;hir&#716;s&#257;/
noun
information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
"according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"

synonyms: rumor, gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; More
LAW

the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.
"everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"


You clearly stated: "According to GGP"...

yet you provide me with something out of Jessica's mouth (hearsay).

Please provide a link that GGP stated where he last saw baby Deorr. Otherwise, your post is considered hearsay and is not factual.

I did not state that I had a direct quote or audio of GGP himself, and MOO the audio I provided of another witness stating what GGP said is sufficient.
But let's assume you are correct about J's words "sitting near the bank" being a fabrication. It was a not a critical part of what I posted anyway.
If hypothetically the child was taken by a cougar anywhere near the suburban/dodge/hilo/fireplace/picnictable, then MOO the direction the cougar would carry would probably be down the steep bank towards the creek, because that is into cover, nothing more than MOO.

 

[KatieLiz]

BBM
I'm sorry but IMO your posted statement is a "mistruth."

The only statements that I'm aware made by GGP have been those "mini-clips" released by Klein and only 1 or 2 were of GGP and they were very brief.


Klein Mini Audio – Posted July 19, 2016

WRITTEN STATEMENTS - TRANSCRIPT

Vernal:
My son’s empty chair next to the fire. I yelled, “Where is Deorr?” Where is my son? He (GGP) said I thought he went down to you guys. I said (scratched out) down that way (Toward the upper campground) he said (GGP) yes

Jessica:
my grandpa, when I got to my grandpa I asked him where he last saw Lil Man. He then pointed over to a tree and said he was right there sitting in the dirt playing with his boots. Deorr (adds and I) then started to search


GGP BOB WALTON'S ORAL STATEMENT TO KLEIN:

KIC: Did you ever tell Jess that you saw him down by the creek sitting next to a tree?
GGP: No.

KIC: You never told… You never told her that?
GGP: No.

KIC: Messing in the dirt or with his boot?
GGP: No.

KIC: You never told her that? Okay.


Vernal wrote GGP told him he last saw baby Deorr heading towards the upper campground towards them (parents).

Jessica wrote GGP told her baby Deorr was last seen sitting down under a tree by the creek playing with his boots.

GGP verbally denies he ever told Jessica baby Deorr was last seen sitting down under a tree by the creek playing with his boots. He denied it twice to Klein.


If you have a link that GGP stated himself that he last saw baby Deorr by the creek, please provide it. Otherwise, your post as stated is untrue.

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/videos/1054224814660102/

Oh my gosh we need more than a "thanks" button!!

You're the best TxJan!! <3 <3 <3 <3

 

[KatieLiz]

Source 7:08 https://www.facebook.com/KleinInves...864945696095/1131180406964542/?type=2&theater
"and my granpa told me he was sitting next to the bank, on the ground, playing with either the dirt or his shoes"

Not only have we been told NOT to trust Jessicas million stories, Bob himself denied this.

For the 100th time, why do you insist on making up defenses for these adults? You make alibis for them that they haven't even tried themselves and now your claiming they made statements that they actually denied....