ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #3

[Jules71]

Random question, but does anyone know what time LE responded to the scene? Did they come from the same direction as the store, or another way?

That's a great question. I have not seen the answer posted. It has been stated that mom called 911 at 2:36 although I have also seen it reported as 2:35 and 2:28. If we go with 2:35 and allow for 10 minutes for LE to coordinate info and drive 40 minutes, they would have arrived at 3:25. I am not sure where LE was coming from but I would imagine they would have to come from Leadore down that same dirt road as I do not think any of those roads at the camp/reservoir go thru to anywhere else. The only reference we have to check against is the raw interview video where dad says they were WITH search and rescue until quarter to 4.

ETA: and that would be odd they would have only been with SAR for 20 minutes then.

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[verbonica]

I made up a map to show you guys one thing, and one thing only.

Distance.

You will see that most of the wooded areas he was most likely to have wandered off into are not that spread out, in geographical terms. Granted these are straight line measurements, so they will be a little shorter in length than the actual walking/driving distance. Also the uphill/downhill directions aren't factored in. The length of each line is shown.

As you can see though, just about every distance on here is two miles or less. This will help to give scale to the camping area they were in and the size of it.

To view, zoom in with the center wheel of your mouse.....click on the table of contents to the left side to highlight the individual distances on the map. All distances are from the Timber Creek campsite, except for the actual reservoir dimensions.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zAAmDUXJe_aE.kOuWmypLbFis&usp=sharing


How long does it take you to walk a mile ? Two miles ?

Is this map upside down? The reservoir shows up here being southwest of the campground instead of northeast as in other maps. Of course the distances would remain the same, but I was getting disoriented...

 

[Mountain]

From what I researched, the average weight person (current statistics show 178lbs in North America) would take 2-2 1/2 hours to be reduced to bone fragments at 1400-1800 degrees, (I used the median 1600 degrees for calculation purposes). Now math is not my strong suit but if we take the average body weigh of a toddler, 30lbs, the time needed reduces to approx 25 minutes. Now taking into consideration that the campfire temperature was not 1400-1800 degrees, estimating it was around more around 900 degrees, it would take approx 84 minutes or approx 1-1/2 hours. Now while there are several differences between a campfire burning and cremation process, I think it would be very possible for a 30 lb human to be unrecognizable in under 2 hours. Not saying that it is likely but it's not as crazy of a possibility, especially given the options at this point.
Some references
http://www.cremationresource.org/cremation/how-is-a-body-cremated.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation


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The smell would have been obvious. JMO but I would lead more to GGP unknown friend.

 

[IDTater]

That's a great question. I have not seen the answer posted. It has been stated that mom called 911 at 2:36 although I have also seen it reported as 2:35 and 2:28. If we go with 2:35 and allow for 10 minutes for LE to coordinate info and drive 40 minutes, they would have arrived at 3:25. I am not sure where LE was coming from but I would imagine they would have to come from Leadore down that same dirt road as I do not think any of those roads at the camp/reservoir go thru to anywhere else. The only reference we have to check against is the raw interview video where dad says they were WITH search and rescue until quarter to 4.

ETA: and that would be odd they would have only been with SAR for 20 minutes then.

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Salmon SAR is based in Salmon, ID, about 45 minutes from Leadore. That could factor into the timeline estimates.

 

[skibaboo]

Marking my spot. Hoping the little guy is found before we get to a 4th thread! Where are you sweetie?

 

[Mountain]

how long ago were the cremains scattered?

To my knowledge LE never disclosed that info.

 

[Mountain]

...and did we ever learn whose cremains they were and who scattered them??

Not to my knowledge.

 

[Jovi Girl]

Were we going to see some new info come out today ? I thought some posters were implying that . I guess it's best to not pay attention to innuendos. Where is precious DeOrr ?

 

[teeandcee]

I can't believe we're on a fourth thread. When this started I really thought it'd be half a dozen posts and then he'd be found.

 

[Hatfield]

I doubt anyone had time to tend to the fire much after Deorr was found missing so any accidental complete cremation doesn't sound plausible to me. There'd be something visible left and the dogs would have thought it smells interesting.

Agree and "tending the fire" is the key here.

Based on my experience with plenty of backyard burning of brush, I always have to tend the fire to get anything large to burn down completely.

Even if I have a nice bed of hot coals, if I throw a new fresh log on it right in the middle, it will typically not burn completely down unless I spin the log over and move the coals around to get things to flare up again.

A fire has to be tended and things need to be constantly shifted all the time. Most people that have ever had a campfire going know this because you are always having to stir it or throw fresh logs on it to keep it going good.

 

[gitana1]

I'm definitely with you on this and thought it was worth re-posting.

Also LE would not have spent the man hours and resources, which I'm sure were not cheap, if they believed that a crime had occurred.

Frankly I am really tired of it. We have been asked not to speculate about the parents. We have been asked not to sleuth those who haven't been named in the media. Even LE said the social media rumors need to stop. On other cases, people are so quick to say, "LE said it. That's good enough for me!" In this case though, the speculation and rumors continue.

I think little DeOrr wandered off and something tragic happened. I think, sadly, that his little body will be found somewhere close by, that was overlooked by searchers. It isn't that hard to fathom. When Elizabeth Smart disappeared, searchers were so close, she could hear them yelling, yet they didn't find her. Occam's razor, the easiest explanation. No need trying to inject nefarious motives and things that aren't there.

I will continue to think this way until LE indicates otherwise.

Right. And unlike other cases where the police purposefully misled the public as to a person's status as a suspect, here LE went quite a bit further and stated "they're solid", in referring to the family.

I have never seen LE be that specific about their support of family where there was later an arrest or even an admission that there was a change in designation to suspect.

 

[gliving]

Cadaver dogs led law enforcement directly to the reservoir but (Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn) Bowerman said unrelated cremated remains dumped into the water during the search likely prompted the canines' interest. A search of the reservoir using advanced sonar equipment yielded nothing, he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

The cremains are unrelated to Deorr's case. Some unknown person happened to be scattering a deceased person's ashes at the same time Deorr went missing. Again, not related to Deorr in any way except that it distracted his search dogs. HTH

 

[Donjeta]

I'm definitely with you on this and thought it was worth re-posting.

Also LE would not have spent the man hours and resources, which I'm sure were not cheap, if they believed that a crime had occurred.

SBM

Not saying that I think a crime occurred but even if LE suspects foul play they very well might spend lots of man hours and resources searching the woods and waterways for a potential murder victim. JMO.

 

[Jules71]

Salmon SAR is based in Salmon, ID, about 45 minutes from Leadore. That could factor into the timeline estimates.

Thank you. I mapped the SALMON SAR address to Stone Reservoir and it said 1 hour 25 mins.

How does that make sense that Deorr Sr said they were with SAR until a quarter to 4??

If the 911 call was 2:35 and they left immediately they would arrive at 4. Maybe Dad meant they were with SAR at 3:45.

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[starfire]

That's a great question. I have not seen the answer posted. It has been stated that mom called 911 at 2:36 although I have also seen it reported as 2:35 and 2:28. If we go with 2:35 and allow for 10 minutes for LE to coordinate info and drive 40 minutes, they would have arrived at 3:25. I am not sure where LE was coming from but I would imagine they would have to come from Leadore down that same dirt road as I do not think any of those roads at the camp/reservoir go thru to anywhere else. The only reference we have to check against is the raw interview video where dad says they were WITH search and rescue until quarter to 4.

ETA: and that would be odd they would have only been with SAR for 20 minutes then.

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In the interview the mom said she called at 2:36, but on the 911 call, the auto-voice recorded timestamp says 14:28.04 (2:28pm). Here is a link with the complete 911 call.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/07/15/3897072/search-continues-at-reservoir.html

 

[bluesneakers]

Right. And unlike other cases where the police purposefully misled the public as to a person's status as a suspect, here LE went quite a bit further and stated "they're solid", in referring to the family.

I have never seen LE be that specific about their support of family where there was later an arrest or even an admission that there was a change in designation to suspect.

That's my feeling too, and I think if they worked so hard to make sure they were good they did the same thing for the other campers. IMO the constant sleuthing on GGP and his friend is ridiculous.

 

[Mickshawn]

I think 3rd!!

I can't believe we're on a fourth thread. When this started I really thought it'd be half a dozen posts and then he'd be found.

 

[Purplepixii]

I wish MSM was as quick as SM is, especially if what I'm reading on SM is true!
:tantrum:

 

[Lizzzard]

I don't understand all the hooplah about the ggf friend. He/she was there at the campsite when Deorr went missing, I get that. Is the assumption that somehow this person abducted and hid Deorr while the parents were on a walk and great grandpa was busy getting gear unloaded ? If that is even remotely possible, then how does one abduct, silence, bury(?), and cover up the crime scene to the point that 200 searchers find no evidence of any kind ?

Oh, and you do it all in about 10 minutes with a living witness just a few feet away.........yeah.........okay.

There are scenarios where there could be a lot more than 10 minutes available but it would require a possible TOS violation to get into it now. Before I knew the friend was also off limits, I explored it. I won't now.

 

[Mickshawn]

I am a total newbie here (1st time ever), but what does "MSM" and "SM" mean? I'm sure it's obvious (but not to me)...Thanks....

I wish MSM was as quick as SM is, especially if what I'm reading on SM is true!
:tantrum: