ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #3

[starfire]

If it wasn't nap time and the parents wanted to share the great outdoors with him, why leave him to go exploring shortly after arriving? He obviously wasn't playing with Ggp, so that's one of the reasons I wanted to know exactly what Deorr was doing when last seen - playing with his hot rod on the ground, climbing inside the tent...?

They hadn't just arrived, they had arrived sometime in the morning (not sure when), then they left to go to the store (not sure when) and were back supposedly by 1pm. Maybe the parents just wanted 20 minutes to themselves who knows. It definitely would be interesting to know exactly what GGF and Deorr were doing when the parents left for their walk, and what the "friend" was doing. From the parents story, when they left for their walk, whatever GGF and little Deorr were doing, they were both hanging out by the campfire.

 

[starfire]

Well, sure. Anyone who has ever been in the car w/ a young kid for 2+ hours can appreciate that but I guess the part that doesn't make sense to me is why anyone would leave a tired/cranky/whatever kid in that horribly unsafe location without making damn sure the child is being watched like a hawk. Wait until he's sleeping! Like you said earlier, what probably happened is they didn't specifically say to the grandpa watch him (paraphrasing), so grandpa didn't think much of it when the baby disappeared. Why would their need for a break to go do whatever it is they were doing be the priority?

Sure they may not follow a regular nap schedule or whatever, because camping, but their primary responsibility is to take care of the baby and not go exploring. They knew it was close to his nap time, and from what I understand they were gone for a good amount of time (I'll go look for my source for that, I read it somewhere but can't remember the exact amount of time). I can't see leaving my two year old with my great grandpa to deal with at/near nap time. Its just so odd to me. But then again, I was a very nervous mother (still am, I admit) and rarely let anyone watch my daughter at that age so maybe this isn't so odd to everyone else.

I'm not trying to blame them, I'm sure they feel horrible about all of this. I just wish it made sense, and I wish things happened differently for DeOrr. How sad.

The parents claim they were gone "exploring" for about 10 minutes.

 

[rkf]

I think the comment by the parents was meant to say that at most times under normal circumstances, DeOrr had these items. However, a camping trip with ggp and parents is a really exciting event to a small child so it was an exception to the rule. I imagine Christmas morning, a birthday party, or Halloween might be additional times a child might temporarily forget their need for security items. Jmo

That would make sense if he was exploring with them or ggp was entertaining him. But if they're sneaking away for a little alone time and want to avoid the separation drama, I'd think having his favorite things nearby might buy them a few extra minutes. Being in a new place can also have the opposite affect - making kids more clingy and needing their security objects. I'm just following what the parents said in their interview. They emphasized that he would never go anywhere without one of these items, no matter how inconvenient it was to him or anyone else, so the fact that he left without them makes them think he was abducted. However, he had no choice but to leave without them, even if it was just on an exploring trip of his own, because his favorite things were locked in the car where I'm assuming he couldn't get them by himself.

 

[starfire]

I have read that the blanket was left in the truck, but I am not exactly sure where that came from. It was not from an article, but from comments. Did the parents say that? Is there a source for that? I don't remember them saying it in the video interview. Did they also say the monkey and cup were still inside the truck when Deorr went missing?

 

[SuperTmo]

The parents claim they were gone "exploring" for about 10 minutes.

In the 911 call the mother says the baby was missing for an hour. They searched for him for 20 minutes before calling. So they were "exploring" for 40 minutes with that math. The dad started to say "fifty" in the interview and the mom jumped in and interrupted him and suddenly it was 10 minutes and 50 yards away. But in the 911 call, it was an hour. Terribly irresponsible and not really fair to leave grandpa saddled w/ a kid who was near nap time, likely tired, in an area he really wasn't safe in.

 

[SuperTmo]

I have read that the blanket was left in the truck, but I am not exactly sure where that came from. It was not from an article, but from comments. Did the parents say that? Is there a source for that? I don't remember them saying it in the video interview. Did they also say the monkey and cup were still inside the truck when Deorr went missing?

I believe the mother said the blanket was in the truck during the interview and then they said he always had all three of them with him.

 

[starfire]

In the 911 call the mother says the baby was missing for an hour. They searched for him for 20 minutes before calling. So they were "exploring" for 40 minutes with that math. The dad started to say "fifty" in the interview and the mom jumped in and interrupted him and suddenly it was 10 minutes and 50 yards away. But in the 911 call, it was an hour. Terribly irresponsible and not really fair to leave grandpa saddled w/ a kid who was near nap time, likely tired, in an area he really wasn't safe in.

That discrepancy bothers me too. Were they gone for 10 minutes then searched for 20 minutes = 30 minutes before the 911 call or was it an hour?

 

[SuperTmo]

That discrepancy bothers me too. Were they gone for 10 minutes then searched for 20 minutes = 30 minutes before the 911 call or was it an hour?

The mom most definitely says he has been missing, "about an hour." The dispatcher says, "an hour?" and the mother affirms, "yeah."

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-idaho-911-call

I mean, that's a significant difference between the 10 minutes they said in their interview and what she said to 911. I actually think he was probably missing longer than that and that they were gone from camp longer than that because the dad starts to say "we weren't more than fifty" and the mom interrupts and says, "ten minutes" during their interview. I think the time they were gone was rounded down to an hour on the 911 call, and then really minimized in the interview. JMO.Moo.

Edit: goodnight!

 

[gregjrichards]

That discrepancy bothers me too. Were they gone for 10 minutes then searched for 20 minutes = 30 minutes before the 911 call or was it an hour?

It might be nothing if you were so desperately worried about your child being missing it would probably be difficult to think straight. They probably weren't keeping an eye on the clock when they went away and then when they came back and were desperately searching. Maybe they were actually away longer and didn't want to be judged for leaving him for as long as they did and that could be why the times are questionable.

Night SuperTmo it is early morning here.

 

[starfire]

It might be nothing if you were so desperately worried about your child being missing it would probably be difficult to think straight. They probably weren't keeping an eye on the clock when they went away and then when they came back and were desperately searching. Maybe they were actually away longer and didn't want to be judged for leaving him for as long as they did and that could be why the times are questionable.

Night SuperTmo it is early morning here.

That definitely could be the case. The mom may have also exaggerated the time in the hopes it would seem more urgent so LE would get there faster. Who knows?

 

[Hoosier952]

I'm not sure the area the helicopter(s) searched but its reasonable to assume (IMHO) that it searched farther out than 2.5 miles simply because it would probably be easy to do from the air. That's purely a guess on my part but 2.5 miles is nothing for a helicopter, even when you consider that it's actually 2.5 miles radiating in all directions (presumably) from a center point. Besides, I don't think they would fly all that way and just do the bare minimum. I don't mean that to sound snarky. It's just that the crew on that bird is serious about what they do!...
...Unfortunately, I fear that the scenarios that seem most likely to me would mean that DeOrr was deceased before responders were on scene and maybe even before the 911 call was placed, making the helicopter's heat-related technology less beneficial. I believe he is still in that area and that the parents are NOT involved (though I'm sure they are feeling plenty guilty). I think he is either in the water or buried. In both of those cases perhaps the drones will help with clearing the water or finding disturbed earth.

Only quoted part of your post.

I didn't take it as snarky at all. I assumed they would search a large area, but I'm not familiar with super helicopters and their limitations as far as technology goes.

I've seen IR footage before, but I wonder how much the forest canopy would obstruct heat signatures? Everything would be fully leafed out and I'd think the mature trees would have tons of branches blocking it as well. Once again, no knowledge, just rattling.

BBM- this is why I was wondering how soon it got sent out.

 

[Tallex]

Maybe they just really needed to go to the toilet.....and by toilet I mean a bush away from g grandpa and his friend......you're not going to say well the missus and I went off to poop

 

[Tallex]

Like they just drove for 40minutes. Also I'm not surprised they're no longer talking to media. Last time their every move and word has been analysed

 

[Fitzrobin]

Can someone help me. Am I able to say my beliefs as long as I state it is my opinion? Does it have to fall under the allowable subjects? Can I give a scenario that I believe happened from the timeline? Not sure how implicating a bird, mountain lion, stranger, or other source is different than some people at the campsite.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

Can someone help me. Am I able to say my beliefs as long as I state it is my opinion? Does it have to fall under the allowable subjects? Can I give a scenario that I believe happened from the timeline? Not sure how implicating a bird, mountain lion, stranger, or other source is different than some people at the campsite.

Good Morning...you might ask a mod to be sure or maybe someone will come along who can answer this.

 

[wondering25]

Because he's a toddler, can't walk as fast, needs to be held, tired because it's near nap time, they want alone time, don't want to carry him, he was cranky, etc. A bunch of reasons why parents might want a few minutes without their kid after a long drive.

Ok, so wouldnt DeOrr cry when he didnt see his parents? Kids that age are very attached. Or wouldnt he say something? "I come too". Apparently GGP knew enough to say he thought the parents had him. So, did GGP know they were going off for some alone time or just think they had him in their line of sight? Baby was "missing" for 4 minutes or 20 minutes or what? If parents walked away to explore, how long before it was determined no one had seen the baby.. then another 20 minutes looking for him then 911? right?

 

[pinklilies]

Because he's a toddler, can't walk as fast, needs to be held, tired because it's near nap time, they want alone time, don't want to carry him, he was cranky, etc. A bunch of reasons why parents might want a few minutes without their kid after a long drive.

Well to be honest, once a child comes along you should forget me time alone, not wanting to carry him, cos he's cranky or walks slow! All those things come with parenting and are part of the package. Not having a go at the parents as none of those reasons have been said, just amazed you think those reasons would be acceptable.

My thought was when they said they went exploring, they were sussing the area out. Probably just checking what was where etc, if there were any dangerous areas, as they'd not been before. That was how I interpreted the exploring issue. Not that they went off for their own pleasure as such.

 

[Fitzrobin]

Asking questions and sharing ideas is the whole premise of WS if I am not mistaken. Calling someone's parenting ideas into questions seems a bit snarky.

 

[jmcgladr]

Maybe they just really needed to go to the toilet.....and by toilet I mean a bush away from g grandpa and his friend......you're not going to say well the missus and I went off to poop

There are pit toilets at the campsite, so really no need to use the bushes.

 

[Hatfield]

There are pit toilets at the campsite, so really no need to use the bushes.

I know what "outhouses" are but never heard the term "pit toilets".

Does that just mean you pick your own spot in the woods and you are supposed to bury when leaving.

Or is there really some sort of designated hole or pit and it is clearly marked for people?

And the dreaded questions:

How deep are they?
Are some deeper than others?
Could it be possible he fell in and is unrecognizable and maybe that is why nobody found him?