ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #30

[misty48]

Ok since this is the second time someone has asked, not in my experience. I have heard of that in years gone my experience begins in 2008 and I never witnessed that happening. I doubt this will help in the quest for "the truth" but at Cablevision where I worked all the calls also recorded the rep's computer screen and you could listen to the call and see the rep typing and servicing the caller. If there was some kind of glitch in the Matrix and Vernal and Jessica's call did cross I am positive a modern call center would see that on the computer screens and of course hear the audio suddenly adding in 1 or 2 more voices. They also assuredly have what is called screen pop where when a call comes in the computer pulls up relevant information like addresses for landline based 911 calls and in this case the name of the mobile subscriber and quite possibly some kind of gps location. My opinion which is admittedly of little value is there is no way Vernal and Jessica crossed calls especially considering this was probably a small call center where the reps might actually be sitting 5 feet apart.

Isn't it important to establish why 4 voices can be heard on that recording, not just 2?
Do you know how a Barge-In is recorded, please?

 

[The Apparition]

Isn't it important to establish why 4 voices can be heard on that recording, not just 2?
Do you know how a Barge-In is recorded, please?

No I don't think it's important because I already know. When a rep mutes their mic the caller can't hear any audio (let me place you on a silent hold mam) but the recording equipment continues to record all sound. The only way to stop the recording from picking up audio is to fully turn off the amp your headset is plugged into, many call centers forbid this for reasons you can imagine. You can tell Jessica doesn't hear anything due to muted mic or you would hear her saying who are you talking to? So mystery solved as far as I'm concerned the 911 rep muted the mic and asked some questions of a supervisor or co-worker.

I have no idea what a Barge-In is so can't offer any opinions there.

 

[white rabbit]

stupid question but it goes to tobywong's post. when did V and J call in sick to work?

 

[koios]

No I don't think it's important because I already know. When a rep mutes their mic the caller can't hear any audio (let me place you on a silent hold mam) but the recording equipment continues to record all sound. The only way to stop the recording from picking up audio is to fully turn off the amp your headset is plugged into, many call centers forbid this for reasons you can imagine. You can tell Jessica doesn't hear anything due to muted mic or you would hear her saying who are you talking to? So mystery solved as far as I'm concerned the 911 rep muted the mic and asked some questions of a supervisor or co-worker.

I have no idea what a Barge-In is so can't offer any opinions there.

Thanks Apparition for that good explanation of how muting works. Yes, during the 911 recording, the voices of some of the other people in the dispatch room can be heard.
I assume this is happening by the simple process of their voices passing through the air in the dispatch room and entering the microphone of the lady operator who is taliking to J.
Example: after J's operator puts J on hold (0:41) to speak to co-worker "John", his brief reply "Yeah" is audible (0:46).
Example: The words "Vernal" (2:21) "... We'll call you with any more questions ok" (2:28), spoken by a different lady operator, presumably speaking on another line to V.
Example: "Yeah, I know where it is" (3:57) spoken by one of the male officers in the dispatch room.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

 

[koios]

A provisional attempt of a map of Fri trip, made by combining the few account snippets that have been released, so it may be incorrect and/or incomplete, and corrections are welcome.
1 shop (got directions), 2 pump (out of action), 3 motel (got directions), 4 pump, 5 route to/from campground.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

stupid question but it goes to tobywong's post. when did V and J call in sick to work?

It doesn't help but otherwise you are vainly waiting for an answer perhaps: I only vague remember V called in Thursday. I didn't hear/read of J calling in sick.

 

[The Apparition]

Lets play a new game!

I just re-watched (first 8 mins) of the tortuous first interview with Vernal and Jessica. Did you know that Vernal talks non-stop (and nonsensically) for 4:19 minutes before he asks a shellshocked Nate "what questions did you guys have"? Do any of you find that strange, he also doesn't ever mention his son DEORR'S name during his law enforcement fellating monologue. At the 5 minute mark Vernal seques smoothly (not) into saying the cell service is very hearsay up there, while describing how they called family to help after they realized nameless boy was missing. I am 8 minutes through the interview and no one has said Deorr's name yet, but I have heard Vernal say hearsay twice (perhaps he's a truck driver and a lawyer) and Jessica say it once as well. I don't have anymore time tonight to devote to this research but perhaps our two resident researchers can pry themselves away from mapping and call analyzing to sink their teeth into something more substantial. I would love to see some time devoted to something as relevant as an actual interview with our 2 misunderstood parents, in the interest of truth of course!

 

[TobyWong*]

'Law enforcement fellating monologue' perfect.

 

[skinnycat]

I wonder how many times Jessica's ex-husband father of the older children has been questioned about how Jessica parented the older children. She really gives me the impression that she has some form of disassociate personality disorder.

There is something really wrong with someone who is the mother of 3 children to call their mother first looking for reassurance when one of their children is missing in the great wilderness, normal first thought is to call 911,get the proper help on the way, not your mother who is a few hours away, makes no logical sense

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Lets play a new game!

I just re-watched (first 8 mins) of the tortuous first interview with Vernal and Jessica. Did you know that Vernal talks non-stop (and nonsensically) for 4:19 minutes before he asks a shellshocked Nate "what questions did you guys have"? Do any of you find that strange, he also doesn't ever mention his son DEORR'S name during his law enforcement fellating monologue. At the 5 minute mark Vernal seques smoothly (not) into saying the cell service is very hearsay up there, while describing how they called family to help after they realized nameless boy was missing. I am 8 minutes through the interview and no one has said Deorr's name yet, but I have heard Vernal say hearsay twice (perhaps he's a truck driver and a lawyer) and Jessica say it once as well. I don't have anymore time tonight to devote to this research but perhaps our two resident researchers can pry themselves away from mapping and call analyzing to sink their teeth into something more substantial. I would love to see some time devoted to something as relevant as an actual interview with our 2 misunderstood parents, in the interest of truth of course!

I'm able to understand English but unfortunately not J's and V'S Idaho American English (if on video and fast spoken).

 

[Deleted member 102539]

'Law enforcement fellating monologue' perfect.

Google translate is too stupid. Thank God I did understand on my own.

 

[misty48]

Lets play a new game!

I just re-watched (first 8 mins) of the tortuous first interview with Vernal and Jessica. Did you know that Vernal talks non-stop (and nonsensically) for 4:19 minutes before he asks a shellshocked Nate "what questions did you guys have"? Do any of you find that strange, he also doesn't ever mention his son DEORR'S name during his law enforcement fellating monologue. At the 5 minute mark Vernal seques smoothly (not) into saying the cell service is very hearsay up there, while describing how they called family to help after they realized nameless boy was missing. I am 8 minutes through the interview and no one has said Deorr's name yet, but I have heard Vernal say hearsay twice (perhaps he's a truck driver and a lawyer) and Jessica say it once as well. I don't have anymore time tonight to devote to this research but perhaps our two resident researchers can pry themselves away from mapping and call analyzing to sink their teeth into something more substantial. I would love to see some time devoted to something as relevant as an actual interview with our 2 misunderstood parents, in the interest of truth of course!

In you new game (which I won't play tonight on the grounds of "having a headache") perhaps you'd like to start by counting the number of J's contributions during the first 4m19s.
Happy thanksgiving to you all from this side of the Atlantic,

 

[CoverMeCagney]

'Law enforcement fellating monologue' perfect.

The Apparition - you're definitely on my list of "Websleuthers I would love to sit in a pub with all afternoon"
:lol:

PS this is not an actual list in case any of you think I'm weird, it's in my head....

 

[koios]

Lets play a new game!

I just re-watched (first 8 mins) of the tortuous first interview with Vernal and Jessica. Did you know that Vernal talks non-stop (and nonsensically) for 4:19 minutes before he asks a shellshocked Nate "what questions did you guys have"? Do any of you find that strange, he also doesn't ever mention his son DEORR'S name during his law enforcement fellating monologue. At the 5 minute mark Vernal seques smoothly (not) into saying the cell service is very hearsay up there, while describing how they called family to help after they realized nameless boy was missing. I am 8 minutes through the interview and no one has said Deorr's name yet, but I have heard Vernal say hearsay twice (perhaps he's a truck driver and a lawyer) and Jessica say it once as well. I don't have anymore time tonight to devote to this research but perhaps our two resident researchers can pry themselves away from mapping and call analyzing to sink their teeth into something more substantial. I would love to see some time devoted to something as relevant as an actual interview with our 2 misunderstood parents, in the interest of truth of course!

I'd like to point out the importance of establishing a baseline. This is a prerequistie of both polygraphs and of "statement analysis". The essential is to determine (by control questions) the baseline, the way the person normally speaks when under no pressure too lie. In the case of V it's important to recognise that his baseline is (a) to attribute many actions to himself even if they were performed by other people,, and (b) something possibly related to dyslexia (which I have) which causes him to say a word opposite to what he means (the prime example being "had" versus the intended" has" in a KIC audio release snippet). This makes the analysis of what he says both complex and interesting, and I have not ruled out the possibility he that he might have no knowledge of what happened. And B.T.W. from amateur statement analysis I've completely ruled out the professionally announced idea that J knows what happened, but that's just MOO..

 

[neesaki]

The Apparition - you're definitely on my list of "Websleuthers I would love to sit in a pub with all afternoon"
:lol:

PS this is not an actual list in case any of you think I'm weird, it's in my head....

LOL, Wouldn't that just be the bomb ?! :happydance: Hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving! :autumn::turkey:

 

[ReadySet]

Are you saying you established Vs baseline by listening to the first video? That's not a baseline. Did you hear him speaking before this video? If so, how many times? Links?

You disproved your own statement. You said a baseline must be established before a person is under pressure to lie. Are you saying you know he was telling the truth in the video? No, this is NOT a baseline.
You have diagnosed him with dyslexia because you have it? Wow. I'm a special ed. teacher and gosh, I didn't know all you had to do was listen to a person speaking for a bit, and then you would know! All that data, and standardized testing, and all the time I just needed to listen to a student speak! The informal definition of dyslexia is extreme difficulty learning to read. Saying that if a person says had instead of has is dyslexia?

The truth is that J and V are two crappy excuses for parents who have been named suspects by LE in the possible homicide of their child.

Making excuses for them? What a horrible way to deny little Deorr, to desert him, and disrespect him.

JMO

OT: Cover Me Cagney, was it you who asked me to expand what I posted a few months ago about my trip to Leadore? Or was it another poster.

And, does anyone know how much it pays to go on internet forums and test the waters for possible defense arguments? Of course I don't think anyone here is doing that.

I'd like to point out the importance of establishing a baseline. This is a prerequistie of both polygraphs and of "statement analysis". The essential is to determine (by control questions) the baseline, the way the person normally speaks when under no pressure too lie. In the case of V it's important to recognise that his baseline is (a) to attribute many actions to himself even if they were performed by other people,, and (b) something possibly related to dyslexia (which I have) which causes him to say a word opposite to what he means (the prime example being "had" versus the intended" has" in a KIC audio release snippet). This makes the analysis of what he says both complex and interesting, and I have not ruled out the possibility he that he might have no knowledge of what happened. And B.T.W. from amateur statement analysis I've completely ruled out the professionally announced idea that J knows what happened, but that's just MOO..

 

[koios]

Are you saying you established Vs baseline by listening to the first video? That's not a baseline. Did you hear him speaking before this video? If so, how many times? Links?

You disproved your own statement. You said a baseline must be established before a person is under pressure to lie. Are you saying you know he was telling the truth in the video? No, this is NOT a baseline.
You have diagnosed him with dyslexia because you have it? Wow. I'm a special ed. teacher and gosh, I didn't know all you had to do was listen to a person speaking for a bit, and then you would know! All that data, and standardized testing, and all the time I just needed to listen to a student speak! The informal definition of dyslexia is extreme difficulty learning to read. Saying that if a person says had instead of has is dyslexia?

The truth is that J and V are two crappy excuses for parents who have been named suspects by LE in the possible homicide of their child.

Making excuses for them? What a horrible way to deny little Deorr, to desert him, and disrespect him.

JMO

OT: Cover Me Cagney, was it you who asked me to expand what I posted a few months ago about my trip to Leadore? Or was it another poster.

And, does anyone know how much it pays to go on internet forums and test the waters for possible defense arguments? Of course I don't think anyone here is doing that.

I'm not making excuses for anyone ReadySet, I (same as you) want the solution and closure to this case regardless of who is guilty and who isn't.. The principle of baselines is professionally accepted in both polygraph analysis and in statement analysis. That is the reason for control questions in polygraphs, to establish the baseline. His baseline, when talking about things that are not crucial, includes frequent self-correction, therefore the self-correction observed in various statements about crucial events is not indicative of lying. Because it is same as the baseline. To find indications of lying requires finding differences from the baseline. MOO

 

[The Apparition]

The Apparition - you're definitely on my list of "Websleuthers I would love to sit in a pub with all afternoon"
:lol:

PS this is not an actual list in case any of you think I'm weird, it's in my head....

Why thank you. It would be a blast if we could have a meet and greet, too bad it'd be a logistics nightmare.

I certainly don't think you're weird, if you had said your on my list of people who's skin I'd like to wear that might be a little awkward.

 

[bluesneakers]

Why thank you. It would be a blast if we could have a meet and greet, too bad it'd be a logistics nightmare.

I certainly don't think you're weird, if you had said your on my list of people who's skin I'd like to wear that might be a little awkward.

It puts the lotion on its skin.

 

[desert-blue]

Are you saying you established Vs baseline by listening to the first video? That's not a baseline. Did you hear him speaking before this video? If so, how many times? Links?

You disproved your own statement. You said a baseline must be established before a person is under pressure to lie. Are you saying you know he was telling the truth in the video? No, this is NOT a baseline.
You have diagnosed him with dyslexia because you have it? Wow. I'm a special ed. teacher and gosh, I didn't know all you had to do was listen to a person speaking for a bit, and then you would know! All that data, and standardized testing, and all the time I just needed to listen to a student speak! The informal definition of dyslexia is extreme difficulty learning to read. Saying that if a person says had instead of has is dyslexia?

The truth is that J and V are two crappy excuses for parents who have been named suspects by LE in the possible homicide of their child.

Making excuses for them? What a horrible way to deny little Deorr, to desert him, and disrespect him.

JMO

OT: Cover Me Cagney, was it you who asked me to expand what I posted a few months ago about my trip to Leadore? Or was it another poster.

And, does anyone know how much it pays to go on internet forums and test the waters for possible defense arguments? Of course I don't think anyone here is doing that.

ReadySet, I'd be interested in hearing more about your trip to Leadore. Has it affected your thoughts on the case?

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