ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[Elainera]

I agree that the "4 minutes" comment can be discounted. In fact, anything said by anyone who wasn't at the campsite can only be repeating what s/he has been told, so most of that is probably not reliable, either.

Strangely, when we didn't know who the "friend" was, my first impulse was that ggp had glaucoma and the friend provided his "medication". After watching this video, I think my gut was pretty darn close! From what another poster said (sorry, no link, but please jump in) it sounds like JM was ggp's care giver, which makes sense why they would take him camping in his condition - it was an "outing" with his granddaughter/nurse's aide and her family. He was not along to provide child care, even for a minute, as he needed some degree of care himself.

It doesn't look like ggp or IR would be capable of keeping track of a toddler or springing into action (chasing or calling out to the baby or parents) if Deorr took off. This is such a different picture than I had in my mind when Deorr's disappearance was first made public. Regardless of the timeline, I can't wrap my mind around how/why anyone would leave an awake 2 year-old with these people. If he was sleeping in the truck cab, or somehow corralled, it would make more sense, but even then, the parents had never met IR before, so they had no idea how he would deal with a cranky or frightened child.

In their interview, why did they not mention the friend even once - it was as if he wasn't even there (unless I missed it). If JM was ggp's caretaker, I would think he rode to camp with them. Did IR meet them there in his own vehicle? Meet them there with ggp? Who went to the store? Does "as a family" include ggp or did he stay with IR? Did the store clerk see JM when she saw the dirty little boy and the man with the black truck? I'm assuming by now the clerk has been shown a photo lineup and identified the man as Deorr, Sr., IR or neither. If it was a false alarm, why hasn't that been released as with the Walmart reporting? What time did the first LE and S&R arrive? Before or after 6 pm? Was the Kunz' black truck there? How soon did the dogs arrive?

So many questions. Hoping someone here knows the answers. TIA.

I have no answers! Lol!

But I totally agree with the sentence I bolded. I thought the same thing.

 

[rkf]

Also, for those with more experience sleuthing here (if you could please, provide a few examples I would like to search it myself thank you!):

How common is for LE to label the parents of a missing child as "persons of interest" and divulge it to the media?.

And are the other people who were in the area of the campsite POIs? It's a bit confusing because when the sheriff said they reinterviewed everyone who was there, I wasn't sure if that meant the 4 adults we know about, or others that were in the area that these 4 didn't know about at the time.

 

[Dee10]

Sometimes after a case is finished I will re-look at what LE has said in press conferences. In recent years, they won't call anyone a 'suspect' unless someone goes on the run or just before an arrest & really if someone is cooperating why would they? LE seem to have their own language that comes off as ambiguous IMO that you could take what was said in various ways. I find it very helpful to listen to what they say with a very open mind, but watch what they are doing, who they are talking to, what they are not doing & so forth. Unfortunately, there are no press conference in DeOrr's case and that can happen if they don't need or want the public's help. So you have to ask why is that???

There is no doubt in my mind they are working very hard to solve this mystery & find DeOrr. One thing I see lacking is FBI involvement (that we know of) so it doesn't seem they are leaning towards an abduction or the CARD team would have been called in due to DeOrr's age IMO.

 

[rkf]

Once again I want to post this video as we have people that weren't here for thread 1; the parents were 50 yards away and within sight of the camp.
A closer look: the campground where Deorr Kunz disappeared Updated at 5:56 pm, July 15th, 2015 By: Nate Eaton

As far as the interview with the family friend; Nate Eaton has been trying to interview him since DeOrr went missing. I'm surprise he popped his head out to say as much as he did because he knows people will have a field day with anything he says.
Family Friend at Campsite: Deorr Kunz "Just Disappeared"

Also want to say that sarx has said that SAR dogs are as good as their handlers. We do not know the find track record of the dogs brought out

I'm surprised that after days of Eaton knocking on his door, IR decided that that was the time he would answer it. He was able to ignore the knocking before, but chose to answer it unclothed and unkempt, apparently still asleep or on something.

 

[teeandcee]

Here is another question I have. Why would the sheriff call him "Grandpa"? Is it possible the Sheriff is related to this family?

A lot of people refer to grandparents in this way in my world. I call my husband's grandma "Grandma" even though she's not my grandma. His aunt named Barbara is called Aunt Barbara by everyone including me. I think of it as her name. Everyone I know does this. My mom called her mother "Granny" because we all called her Granny. It was her name.

 

[suzet]

I agree that the "4 minutes" comment can be discounted. In fact, anything said by anyone who wasn't at the campsite can only be repeating what s/he has been told, so most of that is probably not reliable, either.

*snipped by me*

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[rkf]

I don't disagree, although Deorr is nearly three.

His birthday is December 30th, so he would be 2 1/2.

 

[LookingForClues]

I've been thinking about the store clerk and the fact that she hasn't done a media interview but has provided LE with a statement that they are not releasing. The only reason I can think of for the wall between her and MSM / the public is that she provided LE with some vital piece of evidence/information that they are keeping close to their chests in preparation for when they will need it to form a case against the guilty party...

Or, LE confirmed that the sighting she reported wasn't DeOrr. Perhaps they showed her pictures and she said, "Ooops, my bad." And so her report wasn't a lead after all.

It's just so hard to know where this whole investigation is going, isn't it? :gaah:

 

[Purplepixii]

Or, LE confirmed that the sighting she reported wasn't DeOrr. Perhaps they showed her pictures and she said, "Ooops, my bad." And so her report wasn't a lead after all.

It's just so hard to know where this whole investigation is going, isn't it? :gaah:

You might be right but I would have thought that if that were true LE would have said so in order to eliminate her involvement in this case. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

I agree that the "4 minutes" comment can be discounted. In fact, anything said by anyone who wasn't at the campsite can only be repeating what s/he has been told, so most of that is probably not reliable, either.

Strangely, when we didn't know who the "friend" was, my first impulse was that ggp had glaucoma and the friend provided his "medication". After watching this video, I think my gut was pretty darn close! From what another poster said (sorry, no link, but please jump in) it sounds like JM was ggp's care giver, which makes sense why they would take him camping in his condition - it was an "outing" with his granddaughter/nurse's aide and her family. He was not along to provide child care, even for a minute, as he needed some degree of care himself.

It doesn't look like ggp or IR would be capable of keeping track of a toddler or springing into action (chasing or calling out to the baby or parents) if Deorr took off. This is such a different picture than I had in my mind when Deorr's disappearance was first made public. Regardless of the timeline, I can't wrap my mind around how/why anyone would leave an awake 2 year-old with these people. If he was sleeping in the truck cab, or somehow corralled, it would make more sense, but even then, the parents had never met IR before, so they had no idea how he would deal with a cranky or frightened child.

In their interview, why did they not mention the friend even once - it was as if he wasn't even there (unless I missed it). If JM was ggp's caretaker, I would think he rode to camp with them. Did IR meet them there in his own vehicle? Meet them there with ggp? Who went to the store? Does "as a family" include ggp or did he stay with IR? Did the store clerk see JM when she saw the dirty little boy and the man with the black truck? I'm assuming by now the clerk has been shown a photo lineup and identified the man as Deorr, Sr., IR or neither. If it was a false alarm, why hasn't that been released as with the Walmart reporting? What time did the first LE and S&R arrive? Before or after 6 pm? Was the Kunz' black truck there? How soon did the dogs arrive?

So many questions. Hoping someone here knows the answers. TIA.

Maybe it was an attempt to avoid exactly what happened - reporters, rumours, digging into his past, and accusations. Though I don't know why they might think it would work. Just a thought.

 

[SleuthMom]

The way the news has come out is terribly confusing.

Here is another question I have. Why would the sheriff call him "Grandpa"? Is it possible the Sheriff is related to this family?

Its unusual to me that he would say that in an interview. I know we do it here because we did not have names of people at first but for LE to reference people you would think they would reference their name with Sr or something like that.


“Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s (been) a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/

Small town.

 

[LookingForClues]

I agree that the "4 minutes" comment can be discounted. In fact, anything said by anyone who wasn't at the campsite can only be repeating what s/he has been told, so most of that is probably not reliable, either.

Strangely, when we didn't know who the "friend" was, my first impulse was that ggp had glaucoma and the friend provided his "medication". After watching this video, I think my gut was pretty darn close! From what another poster said (sorry, no link, but please jump in) it sounds like JM was ggp's care giver, which makes sense why they would take him camping in his condition - it was an "outing" with his granddaughter/nurse's aide and her family. He was not along to provide child care, even for a minute, as he needed some degree of care himself.

It doesn't look like ggp or IR would be capable of keeping track of a toddler or springing into action (chasing or calling out to the baby or parents) if Deorr took off. This is such a different picture than I had in my mind when Deorr's disappearance was first made public. Regardless of the timeline, I can't wrap my mind around how/why anyone would leave an awake 2 year-old with these people. If he was sleeping in the truck cab, or somehow corralled, it would make more sense, but even then, the parents had never met IR before, so they had no idea how he would deal with a cranky or frightened child.

In their interview, why did they not mention the friend even once - it was as if he wasn't even there (unless I missed it). If JM was ggp's caretaker, I would think he rode to camp with them. Did IR meet them there in his own vehicle? Meet them there with ggp? Who went to the store? Does "as a family" include ggp or did he stay with IR? Did the store clerk see JM when she saw the dirty little boy and the man with the black truck? I'm assuming by now the clerk has been shown a photo lineup and identified the man as Deorr, Sr., IR or neither. If it was a false alarm, why hasn't that been released as with the Walmart reporting? What time did the first LE and S&R arrive? Before or after 6 pm? Was the Kunz' black truck there? How soon did the dogs arrive?

So many questions. Hoping someone here knows the answers. TIA.

I believe that the "source" for Jessica being her grandpa's caregiver came from social media and we have no proof that this is true. Does anyone know whether this has been confirmed by an approved source? TIA

 

[rkf]

I just wanted to link some of the hunting info that I found on Idaho F&G. Based on the map, I believe that they were camping in unit 37.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/ifwis/huntplanner/mapcenter/

The most recent statistics available, that I could find, on lion hunts in Idaho is from 2012. It indicates one lion was taken in unit 37 that year. Previous years also show one or no lions taken in that unit.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/ifwis/huntplanner/stats.aspx?season=general&game=lion&yr=2012#lion

So room for another one to move in after 2012. I still think mountain lion attack is one of the top possibilities. Would explain how he could "just disappear". Little Deorr would have been vulnerable from the moment his parents left him. JMO

 

[Elainera]

I'm surprised that after days of Eaton knocking on his door, IR decided that that was the time he would answer it. He was able to ignore the knocking before, but chose to answer it unclothed and unkempt, apparently still asleep or on something.

Maybe someone else who lives with him told him to open the door and say something so the reporters would finally go away. I had this thought because he did not look nor behave like someone who wanted to speak to reporters at all.

 

[SleuthMom]

Or, LE confirmed that the sighting she reported wasn't DeOrr. Perhaps they showed her pictures and she said, "Ooops, my bad." And so her report wasn't a lead after all.

It's just so hard to know where this whole investigation is going, isn't it? :gaah:

Do you have a link for that? Thanks. I know they confirmed the sighting at Walmart wasn't DeOrr but I wasn't aware LE confirmed that the sighting at the convenience store by the store clerk wasn't DeOrr.

 

[rkf]

There really was a lot of mountain lion discussion in the earlier threads. I think it is VERY, VERY unlikely. I have already stated my reasons. The chances being killed by a mountain lion is something like 1 in 30 million, whereas the likelihood of dying by drowning is 1 in 1,113.

Here are some statistics on the likelihood of dying for various reasons. The chance of dying from a predator attack are so low, they are not even on the chart. : http://www.nsc.org/learn/safety-knowledge/Pages/injury-facts-chart.aspx

Furthermore, the increase in mountain lion sightings and attacks is mostly in California, where it is much more heavily populated than Idaho. I have read some estimates that there are only 2,000 mountain lions in all of Idaho. Idaho has so much raw wilderness land and natural prey that cougars do not need to interact with humans, or, prey on small children.

Is that 1 in 30 million in the world? In the US? Is it higher in India, where children are often unattended, herding goats or fetching water? What are the statistics on stranger abduction? I know they're low. Are they lower than an unattended child being attacked by a mountain lion in the wilderness? TIA.

ETA: I wonder if it's that cougars don't need to prey on small children or that given the way children are generally raised in our culture in modern times, that they don't often get the opportunity to do so. We visited a game preserve many years ago when my youngest son was 2. There were cheetahs, hand raised from birth, that the game wardens would walk on "leashes" at dusk. One day we walked out of our tent just as a cheetah was being walked by. The cat immediately went into "hunting" mode. We were forcefully ordered to get our 2 year-old back in the tent. It was absolutely incredible. This cheetah wasn't even entirely a wild animal, although they did their best to maintain a wild environment for it (the walking on the leash is what makes me think this...) but seeing how it reacted from instinct upon seeing my small child was chilling. I have no doubt that IF a mountain lion was in the area, it could have picked up DeOrr without anyone hearing or seeing a thing.

EATA: That list is of "selected" causes of death, including the most common. I didn't see where it said wild animal attacks were left off because they are so uncommon, although that may be so.

 

[wondering25]

I would like to know what they had for gear and provisions.. Ice chest or cooler? Tents.. fishing rods.. a gun to kill game like squirrels or possum to eat? i mean did it look like they were equipped for a several day stay to live off the land or where they bringing food from the general store already prepared? Eggs? Milk for the baby? bread, peanut butter.. i have never camped. To me, slow room service is camping..

 

[Elainera]

So room for another one to move in after 2012. I still think mountain lion attack is one of the top possibilities. Would explain how he could "just disappear". Little Deorr would have been vulnerable from the moment his parents left him. JMO

Exactly. A lion would have immediately understood that the two men left with the boy are not strong or fast enough to stop him.

 

[Elainera]

Do you have a link for that? Thanks. I know they confirmed the sighting at Walmart wasn't DeOrr but I wasn't aware LE confirmed that the sighting at the convenience store by the store clerk wasn't DeOrr.

I think LookingForClues meant that this was a possibility.

 

[Elainera]

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