ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[rkf]

I wish Jessica could've finished what she was saying...

Yeah. Sounds like JM thought the store clerk's siting was a rumor, but DK confirmed it, but disagreed on the time. Odd. I wouldn't even think of a false sighting as a rumor, but as people trying/hoping to see something that would help find baby DeOrr. JMO.

 

[flourish]

I saw a photo of DeOrr, Sr. smoking, but it is from February.

Hmm. That's good to know. Just for my own curiosity about the family...culture. Just to be clear, I'm not dissing smokers, I'm one too (shame).

 

[bessie]

Not sure what do you mean by "we don't contact"? I do not think anyone could tell another person here who they can or can't contact outside of this site.
<modsnip>

You're free to contact anyone you choose. You just can't post about it here.

 

[SleuthMom]

REMINDER: Websleuths does not condone its members becoming personally involved in cases by initiating contact with family members, law enforcement, or the media. This does not preclude responding to a request for volunteers, or utilizing proper channels to report valid information, i.e., "a tip", to law enforcement.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...iquette-amp-Information&p=8364858#post8364858

Thanks for the information. Things surely changed since 2007, wow.

 

[rkf]

Dad drives a truck for a living? Does anyone remember in the long video interview that dad saying something to the effect that the rumors were saying his boss wanted him back at work or something about his boss.. what did that have to do with anything? i thought that was out of context.. anyone? I cant find the video..

Maybe to explain the crowd funding sites?

 

[SleuthMom]

You're free to contact anyone you choose. You just can't post about it here.

I see, thanks again for the information.

 

[rkf]

But if you look at harvest numbers for other units, there's one with 50 lions harvested in 2012, another with 41, multiple with 20+. The units covering and surrounding where this child disappeared have little to no lions harvested. It just doesn't appear to be a hotbed of mountain lion activity.

Are the same number of mountain lion hunts launched in every area? Trying to figure out if it's an absence of cats, or an absence of hunters. TIA.

 

[blefuscu]

Sorry, what do the parents smoking have to do with anything?

And I don't buy that the man and child seen at the store were dad and lil DeOrr. How is dad meant to hide a wriggly, active, noisy 2.5 year old for around 5 hours, then in the middle of a search disappear to the store, with a wailing child and not be noticed by those at the campsite searching? That's just impossible really. Ok the woman may have seen a man and a kid in the store, but how many crying 2.5 year old blond boys are in Idaho? I reckon quite a few. Same with black pick up trucks. We've had nothing confirming that the man or the child were dad and DeOrr, and if they had been then LE would have been pushing dad for an explanation.

 

[white rabbit]

echoing Bessie's post 343...you can sleuth all you want, folks. just don't post it. sleuth does not equal post. you have the right (obligation, privilege and logic) to remain silent.

that said...as Bessie knows this isn't my strongest quality...

the black truck "is a problem". that's a problem, to the rabbit...the car you drive nor a sighting of it in the wilderness amongst many vehicles of the same color should never "be a problem"...

whatever. I'm just going over and over the same crap without toilet paper...

 

[flourish]

Sorry, what do the parents smoking have to do with anything?

And I don't buy that the man and child seen at the store were dad and lil DeOrr. How is dad meant to hide a wriggly, active, noisy 2.5 year old for around 5 hours, then in the middle of a search disappear to the store, with a wailing child and not be noticed by those at the campsite searching? That's just impossible really. Ok the woman may have seen a man and a kid in the store, but how many crying 2.5 year old blond boys are in Idaho? I reckon quite a few. Same with black pick up trucks. We've had nothing confirming that the man or the child were dad and DeOrr, and if they had been then LE would have been pushing dad for an explanation.

Smoking has only to do with two things here. 1) someone asked about it in regards to the dogs and scent. 2) it has cultural significance, particularly in that geographical location.

 

[desert-blue]

https://soundcloud.com/idaho-statesman/911-call-deorr-kunz-missing-lemhi-county

I read awhile back that you can hear the dad (whose first name is Vernal - his middle name is Deorr) in the background of Jessica's 911 call which suggests he may have been near her when he made his 911 call. I just listened to Jessica's 911 call again and at 2:45, I can hear another operator ask, "What's your name? Vernal?" And then she tells him that they'll hurry and she'll call if they have any more questions. At 2:57, the original operator then asks Jessica if her husband also called and she never answers and right after that it seems like the audio has been cut/edited because it then picks up mid-sentence with Jessica talking about how they can't find him at the campground. She didn't answer the question about whether her husband called. Starting earlier around 2:24, I can hear a male voice but I can't tell if it's coming from the 911 call center or through Jessica's phone and I can't make out what he is saying. Has anyone else noticed or heard this?

 

[rkf]

Jessica's great grandfather?

Am I allowed to make a little graphic with family members and how they're related? It can be confusing, but I don't want to go to all the effort to construct a mini family tree if it's against TOS.

 

[rkf]

BBM

My impression is they are trying very hard to keep the name of Jessica's grandpa (little DeOrr's great-grandpa) out of the news, most likely because of his failing health and their belief that he has no involvement in little DeOrr's disappearance. I have no idea whether the sheriff is related, I suppose he could be, but that didn't even enter my mind when I was listening to the sheriff. I just think he's using the generic term to keep the name private. And I think he's using "grandpa" instead of "great-grandpa" because Jessica would refer to him as grandpa, and so the sheriff is using that nomenclature too.

If ggp is as infirm as we're being led to believe, why the heck does it matter if LE releases his name? Doesn't sound like MSM would bother him, because he's not capable of giving a coherent interview. (Nevermind IR - who woulda thunk it?) I doubt ggp is staying up all night surfing SM and there doesn't seem to be a tremendous amount of coverage in MSM - perhaps way more in Idaho. I don't understand why LE is protecting ggp's identity if they are saying he is not a suspect because he couldn't be involved in DeOrr's disappearance, no matter how it happened, due to his poor health. From what's been said, it sounds like ggp wouldn't even know if his name was released or not. It's hard to know if ggp is that ill or if LE and others are using illness as a way to protect him from suspicion. Either way, I believe LE when they say he's not a suspect in any way, so why the secrecy as to his identity? I don't understand it.

P.S. After seeing the IR video, I can see why they wanted to keep his name away from the public.

 

[teeandcee]

Okayyyy, I see your point. It feels like we're all trying to converse without the use of nouns.

My fault for not being clear in my post. I was referring to physical evidence because people keep bringing it up regarding a predator attack. My (unclear) point was there's no more physical evidence to support or discredit any one theory over another.

Kidnapping: No tire tracks, no footprints, no boots, no screaming child.
Water: No body so far, no boots or clothing snagged.
Land: No body so far, no boots, nothing with the drones, no smell of decomp (this is important IMO).
Animal Predator: No blood, no paw prints, no freshly covered cache, nothing with the drones, no boots.
Human Predator: No smell of decomp, no footprints, no freshly dug grave, nothing with the drones, no body, no boots.

Did I mention the boots??? People keep bringing them up, but they've vanished into thin air no matter what happened to him.

1. DeOrr Kunz Jr. is 2 1/2 years old.
2. He was reported to be missing from a campsite where his Great Grandfather, IR, his father, and mother were at the time.
3. Mother, Jessica Mitchell, stated he had been missing an hour when the 911 call was placed.
4. Sheriff's office responded with help from other agencies to search for DeOrr.
5. After several searches over the same area, the Sheriff declares there is not a trace of DeOrr in or near the campgrounds or water.
6. Searches are scaled back and other avenues of investigation are pursued including the comment from the Sheriff about having the drones take aerial shots to possibly be used later in court.
7. Mom and dad blame GGF and friend.
8. GGF and friend blame mom and dad.
9. There are conflicting statements, but we can't get into those.
10. DeOrr's blanket he never went anywhere without was in the truck.

Then there are many things we cannot discuss at this time, but will come into play later.

 

[rkf]

A lot of people refer to grandparents in this way in my world. I call my husband's grandma "Grandma" even though she's not my grandma. His aunt named Barbara is called Aunt Barbara by everyone including me. I think of it as her name. Everyone I know does this. My mom called her mother "Granny" because we all called her Granny. It was her name.

But they're your relatives, even if not by blood. It would be weird if you were calling your local sheriff's grandmother "Grandma". JMO

 

[teeandcee]

Smoking has only to do with two things here. 1) someone asked about it in regards to the dogs and scent. 2) it has cultural significance, particularly in that geographical location.

Really? Interesting. Will you elaborate?

But they're your relatives, even if not by blood. It would be weird if you were calling your local sheriff's grandmother "Grandma". JMO

Yeah, I realized that after I posted, lol. I've heard others do it with non-relatives though. Maybe it's a small town thing like someone pointed out.

 

[Cardinal47]

Today I keep thinking of why they would drive to the campsite and then turn around and drive two hours back and forth to the store. Whatever would they need so badly to make that long trip on that bad road.

They knew they were going camping so I would think they would be prepared.

Also I keep wondering if they had a trailer or a tent. Trailer camping seems to come equiped with everything one would need. That plus a cooler full of ice and cold things.

What would do you think would take them on that long distance drive to the store right after passing how many stores on the drive to the campsite???

Cigarettes..they would surely have a supply.
Lady things...women know how to make due.
Food stuffs...they knew they were camping.
Camping stuff...again they knew they were camping.
Gas...they had to have plenty to make that two hour trip.

Why did they leave just after arriving?

 

[rkf]

Or, LE confirmed that the sighting she reported wasn't DeOrr. Perhaps they showed her pictures and she said, "Ooops, my bad." And so her report wasn't a lead after all.

It's just so hard to know where this whole investigation is going, isn't it? :gaah:

Why wouldn't they announce that, though? I only think they would because they announced the Walmart sighting was a "false alarm". If they hadn't told MSM about that one, I would think they aren't bothering to tell when a sighting doesn't pan out. But the Leadore store is a big one and (I believe) the first one, with specific details and what could be significant timing. If they're going to tell MSM that a sighting was mistaken, I'd think they'd start with that one. Huge mystery to me, especially given the way it was addressed in the interview.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I don't disagree, although Deorr is nearly three.

He is NOT nearly 3. His birthday is December 30. He turned 2 1/2 on June 30, only 10 days before he disappeared. I have been so annoyed that his father referred to him as 3 and "nearly 3". I don't understand why he thought it was a good idea to make it seem like DeOrr was older than he really was. He's 2 1/2, lost in the woods - his helplessness needed to be emphasized!

 

[pepelepolecat]

Is that 1 in 30 million in the world? In the US? Is it higher in India, where children are often unattended, herding goats or fetching water? What are the statistics on stranger abduction? I know they're low. Are they lower than an unattended child being attacked by a mountain lion in the wilderness? TIA.

ETA: I wonder if it's that cougars don't need to prey on small children or that given the way children are generally raised in our culture in modern times, that they don't often get the opportunity to do so. We visited a game preserve many years ago when my youngest son was 2. There were cheetahs, hand raised from birth, that the game wardens would walk on "leashes" at dusk. One day we walked out of our tent just as a cheetah was being walked by. The cat immediately went into "hunting" mode. We were forcefully ordered to get our 2 year-old back in the tent. It was absolutely incredible. This cheetah wasn't even entirely a wild animal, although they did their best to maintain a wild environment for it (the walking on the leash is what makes me think this...) but seeing how it reacted from instinct upon seeing my small child was chilling. I have no doubt that IF a mountain lion was in the area, it could have picked up DeOrr without anyone hearing or seeing a thing.

EATA: That list is of "selected" causes of death, including the most common. I didn't see where it said wild animal attacks were left off because they are so uncommon, although that may be so.

One in 600,000 or so is the risk of stranger abduction. https://www.ncjrs.gov/html/ojjdp/nismart/03/ns5.html