ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[rkf]

Maybe it was an attempt to avoid exactly what happened - reporters, rumours, digging into his past, and accusations. Though I don't know why they might think it would work. Just a thought.

If my child was missing, the last thing on my mind would be protecting the reputation of my grandfather's friend, who I'd never even met before the day my son disappeared. In fact, I would do whatever I could to make sure he was thoroughly investigated and provided absolutely every smidgen of information he possibly could to LE. (Of course, it's likely he was cooperating, but I wouldn't make any extra effort to protect this virtual stranger's identity.) It seems like telling a story about how your child disappeared without including 25% of the adults there at the time would take extra effort. JMO.

 

[starfire]

Sorry, what do the parents smoking have to do with anything?

And I don't buy that the man and child seen at the store were dad and lil DeOrr. How is dad meant to hide a wriggly, active, noisy 2.5 year old for around 5 hours, then in the middle of a search disappear to the store, with a wailing child and not be noticed by those at the campsite searching? That's just impossible really. Ok the woman may have seen a man and a kid in the store, but how many crying 2.5 year old blond boys are in Idaho? I reckon quite a few. Same with black pick up trucks. We've had nothing confirming that the man or the child were dad and DeOrr, and if they had been then LE would have been pushing dad for an explanation.

That's exactly why I think it is very strange that the mom and dad totally brushed off this sighting and claimed it was them (6 or more hours earlier than the reported sighting), especially since they seemed very confident in the interview that little Deorr may have been abducted.

 

[Jackeee]

I would like to know what they had for gear and provisions.. Ice chest or cooler? Tents.. fishing rods.. a gun to kill game like squirrels or possum to eat? i mean did it look like they were equipped for a several day stay to live off the land or where they bringing food from the general store already prepared? Eggs? Milk for the baby? bread, peanut butter.. i have never camped. To me, slow room service is camping..

Thank you for that last line wondering25. (I don't know how to bold on my iPad).

The knot in my stomach from worry over baby Deorr eased up for a few seconds.

 

[teeandcee]

Only low man in lion dominance would inherit that bit of ground! I recently spoke to a FWP guy who specializes in human/predator conflict (ie "I have a bear in my garage" or "That lion is back on my porch again") and he said that if he's sees a big, healthy male roaming a rural neighborhood at night, he doesn't give it much thought unless he gets follow up complaints. If, however, the lion he sees is young and skinny, he almost always elects to "remove" the animal because they are far more dangerous..

Yes, exactly what I was getting at with the wolf pack situation. That's very interesting about the FWP guy, and it follows what I've learned (I'll always trust life experience over book learning anyway). It's the same for bears. The young fresh-on-their-own ones (males I think) are the most likely to get into trouble whether out of curiosity or hunger.

A lot of the "neighborhood lion" videos on YouTube are of young lions as well. Just like young adult domestic cats, it's easy to see they're young and in search mode. I once read that the most dangerous creature on earth is a young human male. It seems lions/bears follow this pattern too and probably for similar reasons.

 

[rkf]

Exactly. A lion would have immediately understood that the two men left with the boy are not strong or fast enough to stop him.

Or he could have toddled far enough away from the men that the lion had easy access. I'm now on the fence about the mountain lion because of other posts. It seems like it could happen, even if it's unlikely. But would there be some evidence? Seems to be dispute about that amongst several very knowledgeable people. If so, why wasn't it detected? Except for drowning, isn't every outcome we're allowed to discuss very unlikely?

 

[bessie]

Am I allowed to make a little graphic with family members and how they're related? It can be confusing, but I don't want to go to all the effort to construct a mini family tree if it's against TOS.

That should be fine as long as you don't add names not already mentioned in the media.

 

[CDB]

I asked this question of Sarx in the last thread...and honestly I can not remember what they told me :blushing:... I cant go and look right now, but if you seach for Sarx in the last thread Im sure you will find it...

I do not know if it is standard but the linked article describes training the dogs to return to source if they lose the scent. This may be a unique training procedure for this group, but it does seem like it is something that some dogs are trained.

"Going to Source
The wall is very good for teaching this, because the dog learns from the beginning the reward object always comes from source, or the hole which contains the target odor."

***Though please not the article also talks about how easily incorrect lead handling can also take a dog off scent.

"Leash control
Like footwork it is critical to not key the dog with the leash or unknowingly correct him/her by jerking them around with the leash. These can be accidental type corrections, but to the dog it is still a correction no matter how subtle and it can lead to problems, such as the dog walking odor, shutting down or others."

www.theapca.com/articleloader.php?page=Prey Drive

 

[takeitfromme412]

Wolves are vey fearful of humans. Even lil ones. Unlike domestic dogs that can get into what is called mob-mentality, wolves are very organized hunters with a highly organized hierarchy. Wolves are not the culprit in DeOrr's disappearance. A coyote more likely, but would leave a mess (sorry to be graphic). Mountain lion, more plausible, but then again, no trace left?? I do not think so..... more like a human is more capable of leaving no trace behind. seen many cases like that.

 

[Cardinal47]

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman did confirm to EastIdahoNews.com that Reinwand was at the campsite alongside DeOrr's parents, when the boy went missing.

Bowerman also confirmed that Reinwand, as well as the boy's parents Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz are persons of interest in the case because they were at the scene. They are not being called suspects at this time.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...-search-deorr-kuna-persons-interest/30799181/

Is this something new?

 

[flourish]

[/B]

Really? Interesting. Will you elaborate?



Yeah, I realized that after I posted, lol. I've heard others do it with non-relatives though. Maybe it's a small town thing like someone pointed out.

I'm sorry I shouldn't have even said anything.

I grew up around there. The predominant religion in the area has a big impact on the community culture there, arguably an impact more intensely than other places and with other religions. In that culture there are cues you're trained to notice starting from around oh birth, which tell you about whether or not someone is a church and/or their ummm standing in the church sorta?

It has nothing to do with DeOrr per se I was just thinking in terms of how people may or may not view the parents?

 

[bluesneakers]

If my child was missing, the last thing on my mind would be protecting the reputation of my grandfather's friend, who I'd never even met before the day my son disappeared. In fact, I would do whatever I could to make sure he was thoroughly investigated and provided absolutely every smidgen of information he possibly could to LE. (Of course, it's likely he was cooperating, but I wouldn't make any extra effort to protect this virtual stranger's identity.) It seems like telling a story about how your child disappeared without including 25% of the adults there at the time would take extra effort. JMO.

We don't know whether or not he told LE his name. I'm sure they knew and were able to investigate him. And remember they might not have known him before the trip but he was their grandfather's friend. I can see it happening. If it were me I'm not sure I would tell the public anything other than what would help them search for my child. Giving the friend's name might even detract from search efforts, which in this case, imo, it came very close to doing. What if everyone digging into his past and gossiping about him had done something more constructive instead?

Jmo, etc.

 

[Lizzzard]

Today I keep thinking of why they would drive to the campsite and then turn around and drive two hours back and forth to the store. Whatever would they need so badly to make that long trip on that bad road.

They knew they were going camping so I would think they would be prepared.

Also I keep wondering if they had a trailer or a tent. Trailer camping seems to come equiped with everything one would need. That plus a cooler full of ice and cold things.

What would do you think would take them on that long distance drive to the store right after passing how many stores on the drive to the campsite???

Cigarettes..they would surely have a supply.
Lady things...women know how to make due.
Food stuffs...they knew they were camping.
Camping stuff...again they knew they were camping.
Gas...they had to have plenty to make that two hour trip.

Why did they leave just after arriving?

Beer? Maybe they didn't want to share (and maybe it wasn't included in the "cold things" you mention above) so they got some on their own, kind of on the sly? Or rolling papers, as someone else suggested earlier and they wanted to be discreet so they went on their own. I dunno. I have been wondering this too because in the interview with DK and JM it sounds like DK started to say something then caught himself. DK: As a family we went down to get some, to get a few things.

Anytime I have been travelling with others who were in separate vehicles, we always have stopped at the same places for gas, etc. Maybe they were buying something that they didn't want the others to know about and that's why they didn't get it, whatever "it" is, on the way in? Just throwing guesses out there..

 

[teeandcee]

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman did confirm to EastIdahoNews.com that Reinwand was at the campsite alongside DeOrr's parents, when the boy went missing.

Thank you! I was just wondering if this was true or I was remembering wrong. I was going to ask but never got around to it.

 

[SleuthMom]

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman did confirm to EastIdahoNews.com that Reinwand was at the campsite alongside DeOrr's parents, when the boy went missing.

Bowerman also confirmed that Reinwand, as well as the boy's parents Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz are persons of interest in the case because they were at the scene. They are not being called suspects at this time.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...-search-deorr-kuna-persons-interest/30799181/

Is this something new?

Some parts from the article:

The boy's mother confirmed to KTVB the name of the friend. He is 35-year-old Isaac Reinwand.

Bowerman also confirmed that Reinwand, as well as the boy's parents Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz are persons of interest in the case because they were at the scene. They are not being called suspects at this time.

 

[Jackeee]

Today I keep thinking of why they would drive to the campsite and then turn around and drive two hours back and forth to the store. Whatever would they need so badly to make that long trip on that bad road.

They knew they were going camping so I would think they would be prepared.

Also I keep wondering if they had a trailer or a tent. Trailer camping seems to come equiped with everything one would need. That plus a cooler full of ice and cold things.

What would do you think would take them on that long distance drive to the store right after passing how many stores on the drive to the campsite???

Cigarettes..they would surely have a supply.
Lady things...women know how to make due.
Food stuffs...they knew they were camping.
Camping stuff...again they knew they were camping.
Gas...they had to have plenty to make that two hour trip.

Why did they leave just after arriving?

Thanks honeybun. I expressed my feelings about this earlier and was shot down. Even though I acknowledged that you always forget something, it didn't make sense to me that after a 2 1/2 hour drive to the campsite, that all 3 would go back to a store 40 minutes away for supplies. The rough roads and a tired, crying baby. Made no sense to me. Why didn't just one of them go?

 

[teeandcee]

I'm sorry I shouldn't have even said anything.

I grew up around there. The predominant religion in the area has a big impact on the community culture there, arguably an impact more intensely than other places and with other religions. In that culture there are cues you're trained to notice starting from around oh birth, which tell you about whether or not someone is a church and/or their ummm standing in the church sorta?

It has nothing to do with DeOrr per se I was just thinking in terms of how people may or may not view the parents?

Well, now, that is fascinating! Don't you just hate it when someone's curiosity brings attention to something you wish you hadn't said??

 

[bluesneakers]

Today I keep thinking of why they would drive to the campsite and then turn around and drive two hours back and forth to the store. Whatever would they need so badly to make that long trip on that bad road.

They knew they were going camping so I would think they would be prepared.

Also I keep wondering if they had a trailer or a tent. Trailer camping seems to come equiped with everything one would need. That plus a cooler full of ice and cold things.

What would do you think would take them on that long distance drive to the store right after passing how many stores on the drive to the campsite???

Cigarettes..they would surely have a supply.
Lady things...women know how to make due.
Food stuffs...they knew they were camping.
Camping stuff...again they knew they were camping.
Gas...they had to have plenty to make that two hour trip.

Why did they leave just after arriving?

Tampons (surprise periods happen)
Ice (maybe what they had melted before they got there)
First aid stuff like bandaids or bactine (easy to overlook and if you need it you need it right away)
Insect repellant (didn't think they'd need it, got there and got bitten)
Bait?


If they were missing any camping stuff and discovered it when they got there I'm not sure the little store would carry it.

 

[ClaireNC]

Dad drives a truck for a living? Does anyone remember in the long video interview that dad saying something to the effect that the rumors were saying his boss wanted him back at work or something about his boss.. what did that have to do with anything? i thought that was out of context.. anyone? I cant find the video..

Here is the video: [video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video] There is a link to it in the Media thread.

Here is a rough transcription of the part where he talks about his company. They are discussing social media rumors...

D: We wanna get to that. Most of the biggest rumors that are going around is - I mean, I have heard everything from the - I mean, why you would make up a rumor that has to do with a three year old is - if you're not going to help, please, don't - if it's not helpful - it's -
J: Yeah.
D: This is a two, almost three year old we're talking about, please help us. But I've heard everything from my company won't let me come home off the road to look for my son - I was there the entire time, and my employer, four hours after my son went missing, has been up there day and night, has not slowed down - um, and that, that one bothered me, and then they just came, they got worse, and they got worse, and they got worse - but that's a handful of bad with a bunch of good. The amount of support is overwhelming, and it's good.

 

[Elainera]

I do not know if it is standard but the linked article describes training the dogs to return to source if they lose the scent. This may be a unique training procedure for this group, but it does seem like it is something that some dogs are trained.

"Going to Source
The wall is very good for teaching this, because the dog learns from the beginning the reward object always comes from source, or the hole which contains the target odor."

***Though please not the article also talks about how easily incorrect lead handling can also take a dog off scent.

"Leash control
Like footwork it is critical to not key the dog with the leash or unknowingly correct him/her by jerking them around with the leash. These can be accidental type corrections, but to the dog it is still a correction no matter how subtle and it can lead to problems, such as the dog walking odor, shutting down or others."

www.theapca.com/articleloader.php?page=Prey Drive

Interesting!

Do you know what "walking odor" and "shutting down" means in this scenario? Shutting down - I guess the dog stops searching? Walking odor, I have no clue.

 

[Cardinal47]

Tampons (surprise periods happen)
Ice (maybe what they had melted before they got there)
First aid stuff like bandaids or bactine (easy to overlook and if you need it you need it right away)
Insect repellant (didn't think they'd need it, got there and got bitten)
Bait?


If they were missing any camping stuff and discovered it when they got there I'm not sure the little store would carry it.

Thank you. I have surely thought of all that and decided a trip to the store so far away would not be needed.

And I remember pages ago we discussed they did pass a few stores on their way in.

I guess we would have to know what kind of campers they all were. Efficient or kind of loosy goosy.

I even thought maybe the GGP needed medicine or oxygen but I don't think they could get it at that little out in the middle of nowhere store.

Tampons and diapers could be...made if you were a true camper.

Bait is something purchased last minute but I don't think a two hour drive down that bumpy road would be worth it. A good fisherman would pick that up on the way in.

I just don't know. It seems they hardly arrived and then left for that store. It just keeps me thinking.