ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[Jules71]

I don't think JM's comment about something getting twisted was specifically about the EMT bag. It was about social media rumors in general. IMO

I think it was related specifically to the emt bag. The woman was pressing and saying it needed to be addressed and then the reporter said something about SM can be good but it can also be bad and JM said she didn't want it to get
twisted. JMO

<removed, question answered>

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[SleuthMom]

I've seen the criticism. There were also of posts about how many days had passed since the Find Deorr page was updated.

I've seen severe criticism with regards to very casual posts completely unrelated to DeOrr. It is a hard for people to digest but as I always say people grieve differently and handle stress in ways that we might find bizarre.

 

[rkf]

I would have days ago. Of course mine is already super duper private thanks in part to my super intrusive ex-employer!

But, no, really, as a bereaved mother of a victim of violence, I was criticized by random people for crying too much "hysterical, out of control, manipulative, obviously guilty of something" as well as not crying enough (cold, unfeeling, manipulative, obviously guilty of something).

For this poor mom, "why isn't she online? If that were my baby I'd be screaming from the rooftops" juxtaposed with "why is she on Facebook does she think her baby is just playing FarmVille in the woods? If that were my baby..."

You see how that works...

Everyone knows what they would do until it happens.

I absolutely agree with what you're saying. The difference is that at this point, little DeOrr's fate is unknown. Last report from the parents was that they believe he was kidnapped, and the only ongoing efforts I've seen to get his name and face out there have been through her FB page. Making her page private makes it appear that they no longer think he was kidnapped.

 

[rkf]

Going back to the EMT bag: Now that we know that GGP is in poor health it does not seem odd that a medical bag would be there. Jessica is trained as a nurse's aid, correct? So whether or not she is his caretaker on a regular basis, she would be trained to use its contents if necessary .

So the question that remains is why was it significant to mention it in regard to rumors in relation to social media? Especially when no one on WS has seen any of these SM rumors. --Unless the rumors were within the community itself and not on public SM sites.

I am intrigued by the mere mention of it in the interview along with what seemed to be deliberate ignoring of the question by mom and dad.

If ggp was in such bad shape that he needed a fully stocked EMT bag, why on earth would someone take him camping 2 1/2 hours from home? The longer this goes on, the more it seems like he is just a shell of a man, wheeled to the campsite, semi-comatose. I'm not saying that he wouldn't be able to enjoy the great outdoors in his condition, but it sounds like he could have been left in a chair at the end of his driveway and not known the difference. How incapacitated is ggp? It really makes a difference in how much this camping trip narrative makes sense.

 

[flourish]

I absolutely agree with what you're saying. The difference is that at this point, little DeOrr's fate is unknown. Last report from the parents was that they believe he was kidnapped, and the only ongoing efforts I've seen to get his name and face out there have been through her FB page. Making her page private makes it appear that they no longer think he was kidnapped.

Or perhaps she is trying to get some privacy. We don't know if she's involved with other groups and pages or not. But see? For every person saying the parents should stay off the Internet there's at least one person who disagrees. They are in a lose-lose and hopefully don't know or care what random people say.

I'm one of the folks who think the abduction theory was more hopeful parents than anything.

 

[rkf]

I've seen the criticism. There were also of posts about how many days had passed since the Find Deorr page was updated.

I wouldn't criticize her one way or the other. But if your only outlet for reaching the public about your kidnapped child is a FB page, someone (ideally not the poor mother) should be keeping it updated. JMO.

ETA: I thought someone else set up the Help Find Deorr page and was administering it.

 

[SleuthMom]

So your child's been kidnapped. The Help Find DeOrr page isn't updated, except to say that negative comments won't be tolerated. And the one page where you've been posting photos and asking people to share is now private?

I could understand why. Some people on Facebook are completely NUTS and they are behaving way off limits. Hence, my suggestion of the use of national media to get the kind of attention DeOrr's case needs. But they do not wish to be interviewed. What else can be done? *shrugs*

 

[SleuthMom]

If ggp was in such bad shape that he needed a fully stocked EMT bag, why on earth would someone take him camping 2 1/2 hours from home? The longer this goes on, the more it seems like he is just a shell of a man, wheeled to the campsite, semi-comatose. I'm not saying that he wouldn't be able to enjoy the great outdoors in his condition, but it sounds like he could have been left in a chair at the end of his driveway and not known the difference. How incapacitated is ggp? It really makes a difference in how much this camping trip narrative makes sense.

Was it determined that the EMT bag in question is great-grandpa's?

 

[Jules71]

I thought it was her mom, because she kept looking over there and looked over there when she was talking about how grateful she was for the support, and her mom coming within hours of her call. I thought it seemed like JM was going to talk about it, but DK interrupted her. Did anyone else notice that JM kept checking her phone during the interview? Also, the smile at 4:20. Please take a look and tell me I'm crazy.
[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

Thank you. I do see now that she looked over and acknowledged family. Maybe she told her family member something about an emt bag or about a rumor she saw on sm about an emt bag but she was told by LE not to talk about that, but her family member wasn't aware? Someone off screen was really trying to get her to talk about something so much that she even shook her head as if to say no and the reporter looked over. Wonder if that was all about the emt bag. Maybe they did have a bag and maybe the supplies had been taken out but the bag was missing? I think this is important. I also think the store is important.

I do see the smile and shake of her head (like she's saying no) when the reporter asked how they were holding up. I got the impression she was trying not to cry. But the more I watch it the more it looks like just a smile.

Btw, whenever I am out of breath from exercising, my kids ask me why I'm smiling. It's funny because smiling is the last thing I am doing! Lol.

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[rkf]

Or perhaps she is trying to get some privacy. We don't know if she's involved with other groups and pages or not. But see? For every person saying the parents should stay off the Internet there's at least one person who disagrees. They are in a lose-lose and hopefully don't know or care what random people say.

I'm one of the folks who think the abduction theory was more hopeful parents than anything.

I'm really not criticizing her for posting/not posting/making her page private/etc. I AM criticizing the incredibly ineffective means of communicating vital information to the public if a child has been kidnapped. I've said before, I wouldn't expect a young couple to know how to harness the power of SM or MSM, but there were people around them who could have/should have helped. The Center for Missing and Exploited Children had someone on the ground within a few days. How did they help this family, other than creating a "missing" poster with the wrong eye color? If DeOrr was kidnapped, he and his family have not been well-served by the professionals around them. If LE knew early on that DeOrr had not been kidnapped, then I'm going to be irritated that they played with our sympathies. Hopefully, if that's the case, it was for good reason.

 

[Cardinal47]

Well, we just returned from an 8-day tent camping trip with our 7-yr old grandson. I am super organized and make lists for my lists . I always take everything and anything we might need no matter where we travel. HOWEVER, we found OURSELVES driving to the nearest down shortly after we began setting up camp. I had asked my husband OVER and OVER again if we had enough tarps and ropes so we could make shelters over the picnic table and one over our cooking area, plus one for under the tent and one inside the tent. Hmmm, turns out that was not the case and we were short two tarps and several ropes, plus we needed worms for fishing. Oh, and we all went to town. I just don't find it at ALL unusual to find you need something, especially when you're camping with five people, ages 2-70.

I'm kind of curious. How far you had traeled to your campground and then how far the drive and road conditions were to the store?

Would you have driven 2 1/2 hours and then taken that bumpy trip to the store..40 minutes each way? Or would you do without.

I wonder was GGP or the friend from up that way that they went to pick them up?

I don't think they would go tor matches. With four adults there somebody had matches or they would use the lighter in the truck and then build a fire and use that for cigarettes.

The only thing I can imagine would be diapers but moms know when they are about out and could have stopped on the way in.

 

[rkf]

Was it determined that the EMT bag in question is great-grandpa's?

No, not at all. It was just suggested here that maybe the EMT bag was for him and also that maybe they needed something for it and that's why they returned to the store. Just theories, but they all seem to put ggp in such a fragile state that I would be afraid to take him down that 40 minute bumpy road. JMO.

 

[crh8]

They have pretty thick accents..the father says crick instead of creek. Is it possible the person out of view said empty bag and not emt bag?

 

[Wendy101]

Exactly. And dad's reply, "Here's the trouble - my pick-up truck's black." Seems like a weird response to me.

Right -so Dad does not think the abductor can have a black pick-up? I totally agree..weird response..

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Possibly. Would depend on my mood, energy level, and how badly I might need something from the store.

What I'd like to know is what difference does it make if they drove back to the store? How does that figure into a nefarious plot?

Or is the point, that they did NOT drive to the store shortly after arriving, so the time offered by the dad is false. Which would make the store clerk's account true. Dad was in the store several hours later with a dirty, fussy little Deorr.

It will take more than a debate over whether or not a trip to the local convenience store is plausible to convince me that he's lying.

JMO

The store visit is important for two reasons.

1. If the clerk saw DeOrr alive, it could be the last verified sighting of him (placing him with the father in the black truck far away from the campsite).

2. The time is very important because if the clerk is right then something is way off with the entire scenario.

At this point, the clerk has no reason to lie although she could simply be mistaken. But I would think with it being of such importance to gauge the time...LE would have pulled all the tickets for the day to narrow purchases and times.

ETA: By the way, did you catch my post about the video and the dad stating, "He was right with us." at the 1:42 mark? Odd indeed.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-4&p=11963743#post11963743

 

[flourish]

They have pretty thick accents..the father says crick instead of creek. Is it possible the person out of view said empty bag and not emt bag?

Lol, I insist I have no accent. Creek and crick, cardboard and cordboard, Pocatello and Pocatella. Yep. Don't even get me started on Boise vs Boize! I can rant about that for days lol.

 

[crh8]

i saw on facebook before her group became closed what the connection was, but since its private now and not in the news im not sure im allowed to say.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

i saw on facebook before her group became closed what the connection was, but since its private now and not in the news im not sure im allowed to say.

I believe if it was when the group was public, you can rephrase it in your own words. If it is information found out in a closed group, it is not allowed here. The safe thing to do is wait and ask Bessie.

 

[Jules71]

They have pretty thick accents..the father says crick instead of creek. Is it possible the person out of view said empty bag and not emt bag?

I think crick and creek are regional. A lot of people in the West say crick. In fact most of my family does except me. We are from WA. It's like pop or soda, bag or sack, toasted cheese or grilled cheese. Lol.

I think for EMT to be empty, she would have had to have a southern drawl. I heard EMT.

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[bessie]

If a FB is private you can't share what you've read there.