ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[wondering25]

Are all caps really necessary? Usually when someone makes a suggestion like this he or she has a few ideas. You brought up the topic and I assumed you might. I certainly wasn't expecting you to have an answer, but we all come up with theories when different ideas are presented, and I don't see why my question elicited this kind of response.

sorry, it was frustration.. not being a wise guy.. it was for emphasis.. WHY??? WHY?? IMO because they are nuts!

 

[Inthedetails]

In this video at 2:02 you can see a bicycle in front of IR's house. So it wouldn't surprise me in the least if that was his means of transportation. Even if he has a license he may not have been able to afford the insurance after having those infractions.

[video=youtube;01DB2lqpWcs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01DB2lqpWcs[/video]

I'm not able to review the video now, but IIRC, the bike was missing parts. Can you confirm??

 

[IDTater]

I just got done reading the section on media involvement in a resource guide for families of missing children on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website. It emphasizes the importance of media in missing children cases and recommends working with the media to get the missing child's name and information out. It also recommends creating "hooks," or new ways to keep the story fresh. Interesting stuff. I'm curious, especially with a person from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children coming to help, why almost none of these strategies are being employed in this particular case.

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/PDF6A.pdf

Also, I know of two other relatively high profile missing children cases (Lonzie Barton and Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos) where rewards are being offered for information. I haven't found any mention of rewards for information in this case. Anyone know of any rewards or fund-raising towards rewards that might be occurring?

 

[skinnycat]

I'm not able to review the video now, but IIRC, the bike was missing parts. Can you confirm??

missing seat and handle bars and who knows what else, looks like it has weeds growing up threw the wheels

 

[Inthedetails]

missing seat and handle bars and who knows what else, looks like it has weeds growing up threw the wheels

Thanks. That's what I remember seeing. He wasn't using that bike, imo.

 

[Dee10]

missing seat and handle bars and who knows what else, looks like it has weeds growing up threw the wheels

LOL yeah, I was thinking it must be a safe neighbor that he wasn't worried about the bike being stolen. :floorlaugh:

 

[neesaki]

BBM.

A few comments/questions:

First, the mention of great-grandfather not considered a suspect comes after the reporter states that Jessica Mitchel and DeOrr Kunz are not suspects at this time. It does not seem to me that Sheriff is using the words interchangeably. Rest assured, LE does not ruled out people casually. They do not say great-grandpa was ruled out as a POI because it is my opinion that he will not be a reliable witness. Great-grandfather's health is definitely serious, both physical and mental which brings me to point #3.

Why would you think a great-grandfather whose health is so severe that caused him to be ruled out of a police investigation, would be capable of watching after an active 2 year old or in their words "he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire"?. I could understand (if they were not aware of IR's criminal record) if they have said ""he was going to be good with grandpa and friend by the campfire" but no mention of the friend at all during the interview. As a matter of fact, it makes the viewer deduce that during that very crucial moment of the toddler's disappearance it was only little DeOrr and great-grandpa alone. IR seems to disagree. Actually, it makes the viewer deduce that the only people during the trip were: Mom, dad, little DeOrr and great-grandpa. The omission is intriguing.

I do find that omission intriguing. I also wondered when viewing the photos yesterday, why there are not four, but three chairs around the campfire - one double chair, and one single chair. http://www.ktvb.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2015/07/13/missing-toddler/30075461/

 

[renarde]

One part of the store visit scenario that bothers me is that DK says that they went "as a family." The store clerk claims to have seen a man with a child that matches little DeOrr's description in a truck that is the same color as DK's. They were adamant that the 6 pm sighting was actually them much earlier in the day. But there are so many things we don't know:

*Why is there no mention of JM or a woman at the 6 pm sighting?
*Is the description of the man with little DeOrr even similar enough to DK?
*Are their any similarities in the truck other than the color? Make, model, year, accessories?
*Is the clerk who was working at the store at the time DK said they were there - a little after noon based on his assertion that from 1pm and on, they were at the campground and the drive is 40 minutes - and the clerk on at 6 pm the same person? Or is it logical that the noonish clerk is an opener who worked until early afternoon and the 6 pm clerk a closer?

To my first point, I guess JM could have stayed in the truck. But if she's already been in the truck for 2/12 hours to get to the campground plus the 40 minutes back to the store and another 40 minutes to get back to the campground, it seems unlikely. Especially if women's hygiene products were part of the haul at the store (which we don't know, just a theory floating around).

I wonder who actually entered the store. Maybe they got gas and left the truck at the pump to go in and pay (and purchase candy). The dirty bawling blonde boy might've stayed in the truck and that is why he was bawling. I can imagine the clerk witnessing this if she was hanging out catching a smoke out front when they pulled up. Interesting that only the boy and gentleman were mentioned. As far as black trucks go, they are everywhere. There are several black trucks in the various news pictures of the campground area during the search and rescue time.

 

[persimmon]

There are a few discrepencies that are bothering me so maybe somebody can offer a suggestion that might change my perspective?

In the parental interview, DeOrr Sr. states that people don't realize how open the campground is and that you can basically see everything when he's explaining their decision to go exploring. However, later in the interview when the topic of abduction is suggested when answering the question about others in area, DeOrr Sr. conveys a sense of concern because you cannot see around you or would not know if somebody had appeared at the campsite due to the limited scope of vision it offers.

The other item I keep mulling over are the 911 calls. We have established that the trip to site is a long, slow journey on difficult terrain. It seems reasonable...I suppose to want to ensure reliable reception. As such, DeOrr Sr. Says he opted to drive away from the site to get better reception. The problem I have is how is it that Jessica connects with a dispatcher and within a very short time frame DeOrr Sr. Is also connected with a dispatcher if he was driving slowly out of the campsite. It's established he is on another line early in her call and I dont see how enough time has lapsed.

I am not placing blame and I understand it's a crisis situation and therefore not a time to nitpick a person's behavior or language but these two items seem odd to me and I am guessing it's just me overthinking or misunderstanding?

 

[catswhiskers]

I do find that omission intriguing. I also wondered when viewing the photos yesterday, why there are not four, but three chairs around the campfire - one double chair, and one single chair. http://www.ktvb.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2015/07/13/missing-toddler/30075461/

That photo isn't of the original campsite - the parents moved further away during the search (and also said they were staying there until DeOrr was found)

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I just got done reading the section on media involvement in a resource guide for families of missing children on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website. It emphasizes the importance of media in missing children cases and recommends working with the media to get the missing child's name and information out. It also recommends creating "hooks," or new ways to keep the story fresh. Interesting stuff. I'm curious, especially with a person from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children coming to help, why almost none of these strategies are being employed in this particular case.

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/PDF6A.pdf

Also, I know of two other relatively high profile missing children cases (Lonzie Barton and Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos) where rewards are being offered for information. I haven't found any mention of rewards for information in this case. Anyone know of any rewards or fund-raising towards rewards that might be occurring?

It's interesting to me that the parents of Austin and Perry have been all over the news, even though their sons are lost (not abducted) but in this case, I keep hearing that there is no point in the parents being in the news because Deorr is lost? What's the difference?

 

[neesaki]

That photo isn't of the original campsite - the parents moved further away during the search (and also said they were staying there until DeOrr was found)

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me catswhiskers, now there's one less question in my mind, lol. :wave:

 

[IDTater]

The other item I keep mulling over are the 911 calls. We have established that the trip to site is a long, slow journey on difficult terrain. It seems reasonable...I suppose to want to ensure reliable reception. As such, DeOrr Sr. Says he opted to drive away from the site to get better reception. The problem I have is how is it that Jessica connects with a dispatcher and within a very short time frame DeOrr Sr. Is also connected with a dispatcher if he was driving slowly out of the campsite. It's established he is on another line early in her call and I dont see how enough time has lapsed.

Maybe the initial plan was for DK to drive to get better cell service and make the phone call. After he took off, JM noticed she was able to get reception in a certain area and so decided to place a call at that time? He could have been gone for a few minutes while she wandered around to find good reception.

I'd still like to hear his 911 call. Even if it's just, "Ok, we already have JM on the phone, we'll call you back if we need anything for you," kind of thing.

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

Now that these individuals have been named as POI's, are we allowed to discuss their possible involvement in the disappearance? I'm pretty sure a while back Bessie posted some TOS that said we could.

So far, a lot of us have been dancing around theories of the parent's involvement. We would be more help if we could discuss this openly.

Sheriff: Parents, friend are persons of interest in boy's disappearance

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...-search-deorr-kuna-persons-interest/30799181/

 

[Inthedetails]

Now that these individuals have been named as POI's, are we allowed to discuss their possible involvement in the disappearance? I'm pretty sure a while back Bessie posted some TOS that said we could.

Sheriff: Parents, friend are persons of interest in boy's disappearance

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...-search-deorr-kuna-persons-interest/30799181/

We can discuss what has been reported in MSM only, but not sleuthing.

That's my understanding.

 

[steelman]

missing seat and handle bars and who knows what else, looks like it has weeds growing up threw the wheels

Has the bike been named an O.O.I. ? (Object of Interest)

No sleuthing of inanimate objects unless they have been named as a suspect by LE.

 

[bessie]

Now that these individuals have been named as POI's, are we allowed to discuss their possible involvement in the disappearance? I'm pretty sure a while back Bessie posted some TOS that said we could.

So far, a lot of us have been dancing around theories of the parent's involvement. We would be more help if we could discuss this openly.

Sheriff: Parents, friend are persons of interest in boy's disappearance

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...-search-deorr-kuna-persons-interest/30799181/

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11959923

 

[renarde]

I think it's interesting that even IR refers to Grandpa as just the "grandfather." It's like this man is just everyone's grandpa.

 

[SleuthMom]

It's interesting to me that the parents of Austin and Perry have been all over the news, even though their sons are lost (not abducted) but in this case, I keep hearing that there is no point in the parents being in the news because Deorr is lost? What's the difference?

No, the difference is that Deorr's parents have declined every request to be interviewed by national media. Hopefully, they will change their stance.

 

[teeandcee]

The other item I keep mulling over are the 911 calls. We have established that the trip to site is a long, slow journey on difficult terrain. It seems reasonable...I suppose to want to ensure reliable reception. As such, DeOrr Sr. Says he opted to drive away from the site to get better reception. The problem I have is how is it that Jessica connects with a dispatcher and within a very short time frame DeOrr Sr. Is also connected with a dispatcher if he was driving slowly out of the campsite. It's established he is on another line early in her call and I dont see how enough time has lapsed.

He said in the interview he "hauled" out of there so he wasn't driving slowly. The only reason I remember this detail is I think he almost said he "hauled arse" but caught himself with the last half of that term.