ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[flourish]

I had no idea habitual drunkard was a thing.

Lol there are a lot of things in Idaho you wouldn't believe were things!

 

[bluesneakers]

I haven't read anything that said what they bought. The reporter doing the interview should have asked them that, in addition to asking them if little Deorr was dirty and crying. The reporter sucked!

Yeah, he lost control of the room at times.

 

[SleuthMom]

No, just the aftermath of a bunch of awful involving my minor child and the person who hurt him grievously.

Offtopic but...I'm very sorry flourish and I mean it. *hugs*

 

[Eileen730]

It reminded me of a kid who knows he's in trouble and is going to keep talking as long as possible to avoid the punishment. (Mother of 3 boys here.) And also to take up as much of the interview time as possible, so there is less time for questions that might be uncomfortable. He definitely controls the situation and all the people in it during the interview.

I don't know. Anything is possible.
Im a mom of 2 boys... and I understand what u say but if u are lying to cover your butt I think u would have to think before u speak. He sure talks a lot and I would think hes been consistant with his story. Guess we have to wait and see.

Now mom on the other hand to me is too quiet.

 

[bluesneakers]

Sometimes sealed cases are those involving minors, but not necessarily for bad reasons. For example, I have no criminal record, and one traffic violation in Idaho. If you looked at my files on the repository, you don't see the traffic violation, because it happened prior to the registry entries began. You would see a couple of sealed files. Nefarious flourish? No, just the aftermath of a bunch of awful involving my minor child and the person who hurt him grievously. But it could APPEAR that I have more of a record than the one improper turn back in the day.

Idk what the situation is here, I was just sharing my experience with the Idaho repository. Wish my current state had one!!

Too late. Your cover is blown, nefarious flourish.

 

[SleuthMom]

All I know about Idaho is BYUI and the potatoes I eat.

 

[ILOKAL]

sbm

I noticed this about other people I looked up too. Seems like a lot of charges get dropped. I can't even remember who I was looking up when I kept noticing that.

Maybe that's what was meant by police reports not matching up with his record.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Typically arrestees are over-charged. Seems to give the DA more leverage for a plea bargain. It's a terrible practice, IMO because unless expunged at a later date, the arrests stay on your record for perpetuity!

 

[rkf]

But if they are as mystified as we have been then I could see why all the back and forth with the ideas though...

I know. And I have to remember it was still relatively early in the search, so it was still feasible that some sign of DeOrr would surface.

The interview just made me feel like the were hiding something. Could have been because they were afraid of being blamed for leaving DeOrr basically unattended. They did omit the other adult that was at the scene, so I'm not imagining that. Is that the only thing of possible importance deliberately omitted from their interview? If so, why was it so important to not say IR was there? Please don't say, well, it wasn't important that he was there. Like I say to my kids, if it's not important, why lie about it (or lie by omission)?

File under you can't win for trying.

 

[rkf]

Okay. So... Deorr was missing, they started the search, then dad snuck (?) away, got Deorr and was at the store with him at 6pm. I don't see any way this could be what happened. How do you think it would be possible?

Imo the clerk got the time right but saw another guy in a black truck with a kid.

Why does it have to be DK with DeOrr at the store. Why couldn't it be a kidnapper or IR? We don't have any idea where IR was at any time, except that it's been said he was at the campsite with them. Would really like to know if IR drove separately and if so, what he drives. Was he there when LE/SAR arrived? Did he help look for DeOrr when everyone realized he was missing?

Have LE and SAR said anything about the ease or difficulty of getting a signal at the search site?

 

[IDTater]

They must have bought candy/candy bar for him because the parents themselves seemed to think that the clerk had indeed seen DK and baby Deorr at the store. If they didn't buy him candy, then they surely would dismiss the clerk's "sighting" all together rather than just stating that it was them but that her time was incorrect.

But the clerk also apparently only mentioned a man and a child when DK made it clear that JM went on the trip to the store, too. The time difference alone would make me think the most logical explanation was that the clerk just saw a kid that happened to resemble DeOrr. Or it would lend credibility to the abduction theory that DK was relatively certain explained his kid's disappearance. They never indicated that the description of the man at 6 pm looked like DK.

Also, a new thought about the sighting - DeOrr's parents said he is small for his age. Would that play into the possibility that the 6 pm sighting was mistaken identity? Was he so small that someone would underestimate his approximate age? I ask this as a mother of two kids who are both off of their respective growth charts but in opposite directions - one huge, one tiny. No one ever guesses their ages correctly.

Edited to add: I'm a nurse. I can read a growth chart. His weight at his age puts him right at the 25%. So not super tiny.

 

[Jules71]

Seriously Searching: I believe your two statements are in contradiction to each other. How can you believe "the clerk because she was quite specific about the other details surrounding the sighting", yet when I asked you questions as to how you saw this going together you had no idea.

Your response to me was the second quote, where you are asking me questions that were included in the "other details surrounding the sighting" of the first quote.

To believe the clerk, one must have a timeline in their mind as to how little Deorr was at the store at 6:00.

You weren't asking me but -- hypothetically someone could have intentionally stashed little Deorr somewhere in the wilderness between the camp and the store with the plan of someone else picking him up and taking him away. By stopping in the store it cements the theory of an abduction. He could have been filthy and bawling because he was alone in the elements for a period of time. So the sighting could have been correct that it was little Deorr.

AFAIK JM and DK did not confirm their son was filthy or bawling when they went to the store earlier as a family and I also don't believe they confirmed they bought a candy bar - just that they went to get some things.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[bluesneakers]

Why does it have to be DK with DeOrr at the store. Why couldn't it be a kidnapper or IR? We don't have any idea where IR was at any time, except that it's been said he was at the campsite with them. Would really like to know if IR drove separately and if so, what he drives. Was he there when LE/SAR arrived? Did he help look for DeOrr when everyone realized he was missing?

Have LE and SAR said anything about the ease or difficulty of getting a signal at the search site?

I didn't say that. Someone else suggested the clerk recognized DK and Deorr when they were at the store that evening. If the clerk had said it was ONLY Deorr she recognized I would agree it was probably a kidnapper. But the father and son together at 6pm? IMO no way.

eta: I think store clerk saw an adult male and a kid, probably father and son, in a black truck. But the man was not DK.

 

[Dee10]

To me the blanket plays some kind of significant role in this mystery. By the parents account, DeOrr goes no where with out this + his monkey & sippi-cup. These items were left in the truck. Why were they left in the truck??? What caused DeOrr not to take these items when he supposedly got out of the truck Why he asking for these items if it was nap time? Why were the parents heavily talking about the blanket, something to the effect he had that blanket since he was born. It is a replica of a security blanket, father pauses then says his. It was very strange to me, as if the blanket was missing & did anyone see it. This was at the end of the tape. Anyone else have thoughts about this?

 

[SleuthMom]

I didn't say that. Someone else suggested the clerk recognized DK and Deorr when they were at the store that evening. If the clerk had said it was ONLY Deorr she recognized I would agree it was probably a kidnapper. But the father and son together at 6pm? IMO no way.

As far as *we* know, she did not recognized anyone. She just mentioned a man and a young blonde boy.

 

[Eileen730]

After watching some of the videos, I'm leaning towards foul play here.

- The campsite area appears to be wide open. Surely, if a car had driven into the area it would have been seen or heard. Even if someone had been watching DeOrr from a cliff above, they would have to drive into the area. And wasn't this location hours off any kind of main road? What are the odds that an abductor would just happen to be at this exact spot?

- The dad said he saw the DeOrr last before he left camp with the mom. He said he returned in 10 minutes. A child that young wouldn't wander so far away that the SAR's wouldn't have found him.

- If any child decided to explore the surrounding area, I believe he would choose a path to follow. If one wasn't available, I doubt he would get very far through the brush without becoming tangled.

- The stream seemed to be clogged with boulders and fallen tree limbs. I DeOrr had fallen in it doesn't seem likely that he would float downstream very far at all.

- If any kind of wild animal had somehow grabbed him, drag areas would be visible. Also, the search dogs would probably be able to pick up a scent. I don't know if any scent at all was found, but DeOrr's shed skin cells could have come from his blanket and other items.

- DeOrr's dad, in particular, was unemotional and seemed rather resigned. I was struck by how he calmly went on and on during the interview, like he had all the time in the world. It was more like a lecture than a desperate plea for help.

- Watching the video of the granddads friend kind of clinched it for me as foul play. Not only wasn't he helping in the search, but he refused to answer questions and was literally hiding behind the door. He was very nervous and seemed as if he was afraid to say the wrong thing- as if he had been involved in some way or had been threatened.

Some other thoughts:

- It seems like quite a distance to drive with a young child and a disabled, elderly man.

- Maybe DeOrr never even arrived at that campsite.

- It's Interesting that the granddads friend is far younger and also has a criminal past.

- I think there's a lot about the timeline we haven't been privy to.

- How does a young child 'disappear' when there are 4 adults right there? No one disappears, and someone knows where he is.

Of course, my opinion only.

I just want to bring this post forward again this is excellent!


Why take an elderly man with dementia, a friend (that u just met) with a long rap sheet and a baby camping?
Makes no sense at all does it?
there is a huge chunk missing!

 

[rkf]

I just want to bring this post forward again this is excellent!


Why take an elderly man with dementia, a friend (that u just met) with a long rap sheet and a baby camping?
Makes no sense at all does it?
there is a huge chunk missing!

This is gross, so forgive me. If he was lost or partially eaten by an animal, unless he was pinned under water, by now wouldn't birds of prey circle where his body would be found? I know there's probably tons of small animals that draw these scavengers, but I would think it wouldn't be too terribly far from the campsite.

 

[bluesneakers]

As far as *we* know, she did not recognized anyone. She just mentioned a man and a young blonde boy.

Which leaves everything wide open.

 

[rkf]

As far as *we* know, she did not recognized anyone. She just mentioned a man and a young blonde boy.

Who matched JM's and DK's description of DeOrr. That's what JM says in the interview IIRC.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Seriously Searching: I believe your two statements are in contradiction to each other. How can you believe "the clerk because she was quite specific about the other details surrounding the sighting", yet when I asked you questions as to how you saw this going together you had no idea.

Your response to me was the second quote, where you are asking me questions that were included in the "other details surrounding the sighting" of the first quote.

To believe the clerk, one must have a timeline in their mind as to how little Deorr was at the store at 6:00.

I understand the confusion. Maybe it does seem like I am being contradictory, but if we could get into other avenues of investigation...like I have bouncing around in my head...I could explain it better. I do think the clerk mentioning the child being "filthy" and buying candy is pretty specific. Could she be mistaken about the time or perhaps not the time, but the actual day? Sure. And I would accept it as being honest mistake. Could the dad simply be mistaken about a trip to the store and the timeline when he has been asked to account for every single minute of his day by LE? Not likely to be "an honest mistake" if he is off on his timeline. Does that make it as clear as mud now?

 

[rkf]

To me the blanket plays some kind of significant role in this mystery. By the parents account, DeOrr goes no where with out this + his monkey & sippi-cup. These items were left in the truck. Why were they left in the truck??? What caused DeOrr not to take these items when he supposedly got out of the truck Why he asking for these items if it was nap time? Why were the parents heavily talking about the blanket, something to the effect he had that blanket since he was born. It is a replica of a security blanket, father pauses then says his. It was very strange to me, as if the blanket was missing & did anyone see it. This was at the end of the tape. Anyone else have thoughts about this?

That whole discussion of the blanket didn't really make sense. A replica, even an exact replica, is not the actual object. So was this an extra identical blanket that they kept in the car? Was it the blanket he carried everywhere with him? It looks dang good to me for being dragged around for 2 years! I was lucky that my oldest son chose one of those gauzy cloth diapers that I used for "burp cloths". We had an endless supply and could switch them out at will for washing! Which was good because he took one with him everywhere, even when he started nursery school. I really wish we had a concise explanation of when/if the blanket, cup, monkey were in the car when DeOrr disappeared or if the parents put them in the truck later and that's what DK's father was referring to. So easy for things to be taken out of context and then develop real significance!