ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[Morag]

Are the trees in the general camping area all evergreens?--or are some of them deciduous?

 

[Floridian]

Did anything come ABOUT with the heat sonar. I thought they were using heat sonar, bout I haven't heard any results. I personally don't think he's in the water, nor ate by any animals, nor wandered off.. camping involves hiking, hiking involves trails, trails involve the passing of people from different spots. Deorr would've never been heard of he was grabbed by neck or head by animals. Too many circumstances to lead to a sick person is involved, whether someone there, or ahiker, or someone hiding. Statistics are..... is if someone is not wanting to be found for some reason or another, mountains, creeks, campsites are best place to disappear too, especially criminals not wanting to get caught. Jus saying that's my opinion. It's been stated not too say certain things on here, so I won't. But I have my thoughts. And my gut keeps taking me back to camp site. I believe it's all fixing to unfold, because four people, have no idea.. I just doubt think so... he was two for goodness sake... and scent keeps going back to campsite....why?????? I pray and pray for this baby. And it's heart breaking. I hope the parents are innocent, abd they seem genuinely heart broken.I'm only speaking about the parents...

Sorry for misspelling.. also when I say criminals hiding, anyone hiding, it's easy to hide in woods and watch. Watch for perfect time to MAKE the move. Children are snatched everyday within a few seconds... so don't think it's not possible... someone hiding out would know those woods very well.

 

[Cardinal47]

Were trackers used? At the onset? The scat from a mountain lion is not particularly unusual and looks very much like dog poop.

They had 300 searchers and 150 dogs and

not a trace of DeOrr. These are mountain men and hunters from the area. I am sure they would recognize mountain lion scat and tracks usually found by water. They found nothing. MOO

 

[needtoknow]

I've just spent the last hour reading up on many, many near misses. All of those things COULD have happened but for them all to align just right is just beyond my belief. Jmo

But what are the alternatives? In many ways, it's the most plausible to me. It definately fits the "just vanished" scenario. JMO

 

[Floridian]

And.........honey bun........ doesn't that seem odd.. all these searchers, all the ways they have searched, and yet nothing. No trace... I'm not buying it. A full on search, in and out and NOTHING... " everything that glitters is not gold"

 

[ILOKAL]

There is a new case on WS about a teacher who went missing Friday in Eldorado County, CA while dirt biking in the national forest there. He became separated from his friend and went missing. There have been numerous mountain lion attacks in California, to include some attacks on bikers, at least one of which was fatal.

 

[ILOKAL]

I've just spent the last hour reading up on many, many near misses. All of those things COULD have happened but for them all to align just right is just beyond my belief. Jmo

Near "misses"? What's a near miss? I've read about the attacks. Behaviors. The crime fits the cougar to a tee without any additional alignment. Jmo

 

[rkf]

I don't know which sources you're referencing, but from what I've read, an hour, 10 minutes, and four minutes refer to different events.


One hour = Duration he was missing at the time mom reached 911 at 2:35.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/


10-15 minutes = Length of time parents were gone

"His parents said they left the child with his great-grandfather and when they returned 10 to 15 minutes later..."
http://kutv.com/news/nation-world/p...-is-still-alive-after-getting-lost-a-week-ago


4 minutes = Length of time when no one had eyes on him.

"There's a four-minute window where no one had an eye on him," says Kunz, 70."
http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks

(I interpreted the last item to mean that after parents departed, gff and/or friend were aware of little DK's presence with the exception of a four minute span when their attention was turned away. JMO)

I don't understand what is meant by "4 minutes where no one had eyes on him". Does that mean ggp saw Deorr and then was looking elsewhere/rested his eyes for 4 minutes and Deorr was gone when he looked back where the baby had been? I'm not trying to be dense - it seems like there would be no way to know how long no one had eyes on him, as no one has seen him in over 2 weeks.

 

[bessie]

Thank you, Bessie, for the Media, Timelines and Maps Thread for Deorr!

I find that visiting the Media threads answers many of my questions prior to visiting the discussion thread...

and helps me catch up when I fall behind!

:tyou:

You're welcome, but thanks really goes to ClaireNC for compiling the links.

 

[Floridian]

But what are the alternatives? In many ways, it's the most plausible to me. It definately fits the "just vanished" scenario. JMO

Many have referred too the missing 411.. I honestly believe it can happen, stranger things have happened. BUT, but in this case, these circumstances, we've all been playing investigator bc we all want the same thing, deorr found, but unfortunately when the case seems to start quieting down, and nothing is being said, it's because they are learning new things, and in order to fully investigate things, and people, they can't and won't release anything and chance someone taking off.... 4 people, 4 stories...... if anything doesn't seem right about any of there stories, it will come out in the wash. I personally believe the parents are innocent, grieving and at a loss.... my OPINION

 

[bessie]

I don't understand what is meant by "4 minutes where no one had eyes on him". Does that mean ggp saw Deorr and then was looking elsewhere/rested his eyes for 4 minutes and Deorr was gone when he looked back where the baby had been? I'm not trying to be dense - it seems like there would be no way to know how long no one had eyes on him, as no one has seen him in over 2 weeks.

That was my interpretation, or something close to it.

After the four adults compared notes, they determined that a four minute window occurred when the parents were exploring, and ggf and the friend were distracted -- turned their eyes away -- and didn't see him.

 

[ILOKAL]

There is a new case on WS about a teacher who went missing Friday in Eldorado County, CA while dirt biking in the national forest there. He became separated from his friend and went missing. There have been numerous mountain lion attacks in California, to include some attacks on bikers, at least one of which was fatal.

I want to add this link: http://www.mtdemocrat.com/search/mountain lion sightings

These are sightings of mountain lions in the area where this biker went missing. I wonder if anyone is thinking . . . . Mountain lion attack?

 

[Floridian]

I do know that on two of the missing kids cases of different states, same situation, many speculate something to affect of missing 411. I'm not sure myself that Deorrs situation isn't the same, but I do know in those two situations, the green baray (I know that's spelled wrong) was brought in. So, if they are brought in on this case, we pretty much have a good idea why. its just been so long, and this is driving me crazy. He's somewhere and somebody knows something. I'm losing sleep at night thinking of this baby, and what he's been thru.... it's time like these, you wish people had trackers and then we could find him..

 

[SeriouslySearching]

That was my interpretation, or something close to it.

After the four adults compared notes, they determined that a four minute window occurred when the parents were exploring, and ggf and the friend were distracted -- turned their eyes away -- and didn't see him.

And most curiously detailed. I have not heard of many cases where the timeline of people having eyes on one is down to under a 5 minute window. Pretty specific for a place where there are no clocks and no real sense of time exists. 4 minutes? Why didn't they just round up? Odd.

 

[ILOKAL]

And most curiously detailed. I have not heard of many cases where the timeline of people having eyes on one is down to under a 5 minute window. Pretty specific for a place where there are no clocks and no real sense of time exists. 4 minutes? Why didn't they just round up? Odd.

No clocks? Each parent had a cell phone and I'm sure there's a clock in the truck so they would be just as aware of the time as if they were in town. We just finished camping for eight days and were always aware of the approximate time. They knew they got back to the campsite at about 1:00 so determining it was 2:00 when they explored would not be difficult, imo

 

[Elainera]

That was my interpretation, or something close to it.

After the four adults compared notes, they determined that a four minute window occurred when the parents were exploring, and ggf and the friend were distracted -- turned their eyes away -- and didn't see him.

Yes that's how I understood it too.

 

[Elainera]

Yes. There would be a trace especially as you said, "bit and carried". There would be blood and DeOrr's scent at the point of capture. DeOrr's scent would have been sloughing off in the form of skin cells in a struggle with the lion and someone would have most likely heard the baby screaming. I don't see it is possible a lion could attack him and take him off without a single piece of evidence left behind.

We had discussion in thread 1 where another knowledgeable member said this is not how lions hunt. They said lions put pressure on the neck, hence there would be no blood, no struggle, and no screams. It would be over in a split second.

I appreciate all of ILOKAL's post and explanations :tyou: but they leave me very confused.

ETA: after reading some more of ILOKAL's posts I see that s/he actually said what the earlier poster in thread 1 said.

 

[bessie]

And most curiously detailed. I have not heard of many cases where the timeline of people having eyes on one is down to under a 5 minute window. Pretty specific for a place where there are no clocks and no real sense of time exists. 4 minutes? Why didn't they just round up? Odd.

I found that a little odd, myself, but I'd be willing to bet that if we read the entire statement, and not only that one line People printed out of context, it would make sense.

http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks

 

[katydid23]

But how do you look away from a 2 yr old baby, while camped right next to a raging creek, for 'four minutes' ---realize he has vanished, and then decide he must have gone and found his parents who are off in the woods...

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't understand what is meant by "4 minutes where no one had eyes on him". Does that mean ggp saw Deorr and then was looking elsewhere/rested his eyes for 4 minutes and Deorr was gone when he looked back where the baby had been? I'm not trying to be dense - it seems like there would be no way to know how long no one had eyes on him, as no one has seen him in over 2 weeks.

I don't understand why they would tell him four minutes when they told everyone else (911, media, LE) times that were longer. It seems like such an odd thing. Did they say 40 (closer-ish to the other times) and he misunderstood, or did he maybe do his own calculations?

Because four minutes. No way imo.