ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[ClaireNC]

Have you watched the very recent video of the family friend?

Yes. I watched it yesterday. It confirmed some info that I already knew. All I can say is Wow! for fear of getting a time out.

 

[ClaireNC]

I agree, it's very strange. An odd way of responding to this question when he acknowledges he was right there. If he was right there, there should be no "as far as I know" because he WOULD presumably know. This family friend does not seem "all there" himself, IMO. And this answer seems contrived/prepared.

Thanks jmcgladr. You said what I was thinking but couldn't find the right words to type.

 

[katydid23]

I agree, it's very strange. An odd way of responding to this question when he acknowledges he was right there. If he was right there, there should be no "as far as I know" because he WOULD presumably know. This family friend does not seem "all there" himself, IMO. And this answer seems contrived/prepared.

It was one of the 'weakest' statements of explanation ever. ' ummm, as far as I know he disappeared.'

I used to work in the principals office in a high school. ANYTIME a kid answered a tough question with ' yes, as far as I know...' it usually meant ' NO, but I don't want to snitch on my friends'

I see so many red flags in this video.

 

[bessie]

Sorry for all the quotes, I wanted to capture the discussion. Maybe I can clear up some of the confusion. Personally, I entirely discount the 4 minute claim as hearsay. The People article, quoted the Paternal Grandfather, also named DeOrr, and he was not at the campground. The Maternal Great Grandfather, was the one that joined them on the camping trip. He has "declining physical and mental health" so even if he said it was "just 4 minutes", I wouldn't put too much weight on it.

Here are the links for reference: http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks and http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/

From People: "Mitchell's father-in-law, also named DeOrr Kunz, tells PEOPLE." So it was the paternal grandfather speaking. "The elder Kunz says the boy's parents were setting up camp and assumed Mitchell's grandfather, who was also on the trip, was watching the boy."

From East Idaho News: "The great-grandfather, who authorities have not identified, also has not been labeled as a suspect. Authorities said his declining physical and mental health ruled him out at the beginning of the case."

Thanks, but I wasn't confused.

 

[SleuthMom]

First of all, when asked how long he was missing, she hesitates. Operator prompts, "An hour?" Mom responds, "Yeah."

Personally, at that point in time, I wouldn't expect the mother to have an exact perception of time, but that's just me.

Secondly, do we know if she was responding to the length of time since she and husband returned to campsite? Or time passed since she'd last seen him? If the latter -- parents gone 10-15 minutes, search about 20 minutes -- it doesn't add up to quite an hour, but in her addled state of mind at the moment, it's not a far-fetched guesstimate. And again, the operator threw it out there.

JMO

Link to mom's 911 call

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

Well, I believe we all could give our own reasons about the time discrepancy does not mean any of us is accurate/spot on and certainly does not change the fact that there is a time discrepancy. Nevertheless, I think we could all agree how important (and vital) time is when you are searching for a missing person.

 

[Vail]

Just popping in to offer this link as side-reading - it is a good reminder (as well as the entire McCann case) of why we need to take on some responsibility for how we prejudge players in a mp case when, regardless of the tools and skills we have or not, is limited to an outside perspective.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...urts-full-of-twittering-bullies-26848113.html

I hope all LE involved here are keeping their sights clear and that one day soon we find out what happened to this little boy.

 

[bessie]

Family friend not a suspect in case of missing 2-year-old, sheriff says
By Nate Sunderland, EastIdahoNews.com | Posted Jul 27th, 2015 @ 10:43am


"Bowerman said Reinwand, similar to Mitchell and Kunz, are "persons of interest" in this case because they were at the scene. However, at this time, neither Reinwand, Mitchell or Kunz are suspects in the missing persons case."

"Mitchell and Kunz believe their son was abducted. Bowerman has not ruled abduction out. He said authorities do not suspect foul play, but has said in the past that everything is being considered in the search for the toddler. No suspects have been named in the case."

---

POI does not equal Suspect, and any one of us who happened to be at the scene, and capable, would be regarded as such, and subjected to questioning by LE. SOP.

The parents and the friend remain OFF LIMITS to sleuthing until, and unless, LE indicates any one or more have been elevated to the level of "Suspect".

You can discuss the contents of the article and video of the friend. Since the criminal history was part of the article, you can discuss it. However, it would be wise to note that the past charges mentioned were related to a contentious domestic situation ten years ago. Not a good thing, but also not consistent with a pedophile or sexual predator.

Linking to and discussing his social media profiles, address, and other personal information is not allowed.

The parents are still considered victims, and as I said in an earlier post, are to be given the benefit of the doubt on this site.


Bessie

Bumping before the video discussion takes off again.

 

[jmcgladr]

AAGGHHHH....that just bothers me so much. How is a 2 yr old BABY supposed to find his parents in the woods when they had already been gone for 5 or 10 minutes.....GRRRRR....why didnt he go looking for him immediately, or call out for HELP? So aggravating...

I agree, it doesn't seem to indicate an understanding of the level of self help skills of a child who is not even 2 years old! They can't just be expected to toddle off and find their parents in an unfamiliar place, nor is that safe for the child!

 

[ClaireNC]

Thanks, but I wasn't confused.

But, other people certainly were.

 

[bessie]

Just popping in to offer this link as side-reading - it is a good reminder (as well as the entire McCann case) of why we need to take on some responsibility for how we prejudge players in a mp case when, regardless of the tools and skills we have or not, is limited to an outside perspective.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...urts-full-of-twittering-bullies-26848113.html

I hope all LE involved here are keeping their sights clear and that one day soon we find out what happened to this little boy.

Thank you! The McCann case is just one of many examples.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Just popping in to offer this link as side-reading - it is a good reminder (as well as the entire McCann case) of why we need to take on some responsibility for how we prejudge players in a mp case when, regardless of the tools and skills we have or not, is limited to an outside perspective.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...urts-full-of-twittering-bullies-26848113.html

I hope all LE involved here are keeping their sights clear and that one day soon we find out what happened to this little boy.

Vail. Glad to see you here. I've appreciated your contributions over on the Hadsell case time and time again. In fact I hoped the other day that you might turn up here.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Actually, the parents seem well aware of the time throughout the activities of that day. It was mentioned that they didn't leave the campsite after 1pm. That's very specific. Also, when they went exploring it was going on 2pm, and DeOrr was getting ready to take his nap because he always takes his nap around 2pm. These things show an awareness of the time, IMO.

Did he usually nap with his blanket and toy? I remember reading in a few places that these were found in the vehicle. Is it possible he got back into the vehicle to sleep and became overheated? Clearly he was somehow able to get back out, but a small disoriented child might have passed out or fallen into one of the creeks in the area trying to cool off (I'm not sure how hot it's been there, though).

 

[jmcgladr]

They had 300 searchers and 150 dogs and

not a trace of DeOrr. These are mountain men and hunters from the area. I am sure they would recognize mountain lion scat and tracks usually found by water. They found nothing. MOO

But we're they focused on tracking an animal or a little boy? I say the latter. A mountain lion attack may not even have been on the radar of things to look for at that time. They would have been looking for DeOrr Jr. or signs of him, IMO - not mountain lion poop. I have a related question - for people saying an animal attack would leave a blood trail and the dogs would have followed that - is that really true? B/c my understanding is that the search dogs were scent trained on Deorr's body scent and not the scent of his blood. Any clarification of this point would be appreciated!

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

You're welcome, but thanks really goes to ClaireNC for compiling the links.

Thank you, too, ClaireNC!

:tyou:

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

On mountain lions:

Cats are nocturnal. They hunt from dusk to dawn and nap or rest during the day. Their food is plentiful this time of the year and they rarely attack humans. I discount the mountain lion theory.

 

[skinnycat]

I hope that there are some local hunters, trackers, trappers that are going to be allowed to go into the area, I think that the locals are going to know the area better than the searchers, what predators are in the area,

I hate thinking it but big cat does fit the scenario, lil DeOrr wouldn't have fought back, no noise other then the low growl of the cat, if GGP has hearing issues he never would have heard it. I doubt that there would have been much if any blood. I have no doubt that a big cat could easily carry lil DeOrr away without a trace. No one knows if there was a big cat hanging out in a tree on the edge of the camp site, or in the tall grass, just watching waiting for the right moment. I think that the big cats are one of the sneekiest predators, if a big cat was watching then it would have singled out lil DeOrr as the easiest. I saw a short video years ago where a person was attacked by a big cat and when investigating the attack it was discovered that there was another victim that the big cat had killed, these were all adults. The only thing I can't understand is what happened to the boots if they were over sized, I think that they would have fallen off at least one boot, that's just my mom opinion

Are there people living off the grid in these mountains, have there been families that have only lived in the mountains and never really mix with society, I'll keep hoping that a grizzly adams type mountain man has found lil DeOrr and has no idea that he is missing

It's so frustrating DeOrr is such a little dude and he is missing in such a big wilderness,

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Yes. I watched it yesterday. It confirmed some info that I already knew. All I can say is Wow! for fear of getting a time out.

In addition to him saying all he knows is that he disappeared, he seemed leary to say anything that might have gone against what GGP might have said to the media (although GGP hasn't addressed the media).

I also wish I could view my exact thoughts on all this. I will at least say, however, that I think searchers have been way off the mark.

 

[SleuthMom]

Questions about the dogs (please feel free to answer):

I read that they are using both, cadaver dogs and scent dogs.

I also read that the cadaver dogs indicated there may be something in the reservoir (then we learned about the cremains and LE explanation).

My questions are:

1. Is that the only place? When they say the dogs keep coming back to the campsite we are only talking about scent dogs, correct?

2. Where exactly in the campsite? Vehicles? Tent? Clothes? Where? Can dogs scent someone who was there previously but not necessarily means the person was there that day?

3. Is there a possibility that the dogs keep coming back to the campsite because Deorr's items are there?

4. Do cadaver dogs alert searchers when there is blood somewhere?

 

[SleuthMom]

Also, for those with more experience sleuthing here (if you could please, provide a few examples I would like to search it myself thank you!):

How common is for LE to label the parents of a missing child as "persons of interest" and divulge it to the media?.

 

[SleuthMom]

Since they have so many people working on this case, I want to believe they might have forensic experts as well? No blood? No hair? No trace? Nothing?

About the reservoir...

After they found out about the cremains, did they abandon the idea and assumed the dogs were confused or was the reservoir completely checked several times?