ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

[renarde]

GAH I've been lurking for years here and had to make an account for this. The whole 'he's not in the creek because they haven't found him yet' thing is driving me NUTS. IIRC, they haven't found Leighton McComb or Will Charba yet, who were both flood victims... and they've been missing way more than 3 weeks.

Crazy how far the water carried some of those victims... I think the one survivor from that family was carried about 10 miles downstream.

 

[crh8]

I did some searching on cell phone coverage in the Leadore area and found that unless you have Verizon your signal is non existent or very poor.
Here is a map from Leadore to the campsite. It's kind of difficult to see but the reservoir is just southwest of the campsite.
It takes 38 minutes to travel 9.8 miles on average.
If my math is right thats about 15.5 mph.

 

[Elle*Bee]

GAH I've been lurking for years here and had to make an account for this. The whole 'he's not in the creek because they haven't found him yet' thing is driving me NUTS. IIRC, they haven't found Leighton McComb or Will Charba yet, who were both flood victims... and they've been missing way more than 3 weeks.

:welcome4:

Welcome, reims84, and I agree. Nature/karma doesn't always act on the predictable timeline....

 

[neesaki]

Where I live, my first thought would be to get to higher ground for best reception. I remember too, in the interview, him saying he didn't know about the road overlooking the camp site ..think maybe trying to make good call out is when he found out? Too many missing 2 year old baby boys is weighing heavy on my mind ...where's little DeOrr, little Lonzie Barton and baby Malik Drummond?

Then there's baby Lisa Irwin as well, just disappeared into thin air.

 

[bookboarder]

I am heartbroken that this little man hasn't been found yet. I have two young boys and I cannot fathom the pain the family is feeling over his disappearance.

I have been playing catch-up for days however I did want to comment on a couple of things. I grew up in Southern California with the Cleveland National Forest abutting my back yard. In fact, my family owns the land that goes down the canyon behind their home and up to the forest. I've always been keenly interested in nature and the outdoors and volunteered for years starting at around age 7 for various Nature Centers. When I was 12, I was trained and became a docent of the Santa Monica Mountains Nature Conservancy. I've spent much of my life outdoors whether hiking/camping/fishing in the summer or snowboarding the mountains in the winter... I just realized I've been snowboarding for 21 years [just turned 35 a few weeks ago so it's still a fresh wound!].

I have had quite close encounters with more than one Mountain Lion and innumerable encounters with coyotesand bobcats. A couple with black bears. Firstly, every one of these species whose territory is being lost to development in larger areas like Southern California have begun to show a frightening aggression toward human beings where they used to avoid us out of fear. It's a simple concept, we're taking their food sources and they're adapting. While this doesn't appear to be the case in this situation it is plausible that DeOrr could have very quickly spirited away from his family. Also, there have been cases in these types of predatory animals of rogue behavior--- just as in most species [especially humans!].

My experiences.... Firstly, was about 11 years old out in the pitch black in my parents hot tub which sits about 10 feet from the canyon drop. Turn around and out of nowhere there was a Mountain Lion. It did not appear to be stalking me but I basically made myself as large as possible [at 11 I think I weighed like 60 pounds and was just over 4'! lol] and began making wild sounds., banging anything I could find and it scampered off.

Coyotes. These are deceptive. As you know they hunt in packs and are wildly loud and raucous. However, when they find potential prey they will send out one particular animal. As my friend and I were camping in the Santa Monica Mountains with her 80 lb brown lab Scarlett, I noticed her stalking off toward the field.... Instantly, I knew what was next. They had sent out a lone male scout to "befriend" the domesticated dog and lure her back to the pack and serve her for dinner. Knowing coyotes are generally skittish around adults [I was like 23 this time], I grabbed my metal flashlight, a stick and again made myself as big and aggressive as possible. They had gotten Scarlett [whose furmama refused to keep her on a leash until this point] about 20 yards from where we were sitting at our picnic table in the dark. With my friend staring at me in shock, I'm screaming, banging my flashlight and making myself look like a raving lunatic to try to end this encounter and frighten off the coyotes. THankfully, it worked and Scarlett was safe and stayed right with us the remainder of the trip. I fear, in this case, instead of Scarlett the chocolate lab being silently lured toward a ferocious pack, could a sweet toddler have thought the coyote was just a friendly dog? Up until I began my banshee screaming, the attempted abduction of Scarlett was totally silent. I just happened to notice quickly what was happening because I've been around these animals and in their territory for years.

Finally. my most frightening encounter was when I took my ex-boyfriend [my hottie English ski instructor] camping up near Big Sur. We were in a small but relatively populated campground. Coming from England, my bf was amazed at all the signs warning of large predators. In fact, I think he was scared shitless! [And he'd served in the British Army in Northern Ireland for Pete's sake]. Wearing a headlamp, I started making dinner at dusk, and tossed some ribeyes onto the campfire. I glance up and see the distinct reflection of eyes. Feline eyes. I could make out iits shape/build and knew right away it was a ML and it stayed just beyond the treeline, stalking and beginning to circle our campsite. So, since it'd worked before, I employed my usual tactic and stand on top of the picnic table banging our blue ceramic plates together and making noise and getting myself on "higher" ground. My BF at first didn't know what the heck I was doing but when I nodded in the direction of the treeline, he instantly saw the cat staring us down also. I'll never forget that look on his face [though that could have been because of my looney-toon tactics to try and get this hungry-looking carnivore to look for dinner elsewhere]
That cat did begin to back away but continued to "stalk" us from the treeline for a good 20 minutes after that. I think I had to "hold" my macho BF that night! Again, the stealth of this animal was intense. If I hadn't had my headlamp on and seen the eye's reflecting back at me, this could have had a very poor outcome.

In one of my first apartments with my husband several bikers were attacked and mauled by a very predatory ML basically in the suburbs. It was in the Aliso Viejo area of Orange County and I believe two women lived but a man had been killed earlier that day by the lion. These are Apex predators -- in the category of Grizzly bears and their relatives in Africa and Asia!

While I think that it's most likely a terribly tragic accident [I definitely lean toward drowning -- children can drown in VERY shallow water and it is silent also], I think all avenues still need to be further explored.

As for the video of the "family friend" camping with them though, my opinion is certainly brought into doubt.

Alright, just wanted to share my experiences with these animals in a predator/prey situation and now I've gotta cathch up on the rest of the posts. I made the mistake of running errands today with the kids; 98 F but the "feels like" was 108. I thought my flip flops were going to stick to the pavement. I miss that dry SoCal heat in comparison-- and that even in summer it cools off. I feel like I'm being slow-roasted on this bayou. Watched Shark Week last week though and apparently I live in a preferred nursery for bull sharks and they tagged wayyyyy to many mature bull sharks in Lake Pontchartrain for me to ever swim there again... I've been swimming in water I knew contained alligators down here but I NOPE right out of sharks... [Funny as I'm SCUBA certified too lol].

I'm still hopeful for little DeOrr though, miracles can and do happen. I've got two who are my bous and two little sisters whose existence and health can only be considered miraculous with the odds they've faced as infants and young children.

 

[Alii]

It definitely sounds like a "T" bag. BTW I've just discovered a product called NEEM tea bags. Could it be "Neem teabag" that the off camera person is referring to? It's a herbal tea for arthritis and other ailments. Has anyone heard of it? Is it pronounced "Nee em"?

I understand that it appears that "some people are staring at nothing and starting to see things", that may be true but I don't think so. No. We are staring at every tiny piece of evidence, any information that is available, and interpreting it, reinterpreting it and staring at it again to come to some understanding of what happened to Baby DeOrr. Who knows? What seems like "nothing" may, in fact, be something.

 

[needtoknow]

Since things have slowed down in this thread a bit, I've been perusing other threads as well as their associated MSM and SM activity. It's so heartening in those other cases to see the outpouring of community support. Supplies, time, special skills and all other types of resources are being donated. In Austin and Perry's case, people have organized air and ground searches from the Bahamas to the Carolinas. In Lonzie's, sunscreen for searchers and treats for the dogs are being donated. In both situations, there are frequent briefings.

I have time. I have a special skill set. I have resources. There are many, many more people who are local to this case who have some combination of skills, resources, and an ability to contribute to meaningful search efforts. Our desire to see this sweet boy returned to his family is second only to the desire of his family to have him back in their arms. It's not possible for me to overstate the level of frustration then that I, and many others, feel about the complete shut-out by everyone close to this case.

I can't help think LE is being quiet for a reason. It seems to me that if they thought he was abducted by a stranger, they would be talking about it in the press.

 

[ILOKAL]

R

EMP Bag??

http://www.disasterstuff.com/store/pc/EMP-Bags-for-Generators-32-x-38-p1401.htm#.VbrtBfn08YA

An EMP bag is made to protect electronics from solar flares and can also be used to cover generators... if they were camping maybe they brought a generator for the campground for power?

There is a Mammut Nordic EMT 3-season sleeping bag. Since they WERE camping, and presumably had sleeping bags, maybe the EMT comment was referring to that brand of sleeping bag.

 

[ILOKAL]

I can't help think LE is being quiet for a reason. It seems to me that if they thought he was abducted by a stranger, they would be talking about it in the press.

Perhaps the sheriff is waiting for his "body will normally surface in three weeks" time frame to pass before making a statement. If and when it is felt accidental drowning can be ruled out we might hear something.

 

[Jules71]

I can't help think LE is being quiet for a reason. It seems to me that if they thought he was abducted by a stranger, they would be talking about it in the press.

Right, I tend to agree with that. Seems if they thought there was a good chance he had been abducted, we would be hearing more. So to me, that means they think he really is lost in the wilderness (are they still searching?) or he met with foul play (either at that location or another).

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

I know we're not alone in our analysis and conclusion. When someone disappears, in this case a 28 lb little boy, and there is virtually no trace whatsoever, there aren't TOO many things that probably happened. In THIS case, I only see two that are possibly. One, of course, is drowning and I would imagine we will know soon enough if that is what occurred (but maybe not). The OTHER is having been instantly and silently pounced on by a mountain lion who grabbed his tiny neck and instantly killed him then swiftly carried him off, some distance, to . . . . . . And in no more than three days there was nothing left at all. I'm not sure if it's been previously pointed out, but lions sometimes move their kill to new locations to keep it hidden from other predators who have been known, at times, to steal the lion's kill.

Oh gosh, such as the wolves den... This is sickening, too terrible to think about, beyond comprehension. I so hope that's not the case. Dear God please help that little boy and his family.

 

[needtoknow]

bookboarder - Thank you for your interesting and thoughtful post.

 

[starfire]

I listened to it with headphones and it sounds like EMT bag to me.

For them supposedly wanting to clear up rumors, they did a poor job. They added to the speculation, IMO. The only rumor they cleared up was about Deorr's employer (I haven't seen that rumor anywhere), which is irrelevant and not important to the case at all.

 

[needtoknow]

Perhaps the sheriff is waiting for his "body will normally surface in three weeks" time frame to pass before making a statement. If and when it is felt accidental drowning can be ruled out we might hear something.

Or maybe something else. I can't imagine him walking into the reservoir. If he fell in the creek, I think they would've found him. Jmo

 

[needtoknow]

GAH I've been lurking for years here and had to make an account for this. The whole 'he's not in the creek because they haven't found him yet' thing is driving me NUTS. IIRC, they haven't found Leighton McComb or Will Charba yet, who were both flood victims... and they've been missing way more than 3 weeks.

They said they scoured every inch of the creek many times, on their hands and knees. I'm sure the flood covered a much larger area?

 

[starfire]

Right, I tend to agree with that. Seems if they thought there was a good chance he had been abducted, we would be hearing more. So to me, that means they think he really is lost in the wilderness (are they still searching?) or he met with foul play (either at that location or another).

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

I am wondering what the status of the search is as well. Are professionals still searching? Is family searching? Random good Samaritans? Anyone....?

My heart aches for that adorable, precious child. 3 weeks today that angel went missing.

 

[JLSChook]

They said they scoured every inch of the creek many times, on their hands and knees. I'm sure the flood covered a much larger area?

You might want to read around the forums a bit. Do you realize how many times LE and others have "scoured every inch of....." and didn't find a body that someone else later found in the vicinity? It happens and it happens a lot. I've seen it in my line of work (now retired) too many times to count.

LE and searches are human and are doing the best they can, but they have been known to miss bodies and evidence in many, many cases.

To Reims84---THANK YOU for signing up to say what some of us have been saying for days. So glad you joined us.

<modsnip>

 

[gliving]

I can't help think LE is being quiet for a reason. It seems to me that if they thought he was abducted by a stranger, they would be talking about it in the press.

I'll just say it. I hope they are looking at the friend.

The sheriff, who's held his tongue the entire case, says he's hearing different stories about Isaac

"(Isaac Reinwand) does have a criminal record, however the police reports are not consistent with his record (and I'm) not sure why.
&#8211;Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman"


Jul 27th, 2015
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=35680592&nid=148&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-6

Another poster had a great post about Reinwald's past charges and how they were all reduced to lesser crimes. Can't find it in search. Can someone please find it? TIA

 

[needtoknow]

You might want to read around the forums a bit. Do you realize how many times LE and others have "scoured every inch of....." and didn't find a body that someone else later found in the vicinity? It happens and it happens a lot. I've seen it in my line of work (now retired) too many times to count.

LE and searches are human and are doing the best they can, but they have been known to miss bodies and evidence in many, many cases.

To Reims84---THANK YOU for signing up to say what some of us have been saying for days. So glad you joined us.

<modsnip>

I would be more inclined to think that way if it were a river instead of a creek, jmo

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I would be more inclined to think that way if it were a river instead of a creek, jmo

Right. The creek looks to be not much more than runoff of very shallow water with close banks. No body is going to go unnoticed in that water. I was looking for the photo they showed of it earlier, but can't find it again.

Here is a video of the area and includes the creek:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/a-closer-look-the-campground-where-deorr-kunz-disappeared/