ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

[*JMO*]

BBM - You might be right. It sounds like it's very possible they may have arrived on Thursday night, b/c TC in her FB replies on the KIFI page said that she threw away a dirty diaper of Deorr's from Friday morning. Thus, the family would have needed to arrive before Friday afternoon, at the very least.

Wait...was TC with them? I'm confused about the diaper?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Wait...was TC with them? I'm confused about the diaper?

I don't think we are allowed to post what TC said on FB.

 

[SweetT]

Since it appears there were other cases involving mountain lions I'm guessing this is what happened with Deorr but it still gives me no confidence in sar..three cases I've read about the children were all found later within a mile and one was 500 yards from missing point. .no confidence at all from me.

 

[Trident]

From what I've read David Paulides "believes" Sasquatch took these victims, but he does address many cases of the missing in various forest, camping, park, woods, etc locations.

Yes, I read a bit about the Dennis Martin case, Garrett Bardsley, Jarrd Negrete, JD Phillips. There's SO many I doubt I will ever read them all. Mountain lions are considered to be the most powerful animal in North America. Their power, stealth, leaping and jumping abilities, and how they stalk and close in on their selected prey, their ability to instantly kill much of their prey, not to mention their premolars, makes them a truly silent abductor/killer!

Thanks so much for your research on these victims.

Paulides never says in the Missing 411books that he believe sasquatch did it, although he did write at least one book on bigfoot. He leaves it strictly up to the reader to draw their own conclusions. He does say, however, that he was told by a park ranger that there were wild men in the park(s), whatever that means, and he does not go into much detail about it. Wild men in the parks, with furs/skins thrown over their shoulders, would not surprise me in the least. Hell, we have them walking down city sidewalks.

I just bought the book about Jared Atadaro, Missing, written by his father. I have yet to read it, but Paulides and the father is/was having a hard time believing a cougar took the child, even though some "experts" have called it a cougar attack. It seems to me, from a lot of articles, books, forums I've read, many parents have a hard time letting go, they seem to NEED to believe their child could still be alive somewhere.

Another good book is Cougar Attacksby Kathy Etling. She recounts cougar reports from the 1830s to roughly 2001.

 

[*JMO*]

I don't think we are allowed to post what TC said on FB.

Sorry, I didn't read your post carefully enough to realize you were referring to FB posts. However, now that I reread there was references to her posts so please explain how this works. How does posting about **edited by me** not equate to posting what she said?

I am not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't get don't get why somethings from FB are apparently ok but apparently a followup question regarding what was posted isn't.

 

[frisson]

We went camping last weekend along the Salmon River (near Riggins which is nowhere near Leadore, etc.) and there were fire restrictions in place - absolutely no fire allowed, even in designated fire pits. It made me wonder about DK's statement about leaving Deorr with grandpa by the campfire... I wonder if there were fire restrictions there as well - and most people don't build a fire right away, especially in the afternoon. Just thought it was strange. Not sure that it means anything, though.

Yes THIS ^^^^^
I thought it was super odd when the dad said that little "Deorr was ok (paraphrasing) with GGF by the fire" Why say "by the camp fire "or "by the fire?" It wasn't winter and snowing. I found it a little strange, but people say strange things under stress. ....(?)

 

[neesaki]

Seriously? Gosh these poor people. They lost their child.

Geez, how many times do I need to say I get it.... :dunno: :truce::truce::truce:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I wonder if LE treated the campground as a crime scene as soon as they got there? Or was it just assumed that Deorr wandered off? I want to know what procedures took place in the first hours after they arrived.

 

[*JMO*]

Yes THIS ^^^^^
I thought it was super odd when the dad said that little "Deorr was ok (paraphrasing) with GGF by the fire" Why say "by the camp fire "or "by the fire?" It wasn't winter and snowing. I found it a little strange, but people say strange things under stress. ....(?)

There was discussion of this on an earlier thread. Several campers said they started campfires as a part of their routine regardless of the season. I didn't find it strange, a lot of people use the fire to make the breakfast, heat coffee, toast the marshmallows, etc.
IF GGP was sitting bythe fire, it sounded like a normal remark. GGP might get chilled easily or just enjoy the ambiance of the fire.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Sorry, I didn't read your post carefully enough to realize you were referring to FB posts. However, now that I reread there was references to her posts so please explain how this works. How does posting about a dirty diaper not equate to posting what she said?

I am not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't get don't get why somethings from FB are apparently ok but apparently a followup question regarding what was posted isn't.

I don't know the answer to your question but I'm not going to take the chance of getting banned.

 

[*JMO*]

Just an observation..if a family member is going to give pretty detailed answers to questions on SM it seems that it would be more productive to give a real media interview instead.

I wonder if there is some disagreement between family members regarding the way information is being decimated and this was a way of setting some of the record straight by the grandmother.

I just found it a little unusual to use that format for answering some of the more pertinent questions that have been asked here and everywhere else rather than using MSM or even have the actual POIs address the issues themselves though a reporter or other regular media source. Perhaps they have been told to remain silent but if so, it would still strike me as a bit unusual for GM to suddenly start answering questions from random people on FB. Just curious about the motive and how that went over with the rest of the family.

 

[Hoosier952]

I wonder if LE treated the campground as a crime scene as soon as they got there? Or was it just assumed that Deorr wandered off? I want to know what procedures took place in the first hours after they arrived.

I guessing they first assumed he had just wandered off. In the full interview by JM and Sr, Sr. mentioned there being so many SAR and LE there, there would be no place for volunteers to park. I'm not sure how quickly they began flooding in, but I assume with that many vehicles and people, any potential evidence would be obliterated in no time.

 

[ILOKAL]

Paulides never says in the Missing 411books that he believe sasquatch did it, although he did write at least one book on bigfoot. He leaves it strictly up to the reader to draw their own conclusions. He does say, however, that he was told by a park ranger that there were wild men in the park(s), whatever that means, and he does not go into much detail about it. Wild men in the parks, with furs/skins thrown over their shoulders, would not surprise me in the least. Hell, we have them walking down city sidewalks.

I just bought the book, Missing, written by his father. I have yet to read it, but Paulides and the father is/was having a hard time believing a cougar took the child, even though some "experts" have called it a cougar attack. It seems to me, from a lot of articles, books, forums I've read, many parents have a hard time letting go, they seem to NEED to believe their child could still be alive somewhere.

Another good book is Cougar Attacksby Kathy Etling. She recounts cougar reports from the 1830s to roughly 2001.

I agree with you and letting go. Jared Atadero's father would have rather believed his son was abducted, even though that was a remote, if not virtually impossible scenario. Of course, his son's very partial remains we're eventually found not far from where he disappeared.

I haven't read all these cases yet, but I hope to and they were only the ones on the first three pages of a google search: along with others we have already named there's Zwart, Hamm, Herdman, Capen, just to name a few. A read about a case yesterday (forgot the name) but I believe was in TN back in 1969 which resulted in a historical search. Turns out it's not far from where we tent camped two weeks ago. When selecting a park for camping, as cute as black bears are, I didn't want to camp with my 7-yr old grandson in areas like the Great Smokey Mountains and Cherokee National Forest where they exist in great numbers. Never in a million years did I even CONSIDER mountain lions. Why? Because the various agencies in charge of these national and state forests, parks, and campgrounds, apparently don't want us to know because they don't warn us of mountain lions. Lots of lost revenue. At least that's MY opinion. Of course, turns out that since mountain lions are so easily adapted to various areas, anywhere the area is large enough more than likely DOES have mountain lions. As we drove home from our TN cabin, through Mississippi and Alabama, the highways of which were bordered by plenty of lion habitat, caused me to never look at those landscapes in the same way I used to. It's really been an eye-opener.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

There are new TC posts on FB, the latest being 20 minutes ago.

 

[jmcgladr]

Wait...was TC with them? I'm confused about the diaper?

I haven't read that far yet, but it would seem she would have needed to be present to have possession of the diaper - unless she picked it up after the fact/after the search started? I guess we should all just read all of TC's post since we can't discuss them...

 

[Wendy101]

So then I assume Deorr was seen by the store clerk on Thursday Night at 7pm filthy and bawling?

When dad addressed this rumor.. He said he was there "as a family" at 1:00 and that how can he be at the store when he was busy searching,, can't remember his exact working..

he should have just said that was Thursday night in our way to the campground.. We stopped.. Deorr was cranky .. Etc ect.. I wonder why he didn't handle this rumor appropriately.

 

[jmcgladr]

Just an observation..if a family member is going to give pretty detailed answers to questions on SM it seems that it would be more productive to give a real media interview instead.

I wonder if there is some disagreement between family members regarding the way information is being decimated and this was a way of setting some of the record straight by the grandmother.

I just found it a little unusual to use that format for answering some of the more pertinent questions that have been asked here and everywhere else rather than using MSM or even have the actual POIs address the issues themselves though a reporter or other regular media source. Perhaps they have been told to remain silent but if so, it would still strike me as a bit unusual for GM to suddenly start answering questions from random people on FB. Just curious about the motive and how that went over with the rest of the family.

I agree, maybe SM is the way this family is accustomed to communicating, but it sure makes it hard for the public to have access to the information (unless they know to look in a news organization's FB page's comment section) and it's hard for us to discuss it here too. She has a right not to talk to the media, but it would be nice if she or some of the family members who were actually there would give an interview!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I guessing they first assumed he had just wandered off. In the full interview by JM and Sr, Sr. mentioned there being so many SAR and LE there, there would be no place for volunteers to park. I'm not sure how quickly they began flooding in, but I assume with that many vehicles and people, any potential evidence would be obliterated in no time.

This is what I am afraid of and I hope it isn't true. Reminds me of the Ramsey case, where LE did not take the proper procedures in the first hours of the case, treating the house like a crime scene, and it had a lasting, negative effect on the entire investigation.

 

[ClaireNC]

While we cannot quote or discuss them openly here, I really urge you all to go read Trina Clegg (JM's mother) answers to (respectful) questions on the post here, which was linked uphread

https://www.facebook.com/LocalNews8/posts/10153538256878872

They appear as replies under a comment by a KG where she asks if grandpa was questioned. It helps if you sort by most recent.

It clears up a lot of speculation and questions here and may help keep the thread more on track if we don't have to bicker over things like what the FBI is doing, the EMT bag or what vehicles were at the site and if there are search warrants.

Hopefully one of the reporters will reach out to TC to get those points on the record for us.

Excellent post Vail! Thank you, Thank you! Jessica's sister also makes some comments under a post by a woman named AM.
:bump:

 

[Hoosier952]

Anyone familiar with SAR training and protocol willing to answer a few questions for me?

For the initial SAR operations, do you send in your best SAR team or is it more about numbers?

A brief Google search about SAR training leads me to several courses that are 1-3 days long. Is this all it takes to get certified? I assume there are more extensive courses available, but do they only send out those with the more extensive training? Does one have to be re-certified within a certain time period? Is one required to meet so many hours of coursework in a given period?