ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #6

[pepelepolecat]

You read my mind. I keep thinking what a sweet thing to do taking GGP to his favorite camping spot. How many young couples do that?

The mistake this young couple made was leaving young DeOrr with GGP who isn't probably at his best watching small children.

I am sure if they could take back that moment in time they surely would do that.

I'd imagine ggp is devastated as well.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I have a question about finding somebody in the water...How do you know for sure, the person stumbled in and drowned and it was not the cause of another person putting them in there? It's all so sad to even contemplate.

Learning from different cases here on WS, there is almost no way to determine a forced drowning verses an accidental drowning if there are no distinguishing marks to indicate a previous struggle. The majority of the college aged men who went missing after drinking on campus, at parties, or in bars (last seen or heard from walking at night alone) and ended up in the water left no clues...were determined by the ME to have died from accidental drownings. The lack of evidence to indicate otherwise left no choice, but many believe the boys deaths were the result of foul play.

Here is some information on drowning:

Indeed there may well be occasions when it proves difficult to establish whether or not the deceased was alive when they entered the water; this is because that even if an individual is deceased when they enter the water, providing the body remains submerged for a period of time, then the lungs will fill up anyway.

Occasionally a condition called 'dry drowning' may present itself; this is where the deceased's larynx has gone into spasm as water has entered the throat, thus the passage to the lungs is blocked and any water that is already in there cannot get out and more water cannot get in.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/drowning.html

(Parents should be aware of the signs of dry drowning. It can happen with a few tablespoons of liquid from a pool or other source.)

 

[gitana1]

I am going to disagree.. there is a TOTAL picture to be viewed. Demeanor, speech (not reverse speech) control, actions etc all play into how principals are viewed by LE and the public at large. Perfect example is when people say "oh they lawyered up" DAMN RIGHT! Never talk to the cops without a lawyer.. that is self-preservation 101. I wouldnt bat an eye if these people did get lawyers.. they are foolish not to. No, none of us would know how we would react but there are certain commonalities and certain things that would send up a red flag. Trying to control the media. trying to control others opinions, others speculations, lack of information, not appearing on the news and talk shows and whatever you need to do to get his photo out there ESPECIALLY if you believe he was abducted, is counter productive to the goal of returning the baby. Missing and exploited children encourage media exposure.


People are going to talk no matter what you do.. WHO CARES?????????? JMO

I agree that demeanor affects public perception. But I disagree that public perception is wrong about lawyering up or that lawyering up is self preservation 101. As a parent, doing whatever it takes to get your baby back IS self preservation. Including talking to cops whenever and how often they like, without a lawyer. IMO. My non-professional opinion.

That's human behavior 101. I have never seen an innocent parent grab a lawyer and refuse to talk without one present at the outset of a missing kid case. Lots of guilty ones, but not innocent.

No innocent parent would even begin to think about their own, personal liberties or rights in the face of the nuclear bomb that a missing child creates in their lives. Unless they are toyally sociopathic and don't care about their kids.

 

[Floridian]

I took a few days break from reading all this, just to clear my head, Ive had allot going on in my life, my gpa passed away, and its been heart breaking, almost too much to bare, but enough about me, during the thinking ive been doing, I stopped thinking of what everyone was saying, and only decided to put the facts together... FACTS only, even the facts still are not good for the POI and make no sense!!!! The little things , leaving him behind etc...

<modsnip>

If he truly walked off, and that's the truth, then hes in that water. I don't care what anyone says!!!!! I've seen so many times with my very own eyes, search parties, divers, infrared sonar over water etc............ and missing people not be found until weeks, months later.......... so many places in the water for a adult body to be unseen in water, imagine a babies......... It may sound impossible to think that, but I have seen first hand that divers, cameras dropped in water, heat sonar etc.. couldn't find it........

<modsnip>

Of course, I want to believe the parties involved are innocent, and know nothing, and this was a terrible accident I want nothing more for them to get closure and peace if thats the case! My heart truly hurts for this baby, and his loved ones.

<modsnip> If I'm wrong, and it wouldn't be the 1st time, I'm truly sorry for the parents, and I know this is a living, breathing walking nightmare everyday and night!!!! \

ONLY TIME WILL TELL
These are only my thoughts and opinions!

 

[jmcgladr]

Guys, you are WEBSLEUTHS, why is it taking 4 pages of thread to suss out what's in an EMT bag? a simple Google search is all that is required.
First result that comes up when I punch in "what is in an EMT bag?"

https://www.google.ca/search?q=what...l5.3023j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

ALS/prescription drugs: This area is a no-go zone for many teams for a variety of reasons. If the medic is authorized by a physician Medical Director, they may be authorized to be an ALS provider. Our team has an AED and first-line ACLS drugs. In addition we carry aspirin, nitroglycerin, albuterol (Proventil), ondansetron (Zofran) and ketorolac tromethamine (Toradol), a non-narcotic NSAID analgesic drug.

I also recently learned that EMT bags may contain sharp implements such as seat belt cutters, perhaps that is another concern when an EMT bag is stolen?

 

[Trident]

I took a few days break from reading all this, just to clear my head, Ive had allot going on in my life, my gpa passed away, and its been heart breaking, almost too much to bare, but enough about me, during the thinking ive been doing, I stopped thinking of what everyone was saying, and only decided to put the facts together... FACTS only, even the facts still are not good for the POI and make no sense!!!! The little things , leaving him behind etc...

<modsnip>

If he truly walked off, and that's the truth, then hes in that water. I don't care what anyone says!!!!! I've seen so many times with my very own eyes, search parties, divers, infrared sonar over water etc............ and missing people not be found until weeks, months later.......... so many places in the water for a adult body to be unseen in water, imagine a babies......... It may sound impossible to think that, but I have seen first hand that divers, cameras dropped in water, heat sonar etc.. couldn't find it........

Although, Im still convinced whole heartedly, that someone knows something, someone close!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothings adding up! NOTHING!!! Even the events that led up to the disappearance! Now, the stillness of the case, the secrets, the contradictions...

Of course, I want to believe the parties involved are innocent, and know nothing, and this was a terrible accident I want nothing more for them to get closure and peace if thats the case! My heart truly hurts for this baby, and his loved ones.

Something, is not right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I'm wrong, and it wouldn't be the 1st time, I'm truly sorry for the parents, and I know this is a living, breathing walking nightmare everyday and night!!!! \

ONLY TIME WILL TELL
These are only my thoughts and opinions!

In many cases where children go missing there appears to be something wrong big time. Even after the case is supposedly solved, the questions linger. In the case of Laura Bradbury, missing from a campground, and remains found, questions/weirdness still lingers over 30 years later.
http://www.lacp.org/2010-Articles-Main/092010-TheMysteryOfLauraBradbury.htm

 

[Floridian]

In many cases where children go missing there appears to be something wrong big time. Even after the case is supposedly solved, the questions linger. In the case of Laura Bradbury, missing from a campground, and remains found, questions/weirdness still lingers over 30 years later.
http://www.lacp.org/2010-Articles-Main/092010-TheMysteryOfLauraBradbury.htm

Completely agree! Its not a dog, or cat, or animal missing, its a child, a baby! Someone made a great point I thought about couple weeks ago, and discussed with my hubby. The idea of the drowning, how would one know if he fell in, or something sinister happened... Those thoughts already been wondering around in my head! Ya know.....

 

[Jules71]

I took a few days break from reading all this, just to clear my head, Ive had allot going on in my life, my gpa passed away, and its been heart breaking, almost too much to bare

sbm

Floridian, I'm so sorry to hear about your gpa. ((hugs))

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[katydid23]

I'd be interested to see what the drugs are...

Generally, prescription drugs need to be written for a specific patient. In my particular nursing job, I have a stock of prescription drugs for which I have a standing order. So if I had a patient in anaphylaxis, for example, I have epinephrine and I have an order from a doctor that lines out the parameters under which I can administer it. There's nothing I have, in my particular situation, that would be interesting to a drug addict. Rules for who can administer what varies from state to state, though, so there is definitely room for variation from I've experienced.

I don't know why an EMT bag would have any type of particular significance in this case. Howevever, if hypothetically there was some kind of "smash and grab" type of theft that occurred close to where a child disappeared, that would have my interest piqued. It's a brazen thing to do (especially in a camping situation in a state where citizens really like to exercise their 2nd amendment rights) and just not something that happens.

This is similar to the one my son carries in his truck [ locked in a metal box]:

http://www.emory.edu/EEMS/JumpBag.html


Sharps Container: a hard-sided box for the disposal of needles and other materials which may pose a puncture hazard to the EMT
Drug Kit: Contains oral glucose, nail polish remover and insect wipes
Activated Charcoal: a high surface area form of charcoal which binds to ingested substances and prevents absorption
Blood Pressure Cuffs: three sizes for adult, pediatric and obese patients
Glucometer: used to determine the blood glucose level of patients and assess for hyper- or hypoglycemia
Pulse-Oximeter: measures the oxygen saturation in the patient's blood
Saline and Non-Sterile 4x4s: used for cleansing wounds
Thermometer
Tape: carried in 1", 2" and 3" sizes
EMS Field Guides
Trauma Shears: for the removal of a patient's clothes which are interfering with a proper medical assessment or treatment
Pen Light: used to assess a patient's pupillary response
Stethoscope: used both for listening to the patient's heart and lungs
Miscellaneous: isagel (water-free hand sanitizer), window punch, face mask, razor, ring cutter, tongue depressors, hydrogen peroxide, convenience bags and multi-trauma dressings
Epi-Pens: epinephrine autoinjectors, both pediatric and adult, used in the treatment of anaphylaxis
Band-Aids
Tape
Saline Flushes: these are used to flush an IV line when it is not going to be connected to a normal saline drip, thus avoiding clotting and ensuring a patent line
Needles: BD Insyte Autoguard Shielded IV Catheter, in sizes of 16, 28, 20 and 22 gauge
Catheter Extension Set
Iodine Prep: an iodine solution used to cleanse the IV site, generally not
used because of the risk of allergic reaction
IV Start Kit: contains 2 gauze pads, a tourniquet, a Tegaderm dressing, catheter extension tubing and an alcohol prep pad
Albuterol Ampules (not pictured): 2.5 mg ampules of albuterol
administered to patients experiencing a moderate to severe asthma attack
D50 (not pictured): 25 mg of a 50% dextrose solution administered via slow IV push to hypoglycemic patients
Hot and Cold Packs: chemical hot and cold packs
Sterile Dressings: includes sterile 4x4s, combine dressings, eye pads, petroleum gauze and masks

Looking at the list, I guess it would be the needles that would be interesting to a drug addict. They could also sell the albuterol and the epi pens, I suppose.

 

[Jules71]

This is similar to the one my son carries in his truck [ locked in a metal box]:

http://www.emory.edu/EEMS/JumpBag.html


Sharps Container: a hard-sided box for the disposal of needles and other materials which may pose a puncture hazard to the EMT
Drug Kit: Contains oral glucose, nail polish remover and insect wipes
Activated Charcoal: a high surface area form of charcoal which binds to ingested substances and prevents absorption
Blood Pressure Cuffs: three sizes for adult, pediatric and obese patients
Glucometer: used to determine the blood glucose level of patients and assess for hyper- or hypoglycemia
Pulse-Oximeter: measures the oxygen saturation in the patient's blood
Saline and Non-Sterile 4x4s: used for cleansing wounds
Thermometer
Tape: carried in 1", 2" and 3" sizes
EMS Field Guides
Trauma Shears: for the removal of a patient's clothes which are interfering with a proper medical assessment or treatment
Pen Light: used to assess a patient's pupillary response
Stethoscope: used both for listening to the patient's heart and lungs
Miscellaneous: isagel (water-free hand sanitizer), window punch, face mask, razor, ring cutter, tongue depressors, hydrogen peroxide, convenience bags and multi-trauma dressings
Epi-Pens: epinephrine autoinjectors, both pediatric and adult, used in the treatment of anaphylaxis
Band-Aids
Tape
Saline Flushes: these are used to flush an IV line when it is not going to be connected to a normal saline drip, thus avoiding clotting and ensuring a patent line
Needles: BD Insyte Autoguard Shielded IV Catheter, in sizes of 16, 28, 20 and 22 gauge
Catheter Extension Set
Iodine Prep: an iodine solution used to cleanse the IV site, generally not
used because of the risk of allergic reaction
IV Start Kit: contains 2 gauze pads, a tourniquet, a Tegaderm dressing, catheter extension tubing and an alcohol prep pad
Albuterol Ampules (not pictured): 2.5 mg ampules of albuterol
administered to patients experiencing a moderate to severe asthma attack
D50 (not pictured): 25 mg of a 50% dextrose solution administered via slow IV push to hypoglycemic patients
Hot and Cold Packs: chemical hot and cold packs
Sterile Dressings: includes sterile 4x4s, combine dressings, eye pads, petroleum gauze and masks

Looking at the list, I guess it would be the needles that would be interesting to a drug addict. They could also sell the albuterol and the epi pens, I suppose.

Activated Charcoal: a high surface area form of charcoal which binds to ingested substances and prevents absorption

That could be another reason for stealing an EMT bag - someone could have eaten something poisonous (drugs?).

Eta: Speculating about the emt bag brought up in parent's interview.
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[Jules71]

I just get the impression the emt bag is related. I feel like it might have to do with something that happened to little Deorr.

It's either a strange coincidence or something hinky - like the cremains. Just my opinion!

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[Floridian]

Activated Charcoal: a high surface area form of charcoal which binds to ingested substances and prevents absorption

That could be another reason for stealing an EMT bag - someone could have eaten something poisonous (drugs?).

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very confused... can someone please catch me up on it being stolen.... what was stolen? The EMT bag? Who was is stolen from? Im sorry, I completely missed that part..
I knew there was one, but didnt know it was stolen.... I myslef have one.... somewhere... now im gonna look for it....

 

[Floridian]

Activated Charcoal: a high surface area form of charcoal which binds to ingested substances and prevents absorption

That could be another reason for stealing an EMT bag - someone could have eaten something poisonous (drugs?).

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but if it were jus for needles, they can be bought by boxes at pharmacies.... I wouldn't think it would be for needles... since they can be gotten so quick.. right?

 

[Jules71]

Speculating on the EMT bag that was brought up by a woman off camera in the parent's video interview --

Hypothetically, let's say a vehicle nearby was broken into sometime between the 911 call and BEFORE the time SAR arrived and an EMT bag was stolen... what are the possible scenarios that this could relate to little Deorr missing? And why would someone off screen think it should be brought up but the parents chose not to address it?

Also, we know that JM made the first call to 911 and Deorr Sr was hauling down the road to get service so his call wouldn't cut out. I'm wondering if he knew JM was going to call. I'm wondering if he told her not to call (because it might get cut off) and said that he would call. I'm just thinking that in a similar situation my instinct would be to call immediately and my husband's would be to keep looking. I wonder if DK returned to JM right away after the call or if he decided to look around further down the road near where he made the call.

I sure hope little Deorr is found soon.

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I think the stolen EMT bag, if true, is interesting for a couple of reasons. My son used to be an EMT and he still carries a bag in his truck. He is very careful to hide it from view because he says the 'drugs' inside of it are very tempting to thieves.

So it makes me wonder if some druggie/thieves were out and about in the immediate area, looking for things to steal. It makes it seem more likely that lil DeOrr might have been abducted. JMO

very confused... can someone please catch me up on it being stolen.... what was stolen? The EMT bag? Who was is stolen from? Im sorry, I completely missed that part..
I knew there was one, but didnt know it was stolen.... I myslef have one.... somewhere... now im gonna look for it....

The posts above will fill you in. We are speculating and talking hypotheticals. &#128521;

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[Floridian]

sbm

Floridian, I'm so sorry to hear about your gpa. ((hugs))

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thank u. very sweet!

 

[crh8]

hypothetically an emt bag could be large enough to put a small child in unnoticed. They have them for sale on Amazon, stocked or empty..anyone can buy the bag. It would be interesting to know if the bag was stolen from a first responder.

 

[Floridian]

hypothetically an emt bag could be large enough to put a small child in unnoticed. They have them for sale on Amazon, stocked or empty..anyone can buy the bag. It would be interesting to know if the bag was stolen from a first responder.

well, it was asked ab in the interview... and never explained.. thats a very good point and question...

 

[katydid23]

I just get the impression the emt bag is related. I feel like it might have to do with something that happened to little Deorr.

It's either a strange coincidence or something hinky - like the cremains. Just my opinion!

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I find it interesting because it shows us that there were other people out and about up there during the time DeOrr got lost. I was feeling that there were no other vehicles around but looks like there were. And one of them was actually lurking about, looking into places to break into. So that is a red flag right there. JMO

 

[rkf]

I find it interesting because it shows us that there were other people out and about up there during the time DeOrr got lost. I was feeling that there were no other vehicles around but looks like there were. And one of them was actually lurking about, looking into places to break into. So that is a red flag right there. JMO

If there was an EMT rumor (as mentioned in the parents' interview) we don't know the timing. Could have been any time between their arrival at the campground and the interview - perhaps during the search.

ETA: If an EMT bag was stolen from a truck the day after DeOrr disappeared, during the search, I don't see how that could be twisted into a rumor that had to do with DeOrr's disappearance. It would be bad that someone among the searchers would steal from a searcher, but given that someone walked onto the scene and dumped cremains in the reservoir, we already know it wasn't a secure scene. It seems like the person off-camera who mentioned the EMT bag placed a lot of importance on the bag, but I don't see why. Someone mentioned DK and JM might be afraid someone would link the theft to drug use, but if it happened once searchers and LE were already at the campsite, I don't see why that would even occur to them.

That it was mentioned off camera rather insistently, JM started to answer and then DK interrupted her and launched into a story about rumors such as his boss not letting him off work... makes me think the bag meant more to them for a reason that I haven't considered. An EMT bag stolen out of a pick up truck during the search doesn't add up to a sinister "rumor" to me. JMO

 

[starfire]

I noticed that the store in Leadore is up for sale for $199,500. Since we have been discussing it so much I thought some might want to check out indoor/outdoor pics of the place.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/100-S-Railroad-St-Leadore-ID-83464/2110162487_zpid/