ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[ninij9]

We are at a dead end at the moment. When the FBI reports its findings back to LE then maybe we will get answers. I am not even sure if anyone is still up there regularly to search. I cannot imagine the pain of DeOrrs loved ones at such a time. They are in limbo without any closure.

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[kammiemc]

Never would have thought of it but I agree. Jmo

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

[LietKynes]

<modsnip>

RSBM

Marking my spot yet again.

Sad for this little guy, and am now thinking he might not be found until some of his remains or clothing is found--or both.

Just not quite convinced that an animal or human predator didn't take him.
Many strange things about this case, yet I feel some of it's due to some inaccurate information from some of the msm sources.
Thanks to the many posters on this thread who have kept the interest ongoing in finding little DeOrr !
:moo:

 

[Morag]

Someone not too far upthread posited that perhaps the parents were gone on their little walk for a longer time than they had thought, and that when they looked at the time on the (presumably Stage Stop) receipt they realized they had been gone more than ten minutes. Have we actually heard what time that receipt said? Or if it was on the 9th or the 10th? If someone can point me to that information, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Someone not too far upthread posited that perhaps the parents were gone on their little walk for a longer time than they had thought, and that when they looked at the time on the (presumably Stage Stop) receipt they realized they had been gone more than ten minutes. Have we actually heard what time that receipt said? Or if it was on the 9th or the 10th? If someone can point me to that information, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

It was on Friday 10th, seemingly in the morning some time. But no, the police have never confirmed what time was on the receipt.

They have that information but we haven't. Yet. If we ever. I mean who knows? Not us. You'd think we'd know more than we do already. 6 weeks in and still nada nil nowt.

 

[Hoosier952]

OK, been away for a while, but wanted to jump in with some thoughts. IMO of course.

The creek- someone posted some new pictures of the creek a few pages back. It made it appear far more treacherous than the video shown earlier in the investigation. I'm wondering when the new pictures were taken. Was that after a recent rain? Early in spring when snow is melting? Or around the same general time as the news video? (I think it was from the news, but it's been a while since I've watched it.) I guess what I'm getting at is a creek can have huge variations from day to day, season to season, year to year. I'd expect it to be pretty shallow and not moving too quickly in July and August unless there had been recent rains. Of course, I haven't seen the creek in person and have only seen small portions of it online, so it could be a completely different beast.

I also think it's possible that the initial arrival date of Friday was a misunderstanding, not necessarily an omission, but assumption based on information given. Or maybe they just didn't ask the right questions. Maybe LE simply asked "what time did you guys get here today?" Everyone assumes they mean what time did they get back to camp. If Deorr truly wandered off, as a parent, I cannot imagine thinking our arrival yesterday is important since my child went missing today and I saw them today and I know they were at camp after we got back from the store.

I don't think IR is responsible for the disappearance. Yeah, he's got a criminal record. But it's a pretty big leap to murderer of a stranger's child. He'd have to know his record would make him guilty if they found Deorr. Even if he had been missing an hour, it would be pretty hard to kill a child and somehow hide a child where he wouldn't be found for 5 weeks, especially without 3 other people noticing. I think, if anything, his semi-nude interview and his record rule him out.

Regarding the Sheriff's interview. I don't know why he chose two different words to describe IR's vs other 3's cooperation with the investigation. I realize IR was singled out from the rest, but why not just say he's cooperating along with everyone else who was at camp? To me, using two different words means there are two different perceptions. Truthful seems to stress LE believe he is being honest, where as cooperating sounds much more, I don't know, forced? Questionable? Cooperation just doesn't sound as positive. Maybe I'm reading into it far too much.

I still don't understand how many times the story has changed. And maybe that's why IR's been seen as truthful. Maybe his story has been consistent from day one. It just really bugs me that we've got a missing kid and 4 people can't get the story straight. Someone's fishing, someone's hiking, someone's watching a kid, someone's not watching a kid, someone's 50 yds away, someone's 10 minutes away, somone's 150 yds away. Deorr's missing 1 hour, missing 10 minutes, missing 4 minutes. He can't walk well, he gets around pretty well, his boots are falling off, his boots are just too big.

I also don't understand why LE can't make up their minds. Not abducted, not eaten by a predator, no foul play, just wandered off, possibly drown, possibly in the wilderness, remote possibility he was never even there. Yet we have a crime scene and evidence. I'm excited to see what the FBI can do to add to the confusion.

 

[pepelepolecat]

We don't know what's going on in DeOrr's parents' lives right now. I'm sure people are jumping to conclusions and finding ways to make this harder than it has to be. I mean, just the comments on the Find DeOrr Facebook page were hurtful and cruel. If this case were getting more attention they'd likely be getting harassed by the media too. They live in a small town where I'm sure people talk. Who knows how their neighbors, family members, and co-workers are treating them.

Is a town of 60k (give or take a few thousand) really considered that small? It's not terribly big, perhaps, but it's the second-largest Idaho city behind Boise.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

:goodpost: hoosier952

 

[TxJan1971]

Someone not too far upthread posited that perhaps the parents were gone on their little walk for a longer time than they had thought, and that when they looked at the time on the (presumably Stage Stop) receipt they realized they had been gone more than ten minutes. Have we actually heard what time that receipt said? Or if it was on the 9th or the 10th? If someone can point me to that information, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

It was on Friday 10th, seemingly in the morning some time. But no, the police have never confirmed what time was on the receipt.

They have that information but we haven't. Yet. If we ever. I mean who knows? Not us. You'd think we'd know more than we do already. 6 weeks in and still nada nil nowt.

Adding:

The Sheriff's interview transcript with Nate Eaton is in the Media Timeline. I clipped the specific quote to keep it together here. The link is provided below in case you want to review the entire interview.

Nate Eaton:
“Bowerman is opening up about the case that has so many unanswered questions. He says late on Thursday, July 9th, not Friday, Deorr, his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of grandpa named Isaac Renwand arrive at Timber Creek. The next morning (which means they went to the store/got receipt on Friday, July 10) Bowerman tells me Deorr goes with his parents to a store in Leadore, about 20 minutes from the camp site.”

“Was there any surveillance captured of this boy, surveillance video?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:28
“I don’t believe they have surveillance, but we have, uh…a receipt that we documented that they purchased certain items. They were on the receipt. The time was stamped on the receipt, and so, we believe, ya’ know, that’s where they went.”
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08...orr-kunz-case/

***

No further information available in MSM re: the receipt other than what the Sheriff states above.

 

[iamnotagolem]

OK, been away for a while, but wanted to jump in with some thoughts. IMO of course.

The creek- someone posted some new pictures of the creek a few pages back. It made it appear far more treacherous than the video shown earlier in the investigation. I'm wondering when the new pictures were taken. Was that after a recent rain? Early in spring when snow is melting? Or around the same general time as the news video? (I think it was from the news, but it's been a while since I've watched it.) I guess what I'm getting at is a creek can have huge variations from day to day, season to season, year to year. I'd expect it to be pretty shallow and not moving too quickly in July and August unless there had been recent rains. Of course, I haven't seen the creek in person and have only seen small portions of it online, so it could be a completely different beast.

RSBM

I wondered the same thing. The river by our house can change drastically over night. I'd like to know how deep/fast the creek was when Deorr went missing. Not what it looks like now, as that isn't really relevant.

 

[ninij9]

OK, been away for a while, but wanted to jump in with some thoughts. IMO of course.

The creek- someone posted some new pictures of the creek a few pages back. It made it appear far more treacherous than the video shown earlier in the investigation. I'm wondering when the new pictures were taken. Was that after a recent rain? Early in spring when snow is melting? Or around the same general time as the news video? (I think it was from the news, but it's been a while since I've watched it.) I guess what I'm getting at is a creek can have huge variations from day to day, season to season, year to year. I'd expect it to be pretty shallow and not moving too quickly in July and August unless there had been recent rains. Of course, I haven't seen the creek in person and have only seen small portions of it online, so it could be a completely different beast.

I also think it's possible that the initial arrival date of Friday was a misunderstanding, not necessarily an omission, but assumption based on information given. Or maybe they just didn't ask the right questions. Maybe LE simply asked "what time did you guys get here today?" Everyone assumes they mean what time did they get back to camp. If Deorr truly wandered off, as a parent, I cannot imagine thinking our arrival yesterday is important since my child went missing today and I saw them today and I know they were at camp after we got back from the store.

I don't think IR is responsible for the disappearance. Yeah, he's got a criminal record. But it's a pretty big leap to murderer of a stranger's child. He'd have to know his record would make him guilty if they found Deorr. Even if he had been missing an hour, it would be pretty hard to kill a child and somehow hide a child where he wouldn't be found for 5 weeks, especially without 3 other people noticing. I think, if anything, his semi-nude interview and his record rule him out.

Regarding the Sheriff's interview. I don't know why he chose two different words to describe IR's vs other 3's cooperation with the investigation. I realize IR was singled out from the rest, but why not just say he's cooperating along with everyone else who was at camp? To me, using two different words means there are two different perceptions. Truthful seems to stress LE believe he is being honest, where as cooperating sounds much more, I don't know, forced? Questionable? Cooperation just doesn't sound as positive. Maybe I'm reading into it far too much.

I still don't understand how many times the story has changed. And maybe that's why IR's been seen as truthful. Maybe his story has been consistent from day one. It just really bugs me that we've got a missing kid and 4 people can't get the story straight. Someone's fishing, someone's hiking, someone's watching a kid, someone's not watching a kid, someone's 50 yds away, someone's 10 minutes away, somone's 150 yds away. Deorr's missing 1 hour, missing 10 minutes, missing 4 minutes. He can't walk well, he gets around pretty well, his boots are falling off, his boots are just too big.

I also don't understand why LE can't make up their minds. Not abducted, not eaten by a predator, no foul play, just wandered off, possibly drown, possibly in the wilderness, remote possibility he was never even there. Yet we have a crime scene and evidence. I'm excited to see what the FBI can do to add to the confusion.

OK you've got all my frustrations into one paragraph!!!! Great post.
(Lol about the FBI adding to the confusion)[emoji57]
Anyhow, I hope it's just us here that are confused. I pray that LE has a clear accounting of time, people and places in this case but for their own reasons don't feel its important to share with the general public. I'm getting damned flashbacks to the AJ Hadsell timeline discrepancies.
They must know the answers we are so desperate to have, right?

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[bluesneakers]

Is a town of 60k (give or take a few thousand) really considered that small? It's not terribly big, perhaps, but it's the second-largest Idaho city behind Boise.

Yes, it's more of a small city than a small town. People still talk though, and when something as big as a child going missing happens I'm sure everyone in the city knows.

 

[carole]

(Subscribing)

 

[audsmommy]

Idaho Falls is the 4th largest city in Idaho. However, I do agree -- still small enough for the town gossip.

 

[Mickshawn]

I want to know: How much of that creek was checked? From one end to the other and then some?

 

[SCHMAE]

Find baby Deorr !

 

[Dee10]

Thur/Fri arrival - Here are the MSM facts both dated Aug. 18[SUP]th[/SUP]/15:

&#8220;Early in the investigation, there were conflicting reports about when the family arrived at the Timber Creek Campground in Leadore.

Authorities had said the group arrived Friday, July 10, but Bowerman said the group actually arrived late on Thursday, July 9.

The next morning, DeOrr&#8217;s parents said they took their son to a store about 20 minutes from the campsite.&#8221;

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/


Coupled with (same date) - From TxJan&#8217;s transcript BBM:


Nate Eaton:

&#8220;Let&#8217;s go back to the beginning. Can you kind of give us a timeline as to when the family arrived and what proceeded?&#8221;

Sheriff Bowerman:

&#8220;Well, the family, from what I understand, that we learned during the investigation arrived the evening prior to July 10th, sometime fairly close to dark on Thursday, July 9th,

 

[Arnie M]

OK, been away for a while, but wanted to jump in with some thoughts. IMO of course.

The creek- someone posted some new pictures of the creek a few pages back. It made it appear far more treacherous than the video shown earlier in the investigation. I'm wondering when the new pictures were taken. Was that after a recent rain? Early in spring when snow is melting? Or around the same general time as the news video? (I think it was from the news, but it's been a while since I've watched it.) I guess what I'm getting at is a creek can have huge variations from day to day, season to season, year to year. I'd expect it to be pretty shallow and not moving too quickly in July and August unless there had been recent rains. Of course, I haven't seen the creek in person and have only seen small portions of it online, so it could be a completely different beast.
.

Everything was provided in this post http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-July-2015-9&p=12008306&posted=1#post12008306

You will find pictures , a map , and a video of the creek , best part is from 1:57 to 2:20 , it shows the large rocks , deep pools , and how some water appears to deviate under the shore and reemerge farther down

It is entirely possible for a small body to slip deep under one of those rocks and be trapped there out of reach of a long searching arm. Also look at the beaver dam at the outlet of the reservoir at 0:45 .... the water runs under it , not over it. Same all the way down the creek , in places water flows over the rocks , other places under and around rocks.

The searchers have done quite a good job of probing the creek already , but people would be surprised how many large and deep cavities can be hidden under the big stones .

 

[neesaki]

I think so too. Ten minutes would mean they explored for five and then turned around, which imo is just a quick walk, and too soon to turn around if they thought DeOrr was napping. I'm not suggesting they lied, intentionally or otherwise, just that they might not have an accurate estimate. Maybe it felt like 10 minutes. I know when I'm out in the woods like that I'm not paying much attention to the time so I can understand not being certain.

Time DOES fly when you're having fun and we often lose track of time and are amazed to learn how quickly time has passed. The parents may have actually thought they WERE only away from the camp site for no more than ten minutes. Then, when they saw the time stamp on the receipt from the store against the time the 911 call was placed, and then added what they did between those two knowns, they may have realized they actually HAD left the camp site for longer than they originally thought and WAY longer than they had ever imagined. They may be having a difficult time accepting that and are feeling enormous guilt.

I have thought this as well, that they could have been gone longer than they realized, may not have even had a watch and have had no concept of the time. I say this, because I'm the world's worst at keeping track of time. I can say I'm going into the grocery store and I'm only going to spend fifteen minutes, yet when I walk out the door it's been 45 minutes to an hour. And since I don't exactly love the grocery store, I hate that! :gaah: I can also find myself claiming that I'm only going to sit down here at the computer and check out this forum for thirty minutes, and it ends up being an hour or longer. Yes, I'm the world's worst at keeping track of time, my mother is the same way, LOL. Guess I got it from her
I suppose my point is that the concept of time, one's internal clock, is a variable that is different for everyone.

 

[ClaireNC]

Everything was provided in this post http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-July-2015-9&p=12008306&posted=1#post12008306

You will find pictures , a map , and a video of the creek , best part is from 1:57 to 2:20 , it shows the large rocks , deep pools , and how some water appears to deviate under the shore and reemerge farther down

It is entirely possible for a small body to slip deep under one of those rocks and be trapped there out of reach of a long searching arm. Also look at the beaver dam at the outlet of the reservoir at 0:45 .... the water runs under it , not over it. Same all the way down the creek , in places water flows over the rocks , other places under and around rocks.

The searchers have done quite a good job of probing the creek already , but people would be surprised how many large and deep cavities can be hidden under the big stones .

<modsnip> I have seen other videos of the creek where it was very shallow. There is one video that shows some searchers in the water and the water was barely up to their angles. That one video is the only one where it looks like it is rushing water. I wonder if that was taken just after a storm or if it is one area of the creek that is particularly deep. I don't think it is like that "all the way down the creek."