ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[relay]

6-8 " deep at most ?????

I think some searchers might disagree , especially the guy on the right who has water over his knees , and there are deeper spots than that.

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View attachment 80379

source http://www.localnews8.com/news/Family-holds-vigil-for-missing-toddler/34151958

I agree with you Arnie. Depending on recent rainfall amounts, many quiet creeks can become loud and fast moving making characteristics of creeks vary from day to day. Also, In most shots of the Timber Creek, I noted a LOT of natural debris that a small child could easily be camouflaged by and/or held hidden.

 

[carbuff]

Exactly! How can the creek only have 6" of water, when Isaac went fishing in it?

Most fish are probably in the deep pools, which are behind the log jams, under or behind big rocks, etc.

Brook trout only need a few inches of water as long as it's cold enough.

 

[pepelepolecat]

LOL, Your answer did help me. I had the same thought about the remoteness of the campsite and the sparseness of cell phone towers in the area. That would definitely impact the accuracy of pinpointing location via cell phone. You also raised another question that I have. Does cell phone GPS track everywhere the phone has been?

It depends on the phone and what it is set up to do, according to my better half. His employer has issued his team cellphones with GPS trackers due to the natures of their jobs. It's an app, though, not something that is just automatically on the phone. And it's also NOT something that would be being used without the person's being aware of it since there are potentially serious privacy issues. (All this according to Mr. LePew, so please consider it my opinion only). There are some apps that can be brought up with a quick Google search, spy apps, GPS trackers, things like that.

 

[Mickshawn]

My post was deleted and I'm not sure why. Let me modify it and see if it sticks this time.

So why does it seem that great grandfather just let a 2 year old wander off toward the creek and not go after him?

"My dad was standing their watching him and he turned his head and then (Deorr) was gone," Clegg said. "It appears like he just vanished."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/grandma-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/
7/12/15

So when I come back up to get him and I yelled over to grandpa, uh, "Where is," you know, "Where is little DeOrr?" he, immediately, shocked, he says, "I thought he came up to you."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/
7/13/15

Grandfather assumes he’s gone down to them because he was within their (parents) line of sight and uh, wasn’t too far from the campground.

Primarily, the information we have is…grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he’s gone, and he’s assumed he’s gone over the bank.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

The sheriff said Grandpa saw that little DeOrr was within his parents line of sight and he presumes he went over the bank. Did he think his parents were right there too? JMO

Isaac says "as far as I know (he just disappeared) because Isaac wasn't there when DeOrr disappeared - he was at the creek, downstream from the parents according to the sheriff. He wonders if the reporter has talked to Grandpa because Grandpa was there and my guess is Grandpa later told Isaac he saw little DeOrr go toward his parents.


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Right!! WHY wouldn't he go off after him? Why would he presume anything??? That's just crazy! DID he go off after him and met the parents who were on the way back????? What happened in the moments/minutes after he just vanished into thin air?

 

[ClaireNC]

BBM - I must have missed this, is there a link to support this? TIA.

It is my opinion, I said Apparently, the FBI have... I base it on the fact that the PI was about to do a media push but has not done so. The family has said several times in social media that the sheriff asked them not to talk to the media. So consider it a rumor.

 

[Jules71]

Grandfather assumes he’s gone down to them because he was within their (parents) line of sight and uh, wasn’t too far from the campground.

Primarily, the information we have is…grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he’s gone, and he’s assumed he’s gone over the bank.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

Let's combine those two statements from Sheriff Bowerman:

grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he’s gone, and he’s assumed he’s gone over the bank -- down to them because he was within their (parents) line of sight and uh, wasn’t too far from the campground.

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[eileenhawkeye]

Apparently the FBI and sheriff have asked them not to go to the media. The question is why? The PI was about to do a media push when he made his renouncement about the 800 number and did that one interview. I wonder why that hasn't happened yet.

Is there a source for this? I am trying to envision a scenario where that makes sense, but coming up blank. If LE knew where Deorr was, knew that he was taken in by a nice couple and being treated with love and care, why wouldn't they rescue him right away? Not realistic at all since I don't think people are just driving through middle-of-nowhere Idaho looking for their next child. But let's pretend that this happened, and they don't want the couple to know that they are on their trail. Deorr's being treated well, so he can spend a few months with them. So the parents agree to not go to the media, but are having their PI say that they think their son was abducted? Are they on the same page with LE or not? I would think that if LE did not want anyone to get suspicious, they would have the parents act like they think Deorr was lost. Also, the PI spoke to the media after the FBI got involved, so did they decide to not follow their advice for a bit?

 

[relay]

Good question. None of it makes sense. If it were my child missing I would probably spend every minute searching, even if I suspected he wasn't there. Searching is doing something and it is better than doing nothing. IMO

It makes sense to me, and I would likely do the same. They may believe Deorr was abducted, but I believe they are also not ruling anything out. The one thing they can do is search the area.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

It is my opinion, I said Apparently, the FBI have... I base it on the fact that the PI was about to do a media push but has not done so. The family has said several times in social media that the sheriff asked them not to talk to the media. So consider it a rumor.

How do you know he was going to do a media push? He spoke to only one news outlet, a news outlet that got the only interview with the parents, the friend, and the sheriff. Wouldn't that be like saying the sheriff was about to do a media push because he also spoke to EIN?

 

[Jules71]

Right!! WHY wouldn't he go off after him? Why would he presume anything??? That's just crazy! DID he go off after him and met the parents who were on the way back????? What happened in the moments/minutes after he just vanished into thin air?

I think my comment got deleted because I explained why grandpa might have presumed. It seems obvious to me. No one would just let a 2 year old wander over a bank toward a creek ALONE. MOO

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[ClaireNC]

I agree with you Arnie. Depending on recent rainfall amounts, many quiet creeks can become loud and fast moving making characteristics of creeks vary from day to day. Also, In most shots of the Timber Creek, I noted a LOT of natural debris that a small child could easily be camouflaged by and/or held hidden.

The point about the 6 to 8 inches is that the water would not have carried him far. Yes, of course, there are holes where the water is deeper and places that make good habitat for fish. There are rocks and a lot of debris (logs, fallen trees, etc.) that he could have gotten stuck in in the immediate area of the campsite.

IMO. If he fell into the creek he would have been found in that immediate area. He would not have been washed downstream. The searchers did a very thorough job of searching the creek in the area near the campground. They turned over rocks and searched under and around every log according to what has been reported on various news sources that are all posted in the media thread.

 

[kammiemc]

Apparently the FBI and sheriff have asked them not to go to the media. The question is why? The PI was about to do a media push when he made his renouncement about the 800 number and did that one interview. I wonder why that hasn't happened yet.

We know from the sheriff's interview that he thinks abduction is the "least likely" of all possibilities for why DeOrr is missing. It might be a distracting logistical nightmare for him and his little staff to have to follow up on every bogus lead brought in by well-meaning people across the nation. Especially if he and the FBI have a good idea of what happened and are just trying to work out the evidence.

Add to that, maybe they don't want a slew of unfollowed leads to lay any potential groundwork for the defense should the case ever go to trial.

IMO, it seems like the sheriff might believe something happened to DeOrr at or around the campground. The reason I think this is because he's not buying into the abduction theory at all, yet he he did have drones come in and take overhead pics of the campground in case there is a trial. (It struck me that he specified that the drones were not there to aid in searching for DeOrr, just for potential pics for potential trial.) Anyway, he's all but ruled out every other possibility of what could have happened.

ETA: I have no idea whether the PI was asked to not try to get media attention. I was just responding to a post suggesting that might be so.

 

[haven71]

I skimmed through a FB site about Deorr last night. Someone had posted a picture, and alongside it some words about finding him. The background was of the reservoir, but in the foreground was a see-through (superimposed?) picture of Deorr. It really hit me hard, as if it were the spirit of that innocent little boy who is now most likely deceased. Tears actually streamed down my face. I don't know who, what, why where, or how, but I do know I sometimes become embroiled with these theories and lose sight of how tragic and sad this case really is.

 

[Jules71]

Just a thought, if DeOrr drowned in the creek and his body was moved, LE will be able to determine COD as drowning if his body is found, right? Is there a period of time where it would become impossible to tell?

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[cobalt sky]

It is my opinion, I said Apparently, the FBI have... I base it on the fact that the PI was about to do a media push but has not done so. The family has said several times in social media that the sheriff asked them not to talk to the media. So consider it a rumor.

Regarding the sheriff asking the family not to talk to the media rumor, I think it is important to put that into context. If the rumor is true, was the sheriff advising them not to talk to the media to protect the investigation, or was he advising them not to talk to the media because of their own concerns over the "rumors" that were so important to them? There is a big difference IMO.

 

[aussiemom]

I

Ginseng hunters and folks who hunt for shed antlers spend a great deal of time staring at the ground, often in harsh terrain, making them perfect for finding things that most people wouldn't see. And when you're focusing on something as small as a ginseng plant or trying to find a few tines sticking out of the weeds, you're far more likely to see something that doesn't belong. Ginseng hunters who are finding and digging ginseng get the added bonus of spending a lot of time at ground level, not only looking but feeling the ground beneath them. You see things you could never see standing up.

Isn't this how Holly bobo was found? I thought it was reported that her bones were found by Ginseng hunters.

 

[ClaireNC]

Is there a source for this? I am trying to envision a scenario where that makes sense, but coming up blank. If LE knew where Deorr was, knew that he was taken in by a nice couple and being treated with love and care, why wouldn't they rescue him right away? Not realistic at all since I don't think people are just driving through middle-of-nowhere Idaho looking for their next child. But let's pretend that this happened, and they don't want the couple to know that they are on their trail. Deorr's being treated well, so he can spend a few months with them. So the parents agree to not go to the media, but are having their PI say that they think their son was abducted? Are they on the same page with LE or not? I would think that if LE did not want anyone to get suspicious, they would have the parents act like they think Deorr was lost. Also, the PI spoke to the media after the FBI got involved, so did they decide to not follow their advice for a bit?

I have no idea why the FBI or the sheriff would tell the PI or the family not to talk to the media. I just think that is what happened after the PI announced that he was planning to go national. Please see my explanation below.

How do you know he was going to do a media push? He spoke to only one news outlet, a news outlet that got the only interview with the parents, the friend, and the sheriff. Wouldn't that be like saying the sheriff was about to do a media push because he also spoke to EIN?

In the interview at about the 4 minute mark, the PI says he "That's why I wanted to go, hopefully, go nationwide. We have a nationwide telephone number..." In PR speak, "going nationwide" means getting national media attention and that is how I interpreted it. Also at 8:50 he says that "he is hoping on, counting on the media to take the case up and take an interest in it and want to cooperate by broadcasting our nationwide tip line, that was put into effect this morning." To me that is a request for media attention.

That interview was released on Aug 11, now it's August 23 and we haven't heard another word out of the PI. Why did he even do that interview and set up a national tip line if he wasn't planning to draw attention to it through the media?

[video=youtube;-78P5ayOlRc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78P5ayOlRc[/video]

 

[ClaireNC]

Thank you for clarifying. Regarding the sheriff asking the family not to talk to the media rumor, I think it is important to put that into context. If the rumor is true, was the sheriff advising them not to talk to the media to protect the investigation, or was he advising them not to talk to the media because of their own concerns over the "rumors" that were so important to them? There is a big difference IMO.

IMO it could be either or both. Just something to think about.

 

[Mickshawn]

I skimmed through a FB site about Deorr last night. Someone had posted a picture, and alongside it some words about finding him. The background was of the reservoir, but in the foreground was a see-through (superimposed?) picture of Deorr. It really hit me hard, as if it were the spirit of that innocent little boy who is now most likely deceased. Tears actually streamed down my face. I don't know who, what, why where, or how, but I do know I sometimes become embroiled with these theories and lose sight of how tragic and sad this case really is.

I've seen photos (always the same photo) of DeOrr in front of some body of water and do NOT believe it is the reservoir in our current story. Unless the family had been there before at this particular reservoir in the recent past.

 

[kammiemc]

IMO it could be either or both. Just something to think about.

The other thing to consider is that maybe the PI's own investigation has led him to back off of the abduction scenario and that's why we haven't heard more about the tip line.