ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[ninij9]

I'm sure LE knows if there are security cameras in Leadore or not. Our town population is a little less than 4,000 people. Three years ago we got security cameras put inside and outside our small store. The city police actually stopped and told us how pleased they were that we were doing that. They actually noticed them. They have needed to come into our store twice to view our cameras for other things not concerning our business.

This town is 100? Believe me, they know.

I also wonder why they are protecting GGP so much. He was the last person to see Deorr. Isn't that the norm to interview the last person seeing the missing person? He can't be that mentally off/unstable if he is able to do a polygraph.

One more thing...I swear I heard the Sherriff say in the uncut interview it was a 20 minute trip to the Stage shop. We thought it was 40 here. But when I listened to it again, I didn't hear that. Maybe I heard it on a different version? The edited version wouldn't have anything on it that the uncut version had. Or maybe I re-listened to the edited version. I'm confused where I heard that.

Perhaps Grand pops and IR were drinking? Would the parents be protecting them to deflect criticism from their decision to leave their 2 year old with him?

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[ClaireNC]

I am so happy to see a softening in attitude towards the Sherrif and reporter here at Websleuths last night. This event is also very traumatic for officers that went out to save a baby and came back empty handed. The sherrif doesn't have to be a good speaker or show emotion for me to grasp that this case will mist likely haunt him for the rest of his life.
As for Nate, I think he has to avoid areas of questioning that could compromise this case.
In any event, I wish I lived nearby for one weekend. I would like to get six people together wearing those thigh high fishing boots and carry poles and walk that cursed creek and turn over every damned rock and poke every single bump until I am personally satisfied this sweet boy is not right there just waiting to be found. I don't usually get these urges either. But I'm sure that if hes not in that creek, then one of the four people present committed the foulest play imaginable. JMO, MOO.

I would be right there with you with those thigh high fishing boots. Great post, ninij9's

 

[pepelepolecat]

"If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.
This was by GGP who was not on the trip. He lives with the baby. The baby is 2 and 1/2. We are not talking about a child who rolls or crawls.. the GGP is specifically addressing his ggson's ability to AMBULATE..to WALK. . I am confident this child hasnt been wearing cowboy boots exclusively since he was of walking age. While the oversized boots dont help, he doesnt sleep with them on .. walks barefoot, at times i am sure.. and gets out of the bathtub barefoot. Without over-analyzing this.. IMO there is a problem with the boy's ability to walk. The fact that he is bowlegged might indicate rickets or some other problem or might mean nothing when assessing his ability to ambulate. BUT.. we have 2 conflicting statement.. one from GGP and one from Dad. JMO

Kids are usually bowlegged when little, but I wasn't sure when they outgrew it. I found an interesting link while looking it up:

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00230

Bowed legs are most evident when a child stands and walks. The most common symptom of bowed legs is an awkward walking pattern.

Toddlers with bowed legs usually have normal coordination, and are not delayed in learning how to walk. The amount of bowing can be significant, however, and can be quite alarming to parents and family members.

It sounds as though bowing is usually declining or resolved by 2.5 to 3 years of age but that it CAN affect the way a child walks until it resolves. I think that this combined with the too-big boots probably was enough to make him trip over his own feet. But I still suspect he could have gotten where he wanted to go without too much difficulty -- maybe tripped and fallen a lot but still gotten around pretty quickly. **

** But no, I don't think this little dude walked more than three miles anywhere and almost certainly wasn't sprinting down that incline/embankment without some help.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

I am so happy to see a softening in attitude towards the Sherrif and reporter here at Websleuths last night. This event is also very traumatic for officers that went out to save a baby and came back empty handed. The sherrif doesn't have to be a good speaker or show emotion for me to grasp that this case will mist likely haunt him for the rest of his life.
As for Nate, I think he has to avoid areas of questioning that could compromise this case.
In any event, I wish I lived nearby for one weekend. I would like to get six people together wearing those thigh high fishing boots and carry poles and walk that cursed creek and turn over every damned rock and poke every single bump until I am personally satisfied this sweet boy is not right there just waiting to be found. I don't usually get these urges either. But I'm sure that if hes not in that creek, then one of the four people present committed the foulest play imaginable. JMO, MOO.

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And I would go with you! I have the same desire and I understand fully why the deputy has gone up there so much.

Eta: I would even bring the fishing poles.

 

[Selah84]

Thinking about the surveillance cameras/video. At the link I posted, the store appears to have 1 or possibly 2 cameras or dummy cameras. Both are aimed at the alcohol in store (beer, liquor). They also sell ammunition I believe at the stage stop. Are there state laws or anything that states stores selling alcohol or ammunition must have video surveillance? Just curious.
http://salmonidahoproperty.com/defa...ch_content=office_listings&mls_number=2005677

 

[ninij9]

I would be right there with you with those thigh high fishing boots. Great post, ninij9's

Hey there Cat! ::wave::
I'm not going to judge his parents (TOS) but I would be doing that and other things EVERY DAY.

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[4senthia]

This is just a quick thought, not meaning to be condemning of the parents:
Since we know DK sr drives a truck and there was some talk of trouble w/ his employer during the unedited initial interview. We never got a complete answer as to what that was all about but he did say his employer had been great about it and was even helping to search.
Now we have the deputy interjecting in the latest interview saying :Yeah! They stopped for diesel. (my words)
Many truckers have a gas/diesel card in case they need to refill.
Could the supposed "problem" w/ DK sr's boss have stemmed from him using that card for personal reasons?
IDK I'm still in need of coffee. Hope that makes some kind of sense. For some reason the deputy interjected the "Yeah!".
jmho

 

[Onebest]

.

As I said earlier , it is doubtful DeOrr headed in the direction of his parents , otherwise they would have encountered him on their way back to the campsite

Most likely DeOrr headed in the opposite direction because he saw Issac go that way earlier (without Issac realizing it , or knowing it)

Most likely the child stepped over the edge of the steep bank and tumbled into the creek , just a bounce or two and he is in the water , no scent trail for dogs to follow


http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

Snipped for brevity...
Great Pics Arnie M! Thanks. I so appreciate the visual! I do believe that IF (big IF here) the Sheriff's K9 was on little Deoors trail and it went to the edge of the embankment and "bounced" down so to speak...the dog still would have been able to follow. Trailing dogs do not follow foot step to foot step, they follow the scent trail, it moves around with the terrain, so he would not have lost the direction of travel. He would in the very least lead LE to the creek, not up towards the Rez.

That being said I totally can see what you are talking about in that creek, the little tiny guy would be easy to miss. Sadly,he would also be easy to miss in the Rez although, not as much current from the looks of it? I don't think a body would do much at first except go straight down. The soft silt at bottom would be a huge problem for divers, robots and the like. Thanks again for pics. Very helpful to me.
JMO on the dog stuff...

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Diesel fuel. Why the differentiation between plain old fuel and diesel fuel? Would diesel fuel be used for anything other than a vehicle's gas tank?

 

[Roselvr]

This is my first post but I have been following since thread one. I also followed Jerolds case in Az, so very tragic and sad he wasn't found in time. But this little Deorr case has me scratching my head, there have been so many mysteries and oddities, and I have bounced around from theory to theory.
I don't believe Deorr jr.went down the bank, or tumbled down to the creek. I think if he did, he probably wouldn't be missing today because he would have cried, and one of the three would have seen or heard him and went and got him.The sherriff states today, "grandfather assumes he's gone down to them because he was with in their line of sight".
So " with in ..sight" means grand pop could still see mom and dad in the open area above the creek. And this corresponds with NE early video of the campground with a description of what occurred. NE is on Camara walking with the bank and creek to his right, shows us the bank, ( NE states it would be difficult for the toddler to go down, but not impossible ) walks and points forward and states they ( mom and dad) go exploring over there. The Camara points to an open area. Now I do know mom and dad end up at the creek , but I believe it's at this time, this moment little Deorr walks away ,and grando pop THINKS it's in that direction he goes, but it turns out its not. And for 10- 15 min little Deorr beelines or gets distracted and goes in a different direction all together. Chases something, a rabbit, a butterfly, who knows sadly. IR wasn't there ( at the fire) so he could not say he saw him there, hence his weird statements. This is just my thoughts ( for now ) but I still do not know why there is no trace of him.

Haven't posted since thread 4 or so; I tried to keep posting the 1st you tube video Nate did where he shows where they walked. My biggest question since day 1 is what is the track record of the SAR dogs? I feel they messed up with tracking him.

 

[starfire]

Diesel fuel. Why the differentiation between plain old fuel and diesel fuel? Would diesel fuel be used for anything other than a vehicle's gas tank?

Some ATVs run on diesel. Deorr had an ATV during the search, but I don't know if he had it while camping.

 

[blefuscu]

Maybe they had a diesel generator?

 

[JeauWyte]

I don't think the diesel thing is a huge issue. His truck probably was a diesel or they could have brought a generator with them. We used to when I'd camp with my dad. Around here (southern Idaho) most people call diesel "diesel" and gasoline "gas". So I guess to me "diesel fuel" just means they stopped to fuel up the truck.

 

[4senthia]

Diesel fuel. Why the differentiation between plain old fuel and diesel fuel? Would diesel fuel be used for anything other than a vehicle's gas tank?

I don't wanna go there @all, but just general info: diesel fuel is still used in the process of cremation.
I said it.
Probably for a generator.
jmho

 

[The Analyst]

Not sure if this idea would work in practice or only just in theory,

To help with the search of the creek would it be possible to use sand bags to plug the mouth of the creek where the water runs in from the reservoir. Leave it plugged for maybe an hour to give searchers time to look though the creek again now that the water levels have dropped and the remaining water is clam. This might help reveal any hidden area's under rocks or logs. Once the sand bags are removed from the mouth of the river the large flow of water might also dislodge anything that may have been stuck in the creek. You would just need to set up a net downstream to catch any small items prior to removing the sandbags.

Anyway, not sure of the environmental impact of doing this, just thought it might make it easier to search the creek, and might reveal area's that wouldn't be visible when searching the creek while the water is still flowing.

 

[TxJan1971]

I'm sure LE knows if there are security cameras in Leadore or not. Our town population is a little less than 4,000 people. Three years ago we got security cameras put inside and outside our small store. The city police actually stopped and told us how pleased they were that we were doing that. They actually noticed them. They have needed to come into our store twice to view our cameras for other things not concerning our business.

This town is 100? Believe me, they know.

I also wonder why they are protecting GGP so much. He was the last person to see Deorr. Isn't that the norm to interview the last person seeing the missing person? He can't be that mentally off/unstable if he is able to do a polygraph.

One more thing...I swear I heard the Sherriff say in the uncut interview it was a 20 minute trip to the Stage shop. We thought it was 40 here. But when I listened to it again, I didn't hear that. Maybe I heard it on a different version? The edited version wouldn't have anything on it that the uncut version had. Or maybe I re-listened to the edited version. I'm confused where I heard that.

BBM
Nate said it was 20 minutes. IIRC, there was also a different article/video of Nate driving down the road showing the bumpy ride to the campsite (?) (have to go find that to refresh my memory), but nevertheless, here's the link/verbiage:

EDITED TRANSCRIPT - VIDEO PORTION
August 18, 2015

LEMHI SHERIFF OPENS UP ABOUT DEORR KUNZ CASE

http:// www. eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

Nate Eaton:
“Bowerman is opening up about the case that has so many unanswered questions. He says late on Thursday, July 9th, not Friday, Deorr, his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of grandpa named Isaac Renwand arrive at Timber Creek. The next morning Bowerman tells me Deorr goes with his parents to a store in Leadore, about 20 minutes from the camp site.”

“Was there any surveillance captured of this boy, surveillance video?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:28
“I don’t believe they have surveillance, but we have, uh…a receipt that we documented that they purchased certain items. They were on the receipt. The time was stamped on the receipt, and so, we believe, ya’ know, that’s where they went.”

 

[wondering25]

Diesel fuel might be used to power a generator that could run the battery that would run GGP's oxygen. I know less about this than i do about reading those wonderful maps someone provided. But it is just a thought. JMO

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

BBM
Nate said it was 20 minutes. IIRC, there was also a different article/video of Nate driving down the road showing the bumpy ride to the campsite (?) (have to go find that to refresh my memory), but nevertheless, here's the link/verbiage:

EDITED TRANSCRIPT - VIDEO PORTION
August 18, 2015

LEMHI SHERIFF OPENS UP ABOUT DEORR KUNZ CASE

http:// www. eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

Nate Eaton:
“Bowerman is opening up about the case that has so many unanswered questions. He says late on Thursday, July 9th, not Friday, Deorr, his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of grandpa named Isaac Renwand arrive at Timber Creek. The next morning Bowerman tells me Deorr goes with his parents to a store in Leadore, about 20 minutes from the camp site.”

“Was there any surveillance captured of this boy, surveillance video?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:28
“I don’t believe they have surveillance, but we have, uh…a receipt that we documented that they purchased certain items. They were on the receipt. The time was stamped on the receipt, and so, we believe, ya’ know, that’s where they went.”

Who is "they" when the sheriff says that's where they went in reference to the store. The parents? The parents and little Deorr? Or the entire crew?

Never mind...I see where Bowerman said little Deorr went.

 

[ninij9]

Diesel fuel. Why the differentiation between plain old fuel and diesel fuel? Would diesel fuel be used for anything other than a vehicle's gas tank?

Some pickup trucks use diesel fuel if they are heavy duty. Also depending on the camper, my friends folks had a Winnebago that used diesel and got like 4 miles to the gallon[emoji15]

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[AnnaGrace]

If there is truly nothing, why did they bring in the "big guns" (FBI)? Is that typical in cases where LE thinks a child just walked off and succumbed to the elements? IMO, not.

I agree. When it was placed in the hands of FBI, that is one of the reasons I really suspected abduction. If they thought he just got lost, I don't think they would be involved. It seems like they suspect abduction or a crime of some sort. The sheriff insists abduction is at the bottom of the list, yet he called it a crime scene in the interview yesterday. I would surely like his opinion of what happened to little DeOrr! He didn't just vanish or disappear! MO, he was either abducted or his little body is still in the campground area and has been missed in the searches. Early on, the sheriff didn't think he was carried away by an animal...so what does that leave?