GUILTY ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell *Arrests* #77

[Ruminations]

Chad can't fire him.

The judge always has to approve that request from the defendant. The defendant would have to file a specific motion for this....Motion for new counsel.

He can't, because the judge just ruled against JP's motion to be dismissed from the case.

If Chad filed a motion for new counsel the motion would be denied.

2 Cents

got you.

Chad could make that motion...but I agree that Boyce telegraphed a no by pointing out that there is no evidence that Prior has been ineffective.

also, priors motion said on Chad's behalf that the client thought it unfair that prior goes unpaid. not that Chad was unhappy with the representation. who gets worried about fair compensation for someone who is doing a bad job, and who already took your house? that adds evidence of priors effectiveness- so - on what grounds could Chad fire him?

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

got you.

Chad could make that motion...but I agree that Boyce telegraphed a no by pointing out that there is no evidence that Prior has been ineffective.

also, priors motion said on Chad's behalf that the client thought it unfair that prior goes unpaid. not that Chad was unhappy with the representation. who gets worried about fair compensation for someone who is doing a bad job, and who already took your house? that adds evidence of priors effectiveness- so - on what grounds could Chad fire him?

MOO

I think the OP was speculating on what would happen if Chad tried to fire him.

In Idaho, attorneys of indigent defendants can and do get paid if they bother to fill out the paperwork. I suspect Chad's attorney doesn't think the "going rate" is compensation enough. Also, I find it hard to believe that no attorney in the country wants a paying job to help JP defend Chad.

2 Cents

Section 19-862A – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

COMPLIANCE — INDIGENT DEFENSE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE. [EFFECTIVE UNTIL JULY 1, 2024] (1) All counties, indigent defense providers and defending attorneys shall cooperate and participate with the commission in the review of their indigent defense services.

 

[SteveS]

In Idaho, attorneys of indigent defendants can and do get paid if they bother to fill out the paperwork. I suspect Chad's attorney doesn't think the "going rate" is compensation enough. Also, I find it hard to believe that no attorney in the country wants a paying job to help JP defend Chad.

Respectfully, that's not quite right.

Yes the state of ID can pay for attorney for the indigent, but it takes more than "I don't have money and am indigent." There are conditions. One strict qualifier is that when such a defendant needs an attorney and can't pay for him, the STATE will be who selects the attorney, not the defendant, and it is further required that the attorney be considered qualified for the job. Prior - because he has not been "DP qualified" - would not be eligible to be selected for the CD case.

IOW there is no form Prior could file to get the state to pay him, even though he is defending an indigent person.

If Prior was no longer CD's attorney (as in, he withdrew), then CD being indigent and unable to hire one could petition the state who would then assign him one. Or two, in this case. But CD has already chosen Prior and wants him to continue, and Prior is willing to do so regardless of the financial situation, so that ends that. But while it seem like it would be fair if the state just paid Prior - since they would otherwise pay someone else - it doesn't work that way.

IIUC from the hearing, the court has previously set aside funds and given permission for Prior to retain a 2nd attorney to help, at state expense. It hasn't happened, but the claim in the hearing was that they tried. However, "the state needs to find, assign, and pay a 2nd attorney to help me, because we are unable to do so, and otherwise cannot mount an adequate defense" was not the motion that was filed. And if Prior/CD isn't making such a demand, that's on them imo.

 

[mickey2942]

This case isn't worth it. CD is on his "denial" yellow brick road, probably praying for more catastrophes. Working on using his magical powers to have a world of devastation where he will be king.

I don't think Prior knew what mess he stepped into here, in the beginning, he probably thought, "take the house, blame the dead brother, done".

 

[Teche]

More MM's opinions: It's an unfair judgement by the court which could contribute to overturning a conviction.

MM often whines about the unfairness of the system and insinuates corruption is at play in East Idaho.

ETA: There are more of his recent tweets about Lori's case.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746704028128456838

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748518526195847507

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748518247291392388

I thought that Mark Means no longer worked as an attorney.

 

[Cool Cats]

Respectfully, that's not quite right.

Yes the state of ID can pay for attorney for the indigent, but it takes more than "I don't have money and am indigent." There are conditions. One strict qualifier is that when such a defendant needs an attorney and can't pay for him, the STATE will be who selects the attorney, not the defendant, and it is further required that the attorney be considered qualified for the job. Prior - because he has not been "DP qualified" - would not be eligible to be selected for the CD case.

IOW there is no form Prior could file to get the state to pay him, even though he is defending an indigent person.

If Prior was no longer CD's attorney (as in, he withdrew), then CD being indigent and unable to hire one could petition the state who would then assign him one. Or two, in this case. But CD has already chosen Prior and wants him to continue, and Prior is willing to do so regardless of the financial situation, so that ends that. But while it seem like it would be fair if the state just paid Prior - since they would otherwise pay someone else - it doesn't work that way.

IIUC from the hearing, the court has previously set aside funds and given permission for Prior to retain a 2nd attorney to help, at state expense. It hasn't happened, but the claim in the hearing was that they tried. However, "the state needs to find, assign, and pay a 2nd attorney to help me, because we are unable to do so, and otherwise cannot mount an adequate defense" was not the motion that was filed. And if Prior/CD isn't making such a demand, that's on them imo.

Well, according to what you have found out, Prior chooses to not get death qualified which means the State of Idaho could not legally choose him to be Chad's attorney.

3 and 1/2 years I think?

Surely enough time to use Chad's real estate to pay to get a death certified certificate so as to get paid for all that monumental amount of work it takes to defend a death eligible client.

Something is fishy in my opinion. And it isn't in the lake.

2 Cents.

 

[sassyblue]

Prior was fishing alright but the pros and judge took away his pole and his bait.

 

[indicolite22]

I thought that Mark Means no longer worked as an attorney.

According to the Idaho attorney roster, his license was cancelled in March 2023:

Attorney Roster Search

To promote high standards of professional conduct and to aid in the advancement of the administration of justice.

isb.idaho.gov

 

[Ruminations]

More MM's opinions: It's an unfair judgement by the court which could contribute to overturning a conviction.

MM often whines about the unfairness of the system and insinuates corruption is at play in East Idaho.

ETA: There are more of his recent tweets about Lori's case.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746704028128456838

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748518526195847507

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748518247291392388

Wow.

It is not fair at all to assume East Idaho has only one kind of person and they are all bad.

But if it were true that the only kind of people in East Idaho were one kind of bad, it would be his kind of bad. The kind who were related to the defendants in past lives. The "like minded" doomsday believers.

He has a lot of nerve casting aspersions.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

Wow.

It is not fair at all to assume East Idaho has only one kind of person and they are all bad.

But if it were true that the only kind of people in East Idaho were one kind of bad, it would be his kind of bad. The kind who were related to the defendants in past lives. The "like minded" doomsday believers.

He has a lot of nerve casting aspersions.

MOO

Judging by MM's own tweets, he might be ex-LDS, so I'm not sure if he buys any of C&L's stuff. He seems like a crusader type who is blaming LDS teachings for Lori's application of them.

List of his gripes: The prosecution is playing dirty tricks, the court favors prosecution, Lori's defense was in cahoots with the prosecution, LDS teachings are responsible for the making of C&L and the Church is meddling with the case.

He has two targets: the prosecution and the Church. Maybe this would be part of his defense strategy if he could stay on Lori's case.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746703179281019182

 

[Nikynoo]

I think the OP was speculating on what would happen if Chad tried to fire him.

In Idaho, attorneys of indigent defendants can and do get paid if they bother to fill out the paperwork. I suspect Chad's attorney doesn't think the "going rate" is compensation enough. Also, I find it hard to believe that no attorney in the country wants a paying job to help JP defend Chad.

2 Cents

Section 19-862A – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

COMPLIANCE — INDIGENT DEFENSE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE. [EFFECTIVE UNTIL JULY 1, 2024] (1) All counties, indigent defense providers and defending attorneys shall cooperate and participate with the commission in the review of their indigent defense services.

Or JP hasn’t applied because he doesn’t want his worked being reviewed? IMO JP has done the bare minimum.

 

[Ruminations]

Judging by MM's own tweets, he might be ex-LDS, so I'm not sure if he buys any of C&L's stuff. He seems like a crusader type who is blaming LDS teachings for Lori's application of them.

List of his gripes: The prosecution is playing dirty tricks, the court favors prosecution, Lori's defense was in cahoots with the prosecution, LDS teachings are responsible for the making of C&L and the Church is meddling with the case.

He has two targets: the prosecution and the Church. Maybe this would be part of his defense strategy if he could stay on Lori's case.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746703179281019182

There are hints the Prior wanted to take on the church, too, and blame them for the radicalization.

There are two ways to be disenchanted with a religion that has radicalized off shoot(s).

1) Be dissatisfied that the church seems to tolerate these off-shoot(s).

2) Be dissatisfied that the church seems to marginalize these off shoot(s).

If MM is dissatisfied, how so? I haven't been following him. So it's a literal question, not rhetorical. I am very curious, and did see hints that he was quite "like-minded" as they say. But I am also rather repulsed by him. So I am not willing to delve into if he feels the church is too tolerant of groups like ones he seemed to feel favorable towards, or if he feels they don't embrace them enough.

MOO

edited: corrected two/too/to spelling mistake.

 

[indicolite22]

There are hints the Prior wanted to take on the church, too, and blame them for the radicalization.

There are too ways to be disenchanted with a religion that has radicalized off shoot(s).

1) Be dissatisfied that the church seems to tolerate these off-shoot(s).

2) Be dissatisfied that the church seems to marginalize these off shoot(s).

If MM is dissatisfied, how so? I haven't been following him. So it's a literal question, not rhetorical. I am very curious, and did see hints that he was quite "like-minded" as they say. But I am also rather repulsed by him. So I am not willing to delve into if he feels the church is too tolerant of groups like ones he seemed try o feel favorable towards, or if he feels they don't embrace them enough.

MOO

IMO he is suggesting that part of the mainstream church's doctrine is "twisted" and that Lori can't be blamed for taking it as an excuse to murder people she didn't like. He sees a conspiracy in which the Church is using its influence within the system, trying to bury "the truth" that they allowed it to happen.

 

[aafromaa]

I thought that Mark Means no longer worked as an attorney.

Didn’t he move out of state?

 

[Ruminations]

Or JP hasn’t applied because he doesn’t want his worked being reviewed? IMO JP has done the bare minimum.

Maybe Chad's children would have been financially better off if Chad didn't mount a defense and left the murder house (already devalued, of course) to the kids and going a "no contest" route. (I don't know the legal options in Idaho. No contest might not be an option. But there must have been some cheaper way to clam up and let the chips fall less expensively.) It's on brand that Chad was about himself, not what he leaves his undoubtedly traumatized children.

But I do think, at the cost of not only Chad's (modest) life savings, but at the cost of his children's protectable wealth building boost: the home. (I don't know Idaho specific laws, but a residence is hard to take from a person for a debt unless the residence is collateral in general.)...I do think at that high cost. JP has already made Chad's execution rather unlikely. If he gets Idaho to agree Chad does not have anti-death representation and takes it off the table, that's a home run.

It's not over yet, but the irony is a non-death penalty qualified attorney is making excellent progress in removing the possibility of DP. He damaged the DP case a great deal, even if ultimately the State retains a DP case. He is strengthening his position in the DP phase, if there is one.

So, I can't agree that he has done the minimum. It pains me to offer any hat tip to the man, but IMO, his defense has been very effective.

That said, unlike you, IANAL. So I very well may change my viewpoint with more information.

(Come to think of it, even if I were a lawyer more info could change my mind!)

MOO

 

[Teche]

According to the Idaho attorney roster, his license was cancelled in March 2023:

Attorney Roster Search

To promote high standards of professional conduct and to aid in the advancement of the administration of justice.

isb.idaho.gov

I thought so. His current Twitter still has Mean’s Law office.

 

[Cool Cats]

Or JP hasn’t applied because he doesn’t want his worked being reviewed? IMO JP has done the bare minimum.

If he did the bare minimum it won't look good on appeal.

 

[Nikynoo]

If he did the bare minimum it won't look good on appeal.

I guess I just don’t like JPs bluster. I don’t think Chud will get the DP, but he will stay in prison for the rest of his life. As for appeals, that seems to be a money making exercise for lawyers. That man and his wife will never have freedom again. And I’m ok with that.

 

[indicolite22]

One of yt lawyers recently stated that with JP's representation, Chad will never be able to successfully claim ineffective assistance of counsel. In their opinion two new "random" DP certified attorneys would not do a better job.

 

[Ruminations]

I guess I just don’t like JPs bluster. I don’t think Chud will get the DP, but he will stay in prison for the rest of his life. As for appeals, that seems to be a money making exercise for lawyers. That man and his wife will never have freedom again. And I’m ok with that.

JP is not - nice.

It pained me to acknowledge his legal success.

MOO