ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #67

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I don't get it. You seem to desperately want her to be guilty of something. I say, if she broke the law, charge her, but I'm not blaming her for not being clairvoyant or for not immediately doubting the two people she believed had special powers. Cult members are like that. On the subject of Tammy's death, it had been predicted for a long time and MG knew it. It was one of Chad's prophecies. Nowhere was it indicated that she would be murdered. So when Tammy died, I doubt MG questioned whether Tylee was still alive. Nobody expects their friend to kill her own children. (All IMO)


I don't desperately want her to be guilty of anything criminal. I don't desperately want her to be innocent. I want the truth.

I know she perjured regarding sleeping arrangements. I think it is possible she is guilty of something else. I think it is evident she has been victimized. I think it is evident she is deluded and unrealistic about herself and the circumstances she was and to an extent still is in. I think it is evident she is lying- at times deliberately. It is not not simply being untruthful because of delusions.

I want the same thing you do. The truth. I respect your theories, Indicolite. There are things neither of us know about Melanie, and we hopefully will learn it someday. More importantly- hopefully the victims closer to this case than I am will learn enough to feel peace, justice and safety.

I have a number of strong feelings about Melanie Gibb- but none of them are wishing she is guilty or innocent. I wish she didn't do so much dirty to others, especially Tylee and Charles. I wish so much dirty was not done to her by Lori and Chad. I want to smack her upside her smug head when she babbles on about how enlightened she now is to dark influences. I want to rescue her when she shows how vulnerable and needy she was- and hurt by being "thrown under the bus."

The worst case scenario I can see for her being "guilty" is she made a conscious decision not to report knowledge or strong belief that Tylee was dead. I don't wish it- I think it's possible. Actually, I think it is probable unless she and LE made an agreement she not talk about sharing what she knew/believed about Tylee while she went on her media tours. It could be that LE wanted to leave space for other stories.

If I am right that Melanie knew/strongly suspected foul play with Tylee earlier than she says publically, I still have no idea how much legal trouble that would be. In a better world, she has discussed all of this with her own lawyer and sincerely helped the investigation while protecting herself legally if indeed she is in any legal trouble.

What I do wish is that she had the ability to be truthful with herself and the world. It would indicate better recovery from whatever was done to her. And, it would make her a better witness so that we could move forward from these awful crimes.

In short, I want her to be a credible witness for the prosecution.

MOO
 
I don't desperately want her to be guilty of anything criminal. I don't desperately want her to be innocent. I want the truth.

I know she perjured regarding sleeping arrangements. I think it is possible she is guilty of something else. I think it is evident she has been victimized. I think it is evident she is deluded and unrealistic about herself and the circumstances she was and to an extent still is in. I think it is evident she is lying- at times deliberately. It is not not simply being untruthful because of delusions.

I want the same thing you do. The truth. I respect your theories, Indicolite. There are things neither of us know about Melanie, and we hopefully will learn it someday. More importantly- hopefully the victims closer to this case than I am will learn enough to feel peace, justice and safety.

I have a number of strong feelings about Melanie Gibb- but none of them are wishing she is guilty or innocent. I wish she didn't do so much dirty to others, especially Tylee and Charles. I wish so much dirty was not done to her by Lori and Chad. I want to smack her upside her smug head when she babbles on about how enlightened she now is to dark influences. I want to rescue her when she shows how vulnerable and needy she was- and hurt by being "thrown under the bus."

The worst case scenario I can see for her being "guilty" is she made a conscious decision not to report knowledge or strong belief that Tylee was dead. I don't wish it- I think it's possible. Actually, I think it is probable unless she and LE made an agreement she not talk about sharing what she knew/believed about Tylee while she went on her media tours. It could be that LE wanted to leave space for other stories.

If I am right that Melanie knew/strongly suspected foul play with Tylee earlier than she says publically, I still have no idea how much legal trouble that would be. In a better world, she has discussed all of this with her own lawyer and sincerely helped the investigation while protecting herself legally if indeed she is in any legal trouble.

What I do wish is that she had the ability to be truthful with herself and the world. It would indicate better recovery from whatever was done to her. And, it would make her a better witness so that we could move forward from these awful crimes.

In short, I want her to be a credible witness for the prosecution.

MOO
I simply don't understand (some) people's obsession with MG. She is a witness in this case, not a defendant. She used to be close to Lori, but obviously not close enough to be told the truth about the murders. We have no proof of what she privately suspected and when, just speculation. IMO that can't be turned into a criminal charge. Her past beliefs could explain her actions; what she believes now is irrelevant. If she wasn't part of the conspiracy to murder, I'm not interested in her. I don't care about her self-image. I hope she can provide useful information for the prosecution that can be corroborated. If not, her testimony won't be used.
 

The make believe goddess and her make believe prophet might be in a world of hurt in the future if they get the death penalty.
 
Thursday, February 23rd:
*Pretrial Motions Hearing (@ 9am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) & Tamara “Tammy” Michelle Douglas Daybell (49) (died on Oct. 19, 2019 at her residence in Salem, ID; dob 5/4/70). – for *Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) arrested (6/9/20) & indicted (5/25/21) & charged (5/26/21) & arraigned (6/9/21) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4 (for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy, 49, died 10/19/19): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): 1st degree murder. Count 8 & 9: Insurance Fraud (Two counts of insurance fraud related to 2 different life insurance policies he had on Tammy). Plead not guilty. No bond. DA will seek DP. Fremont County
Trial set to begin on 4/3/23 thru 6/9/23 @ 9am. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last 10 weeks)
Previous charges, Grand jury indictment & Court info from 6/10/20 thru 2/10/23 reference post #398 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-67.655419/page-20

2/13/23: Response to request for Discovery-11th Supplement. Order: Modifying Court's scheduling Order filed 12/16/22. Motions hearing on 2/16/23 @ 9:30am.
2/16/23 Update: Judge Boyce grants Prior's motion to extend deadline to disclose discovery until 3/13/23; original date was 2/27/23. No other info yet on motions hearing. Next pretrial motions hearing on 2/23/23 @ 9am.
2/18/23 Update: Daybell's defense & State filed motions on 2/14/23. State’s 11th Supplemental Discovery Disclosure; Judge’s Order Modifying Court Order; Prior’s 2nd Renewed Motion to Sever-denied; State’s Motion to Seal (to seal its amended motion for introduction of evidence); Judge’s Order to Seal Objection to Motion; Judge’s Order to Seal State’s Motion-granted; State’s Response to Defendant’s 2nd Motion to Compel; State’s 12th Supplemental Discovery Disclosure; State’s Objection & Brief in Support of State's Objection to Defendant's Motion to Dismiss & Order (Any Court reporter officially assigned to this case is authorized to access the Grand Jury transcripts).

ALSO:
*Pretrial Motions Hearing (@ 9am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – for *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): Chad only: 1st Degree murder. Count 7: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22.
Madison County
Trial set to begin on 4/3/23 thru 6/9/23 @ 9am. Trial will be held in Ada County.

Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 2/13/23 reference post #398 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-67.655419/page-20

2/13/23: State's 11th Supplemental discovery disclosure. Memorandum Decision & Order: on defendant's motion to dismiss for lack of speedy trial by Judge Steven W. Boyce. Judge Boyce denies Vallow’s motion to dismiss murder case. He cites 11/28/22 as real deadline for when to meet speedy trial obligations, adding time for last hold on case. Boyce says “good cause” for delay is justified with moving trial to Ada Co., voluminous discovery, etc. Order: Modifying Court's scheduling order filed 12/16/22 is modified. The modified deadline to disclose expert witness reports shall be extended from 2/27/23 to new deadline of 3/13/23. Order on defendant's Motion for individual voir dire-granted. Order for defendant's Motion for pre-selection jury instructions-granted. 2/14/23: State's Motion to Seal (to seal its amended motion for introduction of evidence). 2/16/23: State's 12th Supplemental Discovery Disclosure. Motions hearing on 2/16/23 @ 9:30am.
2/16/23 Update: No info on motions hearing. Next pretrial motions hearing on 2/23/23 @ 9am.
*AZ – Indicted (6/24/21) & served (6/29/21) with conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder in the death of former husband Charles Vallow (62).
Reference post #334: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-67.655419/page-17
 
NATE EATON
https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Inside the courtroom for Daybell pre-trial conference this morning. Conjoined trial for Chad and Lori is a little over 5 weeks away.

1 Chad Daybell's attorney will argue their cases should be severed and each defendant should have their own trial. #daybell

"We're not going to be prepared for trial on April 3," John Prior, Chad's attorney, tells Judge Boyce.

But Jim Archibald, Lori's attorney, says "We are ready to proceed, your honor....Our witness and exhibit list will be fine-tuned and will be filed with the court 14 days before trial," Jim Archibald, Lori's attorney, says.

2 State arguing against mental health being used as a defense in Lori's case.

Blake: "The state absolutely intends to talk about issues regarding the defendant's beliefs. We are concerned the defense may then use that to open the door to argue mental health as a defense"

3 Defense responds

Jim Archibald, Lori's attorney, objects to the motion. "Our mental health experts still have questions about her competency. We do respect the court's opinion that she is competent for trial even though there are differing opinions on that matter."

Archibald: "All the mental health experts that have evaluated her say she does have a mental illness. There's no question."

Archibald says Lori Vallow Daybell believes she will not be convicted.

Archibald says "our witnesses will be 'very few' during the guilt phase " of the trial. The trial has 2 phases - the guilt phase and then the penalty phase (if defendants are found guilty).

Archibald says they have no plans to make mental health an issue during the guilt phase of the trial...and because of that, he does not believe the state should be able to use a mental health expert who is currently on the witness list.

Judge Boyce to issue written ruling on the mental health motion concerning Lori's case.

4 Prior now arguing motion about lacking access to evidence in timely manner (which ultimately relates to the issues of date of trial, and of severing cases) with state's response following

Prior: "The trial is going to start in 21 business days. To date, unless I'm mistaken, there is DNA evidence that is still outstanding that I don't have in my possession."

Prior: "It's not my problem about the DNA evidence and what's going on. This is all on the state. They have an obligation to receive and process DNA evidence."

Prior: "You're going to hurry me? You're going to rush me for having to evaluate this in 21 business days because the state can't get their act together? They can't give me sufficient amount of time to do what I need to do in this case to evaluate this case?"

Prior says he received evidence on Monday - Presidents' Day. He had to meet the Fed Ex delivery driver at his office and then overnight the evidence to his expert. He argues this is not giving him enough time to prepare for trial.

Prior says evidence in the case includes hair samples from each of the defendants - Chad and Lori

Prior: "In the month of February, just in the month of February, there have been four "supplemental evidence" given to him...including tips that were involved in this case from 2019

Prior: "If they inadvertently missed something and didn't provide it in a timely fashion, that's fine. But that doesn't mean I should have to rush and prepare for trial at the last minute because the state can't get their act together."

Prior says 32 electronic devices and 26 journals were seized from Chad Daybell's house. This will be evidence in the case. Prior says there is 12 terabytes of data that has been submitted as evidence. "That's enough to fill a cargo van."

Prior says even if state gave him all outstanding evidence by next week, "I'm not going to be able to get through it all. There's no way. Even with the additional support staff I have, there is no way I'm going to be able to get through the evidence."

Prior: "They're providing little bits & pieces (of evidence) & saying 'Catch me if you can. Provide it to me if you can.' How do I know? Half a million GPS points that were never provided to me originally. 1,188 tips that were not given to me until the last month."

Prior - "Either they're trying to sandbag me or there's a lot of incompetence and nobody's watching or directing the ship. Judge - for you to punish me and have me go through all this evidence at the last minute because they can't get their act together - it's not my fault." Prior saying Lori's team does not have all the evidence either and says "Ms. Vallow"...then stops and says "Vallow-Daybell, excuse me ma'am. " Lori nods her head.

Prior: "This delay is not on me in any way. This delay can not be on me in any way. This is a complete breakdown on the prosecutor's office. Judge - I'm asking you to dismiss this indictment." Prior: "In the alternative, I'm asking the court to consider and reconsider the severance motion because I cannot be ready."

5 Fremont Co. Dep. Prosecuting Attorney Tawnya Rawlings responding to Prior's argument on behalf of the state. "We recognize that having collected these additional hairs at a later date is problematic so the state, out of concern for that, did make significant efforts to find a smaller lab to test the hair." Rawlings says state lab could not test the small portions of hair for specific DNA evidence in a quick manner so a private lab was found in California for testing. Prior was notified of this, according to Rawlings.

Rawlings says state experts report on the lab testing of the hair TODAY. "We don't have the results now. We don't know whether they were able to obtain anything, we just know they have the ability to test the hair in a more extensive manner than the state lab."

Rawlings: "I fully empathize with defense counsel as far as going through the vast amount of evidence in this case. I recognize there is a vast amount of evidence. The state has been going through discovery again since November to make sure everything has been turned over." Rawlings says the devices seized from Chad Daybell's home in Jan. 2020 are not relevant to the state's case. As for the journals, they were disclosed in the previous Chad Daybell case (before the indictment) so "the defense has been aware of those for some time."

Rawlings: "There is a voluminous amount of material in this case and much of this material has been available for inspection and review for two years."

State argues they have turned over all evidence in a timely manner and have communicated with defense attorneys when there have been delays. Says indictment against Chad Daybell should not be dismissed.

Boyce makes a point to tell Prior that with electronic evidence, the prosecutor keeps possession of devices so things aren't just "floating out there." He tells Prior he's welcome to go review the evidence at any time at the prosecutor's office.

Prior: "I provided the prosecuting attorney staff with a 16 TB hard drive today. I would like the prosecuting attorney to download the entire case on that 16TB hard drive."

6 Madison County Prosecuting Attorney Rob Wood now addressing the court. "Mr. Prior has certainly cast his fair share of dispersions on the state and law enforcement today."

Wood: "I want to point out, on the record, that the defense was made aware of the electronic devices (seized from Daybell's house) on Jan. 14, 2021 - more than 4 months before this case was even filed. Included with that was a document with a list of the journals."

Prior says Chad Daybell has "repeatedly expressed his pleasure with the job I am doing" as Chad nods his head yes.

7 Fremont Co. Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake now addressing Prior's motion to sever the cases. "it boils down to the discovery issues. Mr. Prior is now saying there's too much discovery for him to get through before trial."

Blake: "The defense, at any point, could have called the state lab. There was no restriction on the defense contacting the state lab. There was no restriction on the defense reviewing what's at the state lab. They could have done this any time in the past 2 years. They did not."

Blake: "He (Prior) absolutely had the ability to come and look at (the evidence). We've repeatedly said for years now. He's known about the existence of the journals, the existence of the devices and what we pulled off them. For whatever strategic reasons, he choose not to."

(Prior referenced 12 TB of data that the state recently turned over to him.) Blake says anything the state plans to use from the 12 TB of information was turned over to Prior previously.

Blake says prosecutors have been going through everything ahead of trial to make sure it's all been turned over. "We recognize the state has discovered things that ended up not being disclosed. We promptly disclosed and turned them over."

Blake says there have been "repeated attempts" by Prior during this hearing "to exaggerate the amount of discovery" and the lack of time in which is was disclosed.

Blake: "The state has made accommodations any time defense has asked to review discovery. We have absolutely made it available."

Blake "The defendant has waited until the eve of trial to raise this issue. We didn't see motions to compel until recently. The defendant did not request to come and look at the 12 TB of information he's known about for two years."


EATON REPORTS CONTINUE (at Twitter) as the hearing is still ongoing. @NateNewsNow
 
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Hearing is adjourned. Closed hearing will now be held with the judge. ... Eaton

End result of today's hearings, so far:
a - Judge Boyce to issue written ruling on the mental health motion concerning Lori's case.
b - Boyce also says he will issue written orders on Chad's motions to compel more/better discovery, which flows into a motion to delay trial to examine the evidence completely, which then flows into a motion for the trials to be severed (based on the fact of Chad legally pushing for his trial to be later, whereas Lori is legally forcing her trial to be sooner and with no more delay).

AS I SEE THINGS COMMENT -- The desire by the defendants to sever the trials is good strategy, because if they are tried separately, each in their trial can then accuse the other of being the one who did the murder(s). Whereas, if tried together, the state can simply try to prove the two of them did it, without having to distinguish who did what, exactly. And trying to force a conflict between "trial has to be now, and can't legally wait" (for one) and "trial has to be later, and can't legally be done now" (for the other) seems like a good backdoor methodology to accomplish the goal.

AT this point, it all hinges on Chad convincing the judge he needs more time (a delay that can't be applied to Lori's case). I don't think he will win another delay, based on what we were hearing of the arguments, but we will see.
 
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Prior - Prior saying Lori's team does not have all the evidence either and says "Ms. Vallow"...then stops and says "Vallow-Daybell, excuse me ma'am. " Lori nods her head.

SBM- Interesting JP did this. Pretty sure he's been distancing CD from LV long ago and stopped calling her Lori Vallow-Daybell or Lori Daybell long ago, and has only been referring to her as Ms. Vallow. Wonder the reasoning for the reversal?
 
SBM- Interesting JP did this. Pretty sure he's been distancing CD from LV long ago and stopped calling her Lori Vallow-Daybell or Lori Daybell long ago, and has only been referring to her as Ms. Vallow. Wonder the reasoning for the reversal?


MY ASSUMPTION is that this could be slick legal strategy stuff, and not accidental at all. If they can sever the trial (using the disparity in the defendants' scheduling demands based on individual legal rights), then Chad's defense would be to throw Lori under the bus as the one who perpetrated all the murders (in conjuction with her brother, acting as her hit man).
 
MY ASSUMPTION is that this could be slick legal strategy stuff, and not accidental at all. If they can sever the trial (using the disparity in the defendants' scheduling demands based on individual legal rights), then Chad's defense would be to throw Lori under the bus as the one who perpetrated all the murders (in conjuction with her brother, acting as her hit man).

There is no doubt it was wasn't accidental as he's corrected himself numerous times in the past when he's called her Ms. Daybell and rephrased it to Ms. Vallow.

Also, no doubt there is an angle he's playing.

The timing is also interesting. Could it have something to do with the mediation hearings that started last week? I wonder if CD/JP are concerned that LV is considering a deal? Or if they can get a severance, keeping LV close/happy vs. shunning her would help CD. Either way, it appears to be a reversal of strategy.
 
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I simply don't understand (some) people's obsession with MG. She is a witness in this case, not a defendant. She used to be close to Lori, but obviously not close enough to be told the truth about the murders. We have no proof of what she privately suspected and when, just speculation. IMO that can't be turned into a criminal charge. Her past beliefs could explain her actions; what she believes now is irrelevant. If she wasn't part of the conspiracy to murder, I'm not interested in her. I don't care about her self-image. I hope she can provide useful information for the prosecution that can be corroborated. If not, her testimony won't be used.


I am very interested- possibly even obsessed with Gibb.

I think it is because she is so many things- many of them unlikable and many of them vulnerable, which has been exploited with malice and leaves me feeling very much like she is a victim too.

She certainly does have cult brain.

Yet- she says things that are astonishing at times- showing she has some very strange and sick priorities. Like- being more emotional and worried that Rowe would "look bad" if the kids turned up dead for broadcasting her visions of them on a beach! Jay-sus who is worried about looks when kids turning up dead is highly probable???

I think you and I agree- we want her to be a good witness.

I also happen to agree with you in that I am not in the "why isn't MG in jail, too?" club. But Gibb can irk me, and I do identify with feeling angry at her and disappointed in her actions and inactions. The reason why I am not in the lock her up team is because I think she is doing the best she can- and probably didn't actually conspire to murder, as far as I know.

MOO
 
@montegrl - any new court dates yet for either one?

TIA!
 Girl Waving Hello Smiley
 
Personally, I don't think JB is willing to reconsider his rulings.
 
The prosecution turned their mikes off. You can't hear them on the audio files, per Justin Lum.


Yeah, this will help the public trust the judicial system more.
 
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