ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #67

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SteveS said:
"[Prior] always wanted to move forward faster."

I don't think that's true at all. Chad was first charged with the 3 murders (indicted) May 24, 2021. By early June Lori was deemed incompetent. In early August the state decided to seek the DP, and Chad/Prior signed a waiver to speedy trial in Aug 2021. That was in the context of an anticipated delay for a trial into 2022. I haven't found anything different. It looks to me CD has consistently been amenable to whatever takes longer, as most sane defendants do when facing the DP.

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I'll retract my "always" statement.

Let's put it this way. He's been the better lawyer. He's done what he should to benefit his client and that included trying to get the case moving while LV was declared incompetent.

Dec. 2nd, 2021 he wants to go to trial and is ready for Oct. 2022
LV situation changes and he now needs a trial in 2084 for countless reasons.

He's no fool. JB too took long to try to control this trial and the state has simply been terrible.
 
Caylee Advocate said:
Yep, the "Mean's tracker" and 'The Insider". Hopefully they return when trials begin, or sooner.
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I'm a little surprised we haven't seen SleuthD-o-doubleg but I think Redvines might have dipped out not too far after some of her stuff with Trish. It's been a bit so I could be wrong. Who knows what issues that could have brought so I guess we'll see? Hope they're both are doing well.
 
pizzaman12 said:
I'm a little surprised we haven't seen SleuthD-o-doubleg but I think Redvines might have dipped out not too far after some of her stuff with Trish. It's been a bit so I could be wrong. Who knows what issues that could have brought so I guess we'll see? Hope they're both are doing well.
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Have you tried messaging them? It is odd that SleuthD hasn't been on. Like you, I too hope they are well.
 
Meh

They can wriggle around but i don't see Dear Chad and Dear Lori getting away with this.

Whoops where's my kid is the dumbest killer strategy but you can't say it happened twice??? Oh both my kids went missing many days apart but i wasn't involved in their murders it was the conveniently dead guy .... Nah. Dear Lori is going down for Murder.

And as for Dear Chad, the whole whoops my wife stopped being alive combined with whoops why are my new wife's kids buried in my yard is just too silly.
 
pizzaman12 said:
Yikes...Listening to the state's argument about all the discovery issues, including missed deadlines is frustrating.

JA is going to file a motion to exclude all the evidence they gave him TWO days ago.
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That suggests that the evidence inculpates, doesn't it?

I wonder what it is.

Hints:

Lori's attorneys want it excluded all together, having seen it.
Chad's attorney wants to have his experts analyze it, but it seems like severing trials was the goal.
The prosecution was scheduling trials before it even came to light, so it seems rather unimportant to them.

In addition, it is becoming clearer that Lori's attorneys are not in agreement with her decision to assert her right to a speedy trial. That suggests that the rush causes more harm than the new evidence.

(Tangental thought to the above: Lori's attorneys are hinting that they dispute her competence but respect the court's determination of competence. They are also saying that Lori is making decisions against their advice. In my opinion, they are implying that Lori knows their role, and is considering, then rejecting, their advice. If that is what's going on, she is competent IMO; poor judgement is not the same as incompetence. If the attorneys are asserting Lori is not competent, they should have said she doesn't comprehend that their role, not that they respect her decision against their advice.)

I guess it's not just the evidence I wonder about.

I wonder if the trial will happen in April.

I think the prosecution is ready.

Chad is delaying and severing with the help of his attorney. The recent changes favor Chad a lot.

If Lori's judgement improves, she might waive her right to a speedy trial after all to join the trial again.

If she goes to trial first I wonder if she will turn on Chad. She should. (I think she is guilty but I also agree Chad manipulated her; maybe she could convince someone more charitable that it's all Chad's fault.) But she hasn't telegraphed a strategy like Chad has- by having kids claim he was framed and having his attorney say he has a diametrically opposed defense strategy. If she says Jesus is cool with my actions but I understand the State of Idaho is not, she is basically confessing. So what is her strategy?

If she prefers trial with Chad (and she reportedly does) what does that say about what her strategy is? The same confession above, but with Chad there to agree this was for Jesus? Or the I was manipulated by Chad defense but with him there to---what?---confirm he did manipulate her?

Wouldn't that be easier to pull off without him around to deny it or even around to sit at a table making indignant faces, modeled by his lawyer?

I'm not getting Lori's strategy at all. I do think she is competent because she is reportedly considering and rejecting advice, which her lawyers "respect." They say there are other opinions about her competence, but they are not expressing with exasperation that she is not really making decisions at all.

But, competent as I think she is, she does not seem to be making good legal decisions.

Chad, btw, reportedly does not understand why he's sitting in jail, so he seems to think he did nothing wrong. Or nothing THAT wrong. (According to HTC and his sister-in-law) Yet he has accepted sitting in jail for years- perhaps he thinks the time for hiding bodies is a given anyway. And Chad follows his attorney's advice.

I can't figure out where this is going. My bet is Lori waives speedy trial and hopes to rejoin the trials. Then Chad objects, delays or waits until Lori loses her ability to make decisions again, then hops into his trial, blaming her.

MOO. MOC. (My Own Conjecture.)
 
Ruminations said:
Maybe. Or maybe not.

The trials were not actually severed until just yesterday. And she can waive her right to a speedy trial at any time before it. She has 4 weeks.
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Why didn't she waive a speedy trial in the first place? Perhaps she's convinced she will be acquitted, either through the legal process or through an act of god.

Her lawyers will invoke her mental health only in the sentencing phase.
 
indicolite22 said:
Why didn't she waive a speedy trial in the first place? Perhaps she's convinced she will be acquitted, either through the legal process or through an act of god.

Her lawyers will invoke her mental health only in the sentencing phase.
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Well, because she didn't have to. The judge was adamant about the joint trial.

At least as I am speculating.

Your theories are different.

Obviously, we don't know which of us is right, if indeed either of us are.

I am on the edge of my seat waiting for this to unfold. It's great to swap ideas.

MOO.
 
My working theory on LVD's approach ....

...LVD is personally 100% confident she will be exonerated, and walk free, just as soon as her trial is over. But/and ....

1 Her attorneys do not share her optimism and have not told her this is likely. They see it as irrational.
2 She 100% believes it anyway.
3 This is a significant part of why her attorneys think she is incompetent -- the fact she thinks she cannot lose in court.
4 But because she believes she will surely walk, she wants no delay.
5 Her attorneys are - as they must - bowing to her wishes, while doing all they can to make it work the best way possible.
6 They are also noting their objection (to cover their azz), but since they represent her interests, are unlikely to share why she/they are doing any of what they are doing, as that would be a violation of privilege. And a bad legal approach too imo (better to leave the opposition puzzled over why you make the choices you make).

I don't think a delay is looming -- nor even being remotely considered -- because of the above.

And because of her insistence on speed and rights, they have gained the ability to force the state to work within the confines of the trial date straitjacket, so they will (rightly) try to strip the state of any ability to use evidence stashed by the state and not turned over already. (But this has no bearing on the quality of the evidence, only on their ability to get it tossed by the state's failure to disclose in a timely manner. Keeping on the existing schedule is a gun to the prosecutor's head, in a way.)

If she waived her right to a speedy trial, the trials could probably be conjoined again, but given what I see as her pov, I don't think this will happen. No chance imo.

PS - Mark Means, as her former attorney, should not be commenting and second-guessing. Not even a little. Zip it. As a result, I don't think he is a good attorney. I think he could/should be censured for his comments, inasmuch as she legally is still considered his client and his public comments might help the prosecution.
 
Ruminations said:
I expect it to be rather inconsequential TBH, but of course I could be wrong. I really can't imagine anything this hair can be that shifts the blame away from the defendants. I don't know what the evidence shows, but I predict it will show little that shifts the case.

Prior is getting too much credit for this; he was the one saying bring in the charges and let's go to trial. He just wants whatever gets the cases severed. He is not a mom, which is a harshly punished kind of murderer, and he may not have gotten his hands in the physical killing- although I'm inclined to think (without evidence) that he was more of a physical participant in Tylee's desecration if not her murder.

Wood basically told Summer that the evidence is stronger against Lori than Chad.

Chad seems more ready to turn against Lori than vice- versa.

Chad had the most to gain separating the cases, and Prior was willing to rush to trial or delay trial to achieve that.

What will be even more fascinating is if Lori changes her mind on speedy trial. She gives up that long shot appeal reason, but gains more ability to counter Chad's claims. She would have to be able to anticipate that Chad will blame her for the murders, though. I'm not sure her of ability to realistically predict Chad's behavior.

MOO
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Since they are no longer co-defendants could they now be supoenaed to testify against each other in court?
 
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Ruminations said:
That suggests that the evidence inculpates, doesn't it?

I wonder what it is.

Hints:

Lori's attorneys want it excluded all together, having seen it.
Chad's attorney wants to have his experts analyze it, but it seems like severing trials was the goal.
The prosecution was scheduling trials before it even came to light, so it seems rather unimportant to them.

In addition, it is becoming clearer that Lori's attorneys are not in agreement with her decision to assert her right to a speedy trial. That suggests that the rush causes more harm than the new evidence.

(Tangental thought to the above: Lori's attorneys are hinting that they dispute her competence but respect the court's determination of competence. They are also saying that Lori is making decisions against their advice. In my opinion, they are implying that Lori knows their role, and is considering, then rejecting, their advice. If that is what's going on, she is competent IMO; poor judgement is not the same as incompetence. If the attorneys are asserting Lori is not competent, they should have said she doesn't comprehend that their role, not that they respect her decision against their advice.)

I guess it's not just the evidence I wonder about.

I wonder if the trial will happen in April.

I think the prosecution is ready.

Chad is delaying and severing with the help of his attorney. The recent changes favor Chad a lot.

If Lori's judgement improves, she might waive her right to a speedy trial after all to join the trial again.

If she goes to trial first I wonder if she will turn on Chad. She should. (I think she is guilty but I also agree Chad manipulated her; maybe she could convince someone more charitable that it's all Chad's fault.) But she hasn't telegraphed a strategy like Chad has- by having kids claim he was framed and having his attorney say he has a diametrically opposed defense strategy. If she says Jesus is cool with my actions but I understand the State of Idaho is not, she is basically confessing. So what is her strategy?

If she prefers trial with Chad (and she reportedly does) what does that say about what her strategy is? The same confession above, but with Chad there to agree this was for Jesus? Or the I was manipulated by Chad defense but with him there to---what?---confirm he did manipulate her?

Wouldn't that be easier to pull off without him around to deny it or even around to sit at a table making indignant faces, modeled by his lawyer?

I'm not getting Lori's strategy at all. I do think she is competent because she is reportedly considering and rejecting advice, which her lawyers "respect." They say there are other opinions about her competence, but they are not expressing with exasperation that she is not really making decisions at all.

But, competent as I think she is, she does not seem to be making good legal decisions.

Chad, btw, reportedly does not understand why he's sitting in jail, so he seems to think he did nothing wrong. Or nothing THAT wrong. (According to HTC and his sister-in-law) Yet he has accepted sitting in jail for years- perhaps he thinks the time for hiding bodies is a given anyway. And Chad follows his attorney's advice.

I can't figure out where this is going. My bet is Lori waives speedy trial and hopes to rejoin the trials. Then Chad objects, delays or waits until Lori loses her ability to make decisions again, then hops into his trial, blaming her.

MOO. MOC. (My Own Conjecture.)
Click to expand...
Since Lori seems to be ignoring her attorney’s advice I wonder if she’ll insist on taking the stand at trial, like Murdough did. Should that happen it will be a similar train wreck for the defense. Well worth watching. If only they would televise it…
 
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