ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #70

[Cool Cats]

If the defense is laying the groundwork that LVD is mentally ill, then I suppose that means all the others in their group are also suffering from mental illness (LVD is just worse)??

Then the judge could take that into consideration during sentencing if found guilty. She would be sentenced and receive treatment in prison.

Another consideration is not just "is she mentally ill" but was she mentally ill at the time she committed her crimes?

Being mentally ill now only affects her ability to assist in her own defense and to understand her charges etc...
There would be extensive documentation from her prior mental health inpatient treatment, showing she was ready for her trial.

Section 18-207 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 2
PERSONS LIABLE, PRINCIPALS AND ACCESSORIES

18-207. MENTAL CONDITION NOT A DEFENSE — PROVISION FOR TREATMENT DURING INCARCERATION — RECEPTION OF EVIDENCE — NOTICE AND APPOINTMENT OF EXPERT EXAMINERS.

(1) Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct.

 

[fred&edna]

I have frequently had this same discussion regarding religious beliefs and mental illness with several people. Where is the line? Millions of people have religious beliefs, but they are not all mentally ill. And does it matter if LVD is "mentally ill"? She is still the same person, with a flawed belief system, that condones killing children. Which is not acceptable.

However, I think she saw JJ and Tylee as inconvenient. I don't believe that LVD is mentally ill at all. She wanted to keep their money.

I T A

 

[fred&edna]

I've never believed she was mentally ill. 'Never thought it would be part of any defense argument. My post was just jumping off another person's post (which I didn't quote but likely should have, lol).

 

[wnk]

I have not seen any evidence of a conspiracy to kill the kids and plenty of circumstantial evidence that this was Alex acting alone or possibly with Chad.

But to believe AC and/or CD were acting alone (not conspiring with LVD), the jury would have to believe that LVD honestly thought AC and/or CD hid the kids away somewhere for their own safety AND YET for some reason she did not have the normal, rational, human (not to mention maternal!) reactions of shock, horror, and thirst for justice when it became clear that that was factually NOT true.

I can't see anyone truly believing that after hearing that phone conversation with Colby they played today.

 

[KonaHonu]

But to believe AC and/or CD were acting alone (not conspiring with LVD), the jury would have to believe that LVD honestly thought AC and/or CD hid the kids away somewhere for their own safety AND YET for some reason she did not have the normal, rational, human (not to mention maternal!) reactions of shock, horror, and thirst for justice when it became clear that that was factually NOT true.

I can't see anyone truly believing that after hearing that phone conversation with Colby they played today.

It is possible that AC and CD told her the kids were safe and stashed away somewhere. I think LV would believe anything CD told her.

ETA: I should be clear that if she did not conspire she was still an accessory after the fact. I also think she did conspire. I'm just saying that so far I have seen very little evidence presented by the prosecutors.

 

[nodamselindistress]

We have not heard Cell Phone evidence yet, I am hoping there is something concrete in texts, although I am sure they were in "code". I am going to wait and hear all the evidence before I decide!

 

[BUF]

But to believe AC and/or CD were acting alone (not conspiring with LVD), the jury would have to believe that LVD honestly thought AC and/or CD hid the kids away somewhere for their own safety AND YET for some reason she did not have the normal, rational, human (not to mention maternal!) reactions of shock, horror, and thirst for justice when it became clear that that was factually NOT true.

I can't see anyone truly believing that after hearing that phone conversation with Colby they played today.

Yes … and we only ‘read’ that jail house conversation. I’m sure when we ‘hear’ it (it should be posted soon) it will be even worse.

Lori wouldn’t even have the video engaged during this call.

 

[SteveS]

If the defense is laying the groundwork that LVD is mentally ill, then I suppose that means all the others in their group are also suffering from mental illness (LVD is just worse)??

As this has been unfolding, my sense of the defense's thinking is more about them using the talking points of
(a) she didn't actually kill (or intend to kill) anyone,
(b) the others did things she did not expect or ask for, or have control over, and
(c) once done, she was deceived into (and, had honestly adopted) weird beliefs telling her that the kids were not truly hurt.

I don't think any of that is what really happened - but I think that's how the defense will argue for the jury to see it.

 

[nodamselindistress]

If I recall correctly, LVD's original reason for "the kids are in hiding" was because (according to LVD) Kay was threatening her and going to kidnap JJ. I think we all know that was a bunch of baloney by now. LVD tells MG she is going to give JJ back to Kay then within a few weeks Kay is going to kidnap him? Makes no sense!!!

Therefore, the original reason to disappear the kids was untrue so there was no reason for LVD to ask CD and AC help in hiding them.

 

[SteveS]

So far there has been a paucity of evidence (concerning before or during the 3 murders) showing Lori to be involved, or conspiring.

Being involved in cover up afterwards? Yes. Benefiting financially afterwards in an illegal way? Yes. Perhaps being involved re Charles death? Yes. BUT she has been charged with NONE of that in this trial.

But this is supposed to last another 5-6 weeks, so it would stand to reason they have MUCH evidence still ahead to show such things. Or at least I hope they do.

 

[mickey2942]

MG's testimony, when LVD wanted her to lie to LEO that JJ was at her home, is a problem for LVD. That means, she was conspiring to hide where JJ was to LEO. And that is where MG decided to draw her line in the sand.

 

[SteveS]

I have frequently had this same discussion regarding religious beliefs and mental illness with several people. Where is the line? Millions of people have religious beliefs, but they are not all mentally ill. And does it matter if LVD is "mentally ill"? She is still the same person, with a flawed belief system, that condones killing children. Which is not acceptable.

However, I think she saw JJ and Tylee as inconvenient. I don't believe that LVD is mentally ill at all. She wanted to keep their money.

"Where is the line?"

I think that's fairly easy. The "line" is whether what you DID is legal or illegal to do. That's the criteria that is practical and clearly distinguishable is also the fairest and easiest.

It's a BAD (and unconstitutional) idea to distinguish and then prosecute for "wrong" beliefs, because
a - you can't ever know what another person really thinks/believes, and
b - in a pluralistic society, who has the moral right to say which beliefs are "wrong"? We all think "my idea" is the right one.

BUT - you can punish what is DONE that is wrong. For example, it doesn't matter what Chad/Lori/etc thought, but only that they murdered a bunch of people. It's what they did, not what they thought, that they deserve to be put away for.

 

[Gardenista]

 

[Cool Cats]

‘You Ripped My Heart Out’: Jury Hears Jail Phone Call Between ‘Doomsday Mom’ and Surviving Son

An Idaho jury took in testimony from Colby Ryan, who wept and avoided eye contact with his mother, Lori Vallow, accused of a conspiracy to murder his siblings

www.yahoo.com

DAY 11 | LIVE UPDATES: Jury hears about 46 guns, bank finances, a gut-wrenching jail call and more during Daybell trial - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE LORI VALLOW DAYBELL TRIAL 4:09 p.m. Three more sketches from the trial today. Zulema Pastenes, Rexburg Det. Chuck Kunsaitis and Social Security Agent Mark Saari. 3:28 p.m. Court is dismissed. 3:21 p.m. Lots of bank documents being discussed. Boyce calls for a sidebar...

www.eastidahonews.com

 

[BUF]

Thank you for posting this. This is hard to hear imo, sounds like sniffling and key punching in it. I’m guessing this is from the courtroom recording. Maybe a better one of just the recorded conversation will also be posted.

 

[Luna20]

Wow, it’s so raw.

 

[AngTxGal]

I have frequently had this same discussion regarding religious beliefs and mental illness with several people. Where is the line? Millions of people have religious beliefs, but they are not all mentally ill. And does it matter if LVD is "mentally ill"? She is still the same person, with a flawed belief system, that condones killing children. Which is not acceptable.

However, I think she saw JJ and Tylee as inconvenient. I don't believe that LVD is mentally ill at all. She wanted to keep their money.

I do not know if LVD is mentally ill.
But…
If she was ‘normal’ before she met Chad
And if after meeting Chat she change in a way that led to deaths
Then just maybe Chad caused her to become a murderer?
If she breaks out of that state and comes back to normal- and realizes what she has done- and how her children have suffered and died, and all of the loss that has taken place…She may then very well become certifiably nuts.

It is possible she was capable of murder before she met Chad. It is possible she killed JR.

I do not know- I can’t say I understand her state of mind at all. She seems off her rocker, a french fry or two shy of a happy meal, not the sharpest pencil in the box.

As Idaho has no insanity defense- her options are limited.
She is lucky the DP is off the table.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I do not know if LVD is mentally ill.
But…
If she was ‘normal’ before she met Chad
And if after meeting Chat she change in a way that led to deaths
Then just maybe Chad caused her to become a murderer?
If she breaks out of that state and comes back to normal- and realizes what she has done- and how her children have suffered and died, and all of the loss that has taken place…She may then very well become certifiably nuts.

It is possible she was capable of murder before she met Chad. It is possible she killed JR.

I do not know- I can’t say I understand her state of mind at all. She seems off her rocker, a french fry or two shy of a happy meal, not the sharpest pencil in the box.

As Idaho has no insanity defense- her options are limited.
She is lucky the DP is off the table.

JMO

I think it was "The Perfect Storm."

Chad and Lori feeding off of each other.

Note all the compliments Chad pays her. It takes 2 to tango and these 2 together gave each other the nerve and reassurance to cross that unthinkable line.

 

[AngTxGal]

Thank you for posting this. This is hard to hear imo, sounds like sniffling and key punching in it. I’m guessing this is from the courtroom recording. Maybe a better one of just the recorded conversation will also be posted.

Colby’s heartfelt call and words, and then Lori’s laugh is beyond sick.

JMO

 

[CSIDreamer]

"They LOVE ME, and they are fine."

I could puke.